Desperately need see-saw mod

[Buzzkill]

Everytime I crash, however slight it seems the cnc see-saw arms break. I mean, shouldn't a linkage break before a metal part? Those dang little screws strip out of the see-saw or the see-saw bends right at the screw that holds the ball link on. How hard could it be for Gaui to use quality metal that's stronger than plastic? The rotor grip scres seem to be made of the same cheap metal because they always bend in a crash (at least one of them) so does one or both cnc see-saws.

If any of you has the knowledge and skills to make a see-saw that is stronger than plastic links please let me know. I had a very very mild crash today (10-15 mph winds) and sure enough, one broken see-saw and one bent main grip screw.

Here's a clip of the crash, wind caught the nose and stopped it cold!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct5mmRlJyqE

[choppersuey]

Buzz, I have been looking into this. seems they shaved so much off the "CNC" version just to make it look cool. But they could have left much more material . I am already thinking maybe the Plastic ones are better then the CNC until GAUI beefs these up , there design must be changed .

I am also looking at Tail's slider control arm the toy plastic one.
seems a easy job on that one. to make a aluminum version but more like new tr ex type were its just a hole that slides over sliders ball.

anyway ill keep you tunned if i have success machining new types of tail's slider control arm and beefy see saws on head.

sorry i cant help right now but i am working on it. I really do hope Gaui wakes up and makes beefy see saws, tell then maybe go threw plastic since they are cheaper. like 12 bucks cheaper :wow2:

[Buzzkill]

Cool, I didn't know they made plastic ones.

[rotorhead58d]

buzz, i got a bag of 100 grip screws from www.grainger.com (http://www.grainger.com) $3.99 it's been a while since i've trashed a set of seesaw arms, but i have my extra set standing by. also, i used the aluminum slider off of my microheli tail(trashed) and used the cf gaui sides. i had to shave a little bit off of the brass spacer where it bolts to the mount, but no biggie. so far, so good.:thumbup:

[choppersuey]

OK I toke a seesaw apart , dang the brass spacer between bearings is tiny winny LOL

anyway might be in luck I think if a 5/32 end mill will step bore the bearing holes then it wont be that hard to make custom seesaw's.

because i would not bother trying to bore the holes (take to long) .

anyway there is a step in middle of bore to keep bearings from flying off .

a Note on ball screw , try use Screws for Swash plate they are longer.
see photo , the the two shorter ones are from seesaw the top one is swash plate . and luckily they sell a ball set for swash. 203571

[Buzzkill]

The swash ball is a good idea. Is there enough room for a nut behind the see-saw arm with a swash ball? That might beef it up a bit, at least it would stop the screw from pulling out.

[dazzla777]

Hi Buzz,

I had similar problems and to get round it used the tail blade grip screws and bolt from a microheli tail on the see saw arms, the fit fine and get round the problem. I'm trying to find out what size these screws and bolts are so can buy some more (fortunatley I had 2 x micro heli tails so was able to use the screws and bolts from one of them, but it wouldnt be practical to buy a new microheli tail everytime to resolve the issue!

hope this helps

Regards

Dazza

[stoatnchips]

Dazza,

I'm fairly sure its a standard M1.4x0.30 - EDIT see choppersuey's correction below!! thread on the bolts, just choose from posi/slotted countersunk machine screws in whatever length you want. I usually use AHC because they are 4 mins drive from me but just google "M1.6 countersunk bolt" there are a few suppliers in the UK and some will also supply M1.4x0.30 bolts used on the central boom.

Buzz,

This is a serious problem, while you were away its been mentioned several times by different people.... so... while i'm on my 'Soapbox'... what are the realistic chances of Gaui looking at this problem?? Sorry can't do CAD, so here's some powerpoint drawings... maybe we should email Paul/Michael at Gaui and ask them to look at a redesign? Whats it really gunna add to the weight... 0.3 - 0.5 grams per arm... ok so there may also be a very tiny drop off in performance. But us mear mortals would prefer stronger arms and would not even notice the perfomance change.

Stoat

[choppersuey]

NO size is M1.4 I have 1.6 they don't fit .

biggest problem is finding the screws with Phillips. easy to find 1.4 screws but most are slotted Cheese. the Nuts can be found. http://www.nutty.com/cgi-bin/Shopper.exe?preadd=action&key=0010-MHN1.4


if You are in England your in luck I found one company that even has socket cap screws in 1.4 http://www.bolts-nuts-washers.com/micro%20fasteners.htm

Yes even Gaui Tail blade screw is better length and you have space for a nut as well.
added weight (with nut) might slow cyclic alittle. so your 3D might suffer :O LOL


Hey If you guys have contact with Gaui , also ask them to make screws longer by about 0.5mm .
actualy they need to lengthen screws at SIX points on this heli . the two on the see saw , two on tail blade grips, 1 end of Mixing arms . these screws are too short and waiting to blow out. this might be the first suggestion , which is very easy to fix.

in fact they could just sell us the longer screws simple bag of (6) screws. I would be upp for that and should not take long for them (Gaui) to get that going. or at least a 3rd party , Like Ready Heli sells the beter Blade grip retainer bolts.

[stoatnchips]

Thanks for the heads up on the bolt size... i'll try and get some next week. As far as contact with Gaui goes, i just complained about a poorley made upper frame a while back and they were very helpful and sent a complete replacement frame set to me as a replacement!! Kept asking me if there was anything else they could do... so i emailed them the sketch above about an hour ago and asked for a re-design... bit cheeky i know, but if you don't ask.. you don't get ;) I think the arm would work fine if the threaded hole was 1mm thicker... i can't find a spanner for M1.4 nuts anywhere!!

[choppersuey]

LOL I cant find for my 1.6 :) the 1.4 would be even worse :O


pliers Ouch !!! Man's gotta do what he's gotta do.

hmm OK I guess we will have to flood the contact source with suggestions to improve see saw and I still want longer screws for the other six points. one of my mixer arm's ball is hanging by a thread (pun intended) .

[sbmon]

I too just had a crash that stripped out the little seasaw arms. What a pain the new ones are like $16. If gaui were serious about adressing this problem I think they should consider a completely different head design without these small fragile arms. Even if the head comes out 15-30 grams heavier I wouldn't mind if it meant better durability.

[choppersuey]

THe listing looks good. I hope can aTtain. seems must order threw LHS or something.

http://www.nwsl.com/Brochures/10105br-v0611.pdf

Model Trains !

www.nwsl.com (http://www.nwsl.com)

RE EDIT one can order direct over the phone or by mail

[stoatnchips]

choppersuey... not quite sure whatcha sayin here.. but i bet its useful going on your other posts;)

As far as flooding Gaui with emails... lets see if Gaui respond to my email from earlier, its far better to build a happy relationship with a company than base it on complaints! (give it a couple of days)... If not, then all visitors to this post will be urged to send an email to:

gaui@gaui.com.tw

...include a link to this post and tell them YOU want stronger mixer/see saw arms too!!

I'm sure they will take action at this point... If not, we can always email K&T and ask them to look at it! ;)

Anyway... NO action yet, lets give Gaui some time to look into this.

Slightly off the thread, but i'm a little in awe of the situation... This a social networking utility for 200 owners and in the last 48 hours we have managed to talk Mike into addressing the damper issue and ask Gaui to look at the design of these arms... "Power to the Forum!!" If we find a mod or throw an idea or problem into the arena, we really have an oppourtunity to get something done about it:) :hug:

[rotorhead58d]

i would think that they(gaui) read these threads, no?

[choppersuey]

I am all for Gaui Improving Seesaw area. and that would take time because of redesign, reprogramming there CNC , then getting it out to market.

But in the mean time I think Longer screws Will help allot , and that might be much Faster to get to us, since they seem to have the longer screws (they use them on the swash ). so what would be great is if Gaui could package the longer swash screws In a pack of 8 . then sell those to us until the beefy seesaw's are available . but the screw pack would help improve other area's of the Heli that i see . and at same time start using longer screws for mounting the ball links to the lower mixing arm(2), the see saws(4), the tail blade grips(2), in there production line. These areas the screws are just alittle to short and will cause failure prematurely. unless I have a lemon, Which i don't think so.

also screw pack would still help later even after beefy see saw is out.
because it covers the other areas.

until then there is going to be a shortage of swash ball link pac shortly ;)

NO this is suggestion.

only complaint i have is better manual and documentation.
the manual for the first 100 is great, then after that it went down hill .
the 200 has the most vague of all. Then again maybe we are suppose to read the others and put it together.


RE EDIT: Short answer in the areas I describe the screw does not fill the entire Tapped Boss area . so screw needs to be longer to fill the entire area or its going to pull out . Going buy what I learned way back , thread should always engage at least 1 1/2 times its diameter to hold and not strip out especially in soft material like aluminum.
so if 1.4mm is diameter the screw should engage into the aluminum 2.1mm . Or put a nut behind so then you get the distance needed for full strength. Right now the distance is not even 1:1 (will fail)

if could add Nuts in that screw pack that would be even better :Bang

I like this lil heli allot, just needs some tweaks
very nice design, especially considering its size.

[northcarolinadan]

yep, i did it too, read this thread and sure enough crashed the gaui and ripped one of the balls out of the mixer arm.:thumbdown:

+1 for the beefier arms..

[choppersuey]

OK guys my latest parts order came in , and in my shipment was 883503

I tell you what get that set. has Ten screws 1.4 that are longer then what is on Heli . so looks like GAUI already has gotten a answer

I am replacing all the short screws now ;)

Mine were from Readyheli. but there other other suppliers in US
so to be fair to them ill list other sources i know about in USA and have ordered various 200 parts.
All E rc
Helidirect
amain hobbies
Helihobby
RChobbysports
RCsupersales
Aeromicro

if you know others please share
now to figure out my new shaft collar(upper large) that is not the same as stock one .

[choppersuey]

Hope this works (it should).

Image of were i used them. My tail grips are MH , but if running GUI I would put them there too on the Ball links.

if this don't work ill have to get 1.4 mm nuts and install that too.
also would help if one ever striped out the hole, the Nut would take over. it seems to be protruding enough to get a nut on there.

this is about the closest i could get with camera. sorry not the greatest.

[psindrup]

Buzz, I have been looking into this. seems they shaved so much off the "CNC" version just to make it look cool. But they could have left much more material . I am already thinking maybe the Plastic ones are better then the CNC until GAUI beefs these up , there design must be changed .

Is there a plastic version of the arms available?

Peter

[psindrup]

I tell you what get that set. has Ten screws 1.4 that are longer then what is on Heli . so looks like GAUI already has gotten a answer

I am replacing all the short screws now ;)


You are right - absolutely! :thumbup:

Just went trough my spare parts - had the part number "in stock" and the screws are definitely longer than the ones on the heli.

Any crash experience with the longer screws during a crash?

Peter

[knucklesdragon]

Is there a plastic version of the arms available?

Peter

Yes, they are for the EP100 it is Gaui part number: 203040

I think there was another thread on this subject, because someone else pointed out this part set. Note that it also comes with a .89mm allen wrench for the flybar set screws.

It kind of sucks that these come with all this extra stuff which drives the price up to $6, but I guess $6 a crash is better than $17 (not including all the other stuff thats gonna break in a crash)

I've got the plastic ones on now, and really notice little if any difference. If you decide to use the plastic ones be sure to use the brass bushing supplied it acts as a bearing.

I am hoping these plastic ones will be a nice weak link in the system and break before some other more expensive part (blade grips for example)

If stronger see-saw arms are made, then I feel the arm on the blade grip will also have to be beefed up. If you get a stronger see-saw then you will be bending $25 blade grips in every crash. My last crash bent my see-saws and my blade grips
($42 Ker-Ching!!!)

I have new sets of both plastic and metal see-saw arms, if it is nice this weekend I will try to swap them back and forth and fly a few batteries back to back with each to see if I notice any difference.
I would also like to see how the plastic ones do in a crash, but I am quite ready to go kamikaze for the cause... Who knows though, my chances of crashing on any given day are pretty good...

[psindrup]

Thanks

I actually managed to "repair" my bend arms, after the (short) screws where yanked out during a mild crash.

I bend the arms back, and squeezed the part around the hole back in shape.
Next step is to replace all the very short screws with the one from the spare bag.

Peter

[Future1]

I would also like to see how the plastic ones do in a crash

Not well at all, worse than the metal mixer arms, both balls broke off one of mine in a single crash. I'm going to make some mixer arms from servo horns.

[freakinnovice]

What about the arms from small.planes?