Blade 400 9T update

[sparx-]

Well, FINALLY after what was the worst week of work I have had in awhile, I got to put 2 packs through the my Blade 400 running the stock motor with a 9T pinion and some 325mm blades. Well, needless to say, I will NOT be putting the 10T back on. I am getting 2700-2800rpm. The heli is very repsonive yet very relaxing to fly. It does not sound like it is about to Explode from all those parts spinning so fast. I had no problem doing loops, flips, rolls and just about any other thing I threw at it.

IMHO, 95% of the people flying the B400 do not need to be using the 10T pinion.

The 9T pinion is a $3 part and takes 15mins MAX to change. I highly recommend anyone that is not doing "extreme" 3D to give it a shot.

SPaRX

[darkhawk22]

Thanks for the tip Sparx maybe i'll pick one up.

[HeliMix]

I looked at two LHS yesterday for one but they only had the 10. I'm going to have to order it online, but no biggie. Saves gas. ;)

[shutout31]

I've got the pinion, had it for weeks now but never had the chance to put it in. How hard is it to get the motor out to make the swap?

[eugenefelisco]

Sparx can I have the part number coz there are several 9T in my LHS. Got to be sure I don't want to waste $3.

[sparx-]

EFLH1409

Should say something to the effect of..... Blade 400 9T pinion on the package.

SPaRX

[LockMD]

Well, FINALLY after what was the worst week of work I have had in awhile, I got to put 2 packs through the my Blade 400 running the stock motor with a 9T pinion and some 325mm blades. Well, needless to say, I will NOT be putting the 10T back on. I am getting 2700-2800rpm. The heli is very repsonive yet very relaxing to fly. It does not sound like it is about to Explode from all those parts spinning so fast. I had no problem doing loops, flips, rolls and just about any other thing I threw at it.

IMHO, 95% of the people flying the B400 do not need to be using the 10T pinion.

The 9T pinion is a $3 part and takes 15mins MAX to change. I highly recommend anyone that is not doing "extreme" 3D to give it a shot.

SPaRX


Sparx, what does this do for you? Higher/lower head speed? if its higher, I'll be going to the LHS too :)

[sparx-]

Going from a 10T to a 9T will lower your RPM. If you are not doing "crack" 3D you do not need high headspeed. Further more, IMHO it is unsafe to be running the headspeeds that the 10T pinion is putting out. Plastic head and wood blades should not be run over 2800-2900 IMHO. And you do not need 3000rpm to perform basic 3D moves. If you are still learing ( learning to hover all sides, moving into Forward Flight, Inverted hovering, Backwards flight, Inverted circuits) then you do not need a 10T pinion. It does nothing but make learning harder.

SPaRX

[mupchu]

I've been running the 9t pinion for about a week and love it . . . can't speak for the mad 3Dzzz crowd but overall everything is much smoother. I also agree plastic and wood blades should never go over 2800-2900 rpm . . . that is just asking for trouble.

What is the throttle curve you are using Sparx?

[sparx-]

100-95-90-95-100

[eugenefelisco]

Sparx what are the actual number we are talking about here. Give us all headspeeds in 11-10-9 so everyone can see. For me it makes alot of sense running lower headspeed for safety and extended flight times. Oh how about flight handling and stability would there be noticable difference. And what about punch-out it will decrease also right. And wind resistance also will have effects to this.
Can I also ask some trex owners to share their insight to this, I know alot of people did this experiment already. I read a thread that they successfully gone down 2500rpm range or lower.

[sparx-]

Sparx what are the actual number we are talking about here. Give us all headspeeds in 11-10-9 so everyone can see.

I am not sure what you are asking here.

For me it makes alot of sense running lower headspeed for safety and extended flight times. Oh how about flight handling and stability would there be noticable difference.

Stability is subjective. What one person considers Stable others do not. For example. Running 3200 rpm it is easier to hover a heli. This is because it is harder to move a disc out of it spinning plane the faster it moves. But with the increased headspeed, all of your controls become stronger due to the increased lift created by the higher RPM. This means that when you give cyclic input, the heli will react A LOT faster at higher RPM then it would at Lower RPM. So some will say that higher RPM is more stable because it "locks into a hover" while others will say it is more unstable because your cyclic and collective become "twitchy" and require smaller movements to move the heli about smoothly.


And what about punch-out it will decrease also right.

Of course the "punch-out" will change as RPM changes. The higher the headpseed, the faster it will "punch-out". But hard "punch-outs" are not required for basic 3D. With the 9T pinion, my B400 is "punching-out" pretty darn hard.

And wind resistance also will have effects to this.

I am sorry, but I am not the person to ask of this. I do not feel that RPM should effect your ability to fly in wind. That is a skill you need to learn. I fly my helis at varying RPMs all the time depending on what I am doing. Wind does not effect my RPM selection. I can fly in 15mph winds just as well at 2400 rpm as I can at 2800rpm. It all comes down to managing your collective properly and reacting properly to the wind effects on your heli.

Can I also ask some trex owners to share their insight to this,.

Not sure why a Trex owner would be needed for this? I have owned and flown Trex's. They are no different in these aspects then any other 450 class heli.

I know alot of people did this experiment already. I read a thread that they successfully gone down 2500rpm range or lower

If the heli will lift off the ground it will fly. Depending on weight and blades, most helis will come off the ground with 1800-2000rpm and can be flown around at those RPMs. As I stated above, I vary my RPMs depending on what I am doing. If I am flying close in stuff, slow circuits in a 20 foot box under 10 foot off the ground, I will pull my headspeed down to 2400-2500 rpm. Flying circuits I might keep the RPM in that same range. You can loop and roll at that RPM range with no problems. When I want to "kick it up a knotch" then I will go to 2700-2800 rpm. Fast circuits, flips or some "hard" flying.

SPaRX

[LockMD]

Going from a 10T to a 9T will lower your RPM. If you are not doing "crack" 3D you do not need high headspeed. Further more, IMHO it is unsafe to be running the headspeeds that the 10T pinion is putting out. Plastic head and wood blades should not be run over 2800-2900 IMHO. And you do not need 3000rpm to perform basic 3D moves. If you are still learing ( learning to hover all sides, moving into Forward Flight, Inverted hovering, Backwards flight, Inverted circuits) then you do not need a 10T pinion. It does nothing but make learning harder.

SPaRX


To me, stable = head speed, I can puch out and come down slow or fast with little affects from the winds around 20mph......so I will stick with the stock 10t for now

[sparx-]

To me, stable = head speed, I can puch out and come down slow or fast with little affects from the winds around 20mph......so I will stick with the stock 10t for now


As I said, stability is subjective. But at least understand why things are as they are :). You heli is effected no different in 20mph winds at 2500rpm then it is at 3000rpm. The difference is in how much action is needed to counter the wind. With the higher headspeed, it does not require you to change your collective as much as it does when running a slower headspeed.

I am not going to convince you, so it is up to you. You either try it or you don't. It is up to you. This is a hobby, it is all about having fun. To me, chasing a heli around at high headspeed is not fun.

SPaRX

[LockMD]

As I said, stability is subjective. But at least understand why things are as they are :). You heli is effected no different in 20mph winds at 2500rpm then it is at 3000rpm. The difference is in how much action is needed to counter the wind. With the higher headspeed, it does not require you to change your collective as much as it does when running a slower headspeed.

I am not going to convince you, so it is up to you. You either try it or you don't. It is up to you. This is a hobby, it is all about having fun. To me, chasing a heli around at high headspeed is not fun.

SPaRX


Yup all here for fun and not arguing.....but your statements counter each other 1st you agree and say dont need much collective to battle the winds then you say chasing around at high head speeds.....there is no chasing cause of the high head speeds theres not much collective needed.....


Anyways I appreciate what you do for me and ALL noobs.....I will stick with high head speeds for now. Thanks.

[sparx-]

Yup all here for fun and not arguing.....but your statements counter each other 1st you agree and say dont need much collective to battle the winds then you say chasing around at high head speeds.....there is no chasing cause of the high head speeds theres not much collective needed.....


Anyways I appreciate what you do for me and ALL noobs.....I will stick with high head speeds for now. Thanks.

My chasing the heli around was not referring to flying in the wind, but flying in general.

Lock, I am not going to tell anyone they should or should not do something. I only offer my advice and personal experiences. But I will say this, everything I am referring to in my posts about higher headspeeds I can see in all of the videos you post. You have trouble maintaining a consistant altitude while flying around. You are constantly rocking on your Rotors from over-correction. These things can all be attributed it to that high headspeed you are running.

Please do not take this personally, just making observations.


SPaRX

[eugenefelisco]

Sparx that makes alot of sense. I'm also getting Lock's point of view. In our area is sometimes gusty winds like Lock (20mph gust). If that(20mph) happens I will go to the gym and change 9T for slower headspeeds. Its just preferrence and situational just my opinion. But really it doesn't hurt to know things Right Sparx and LockMD.

[mupchu]

I would say the biggest reason not to go with the 10t is because of the plastic head and the wood blades. I just don't feel comfortable, esp when the blades i run are only rated for 2800rpm (align pro woodies). To each his own though.

I also found that running at 2800 is a happier speed for me, I fly much more comfortably and the collective is less twitchy. I am not into the mad 3dz besides the occasional flip i just don't find the need such speed.

Take this with a grain of salt though . . .

I was crashing fairly often and I was always fighting the heli to do circuits.

Then I upgrade to hb-65's on the cyclic, did the chinese weight mod on my tail, and went to KB tail blades. I also put in the 9t pinion in at the same time. Everything else stock including the stock gyro.

I've been flying that for about 2 weeks, without any crashes . . . and I feel in control of the heli (not the other way around). Even my wife notices how much better it flies now.

I can't say it was the pinion, or the servo's but I am really happy with the setup now. Longer run times to boot. I would suggest anyone try it unless you are already doing mad 3d, then again no one's going to try mad 3d on woodies either. however your milage may vary . . . .

[Gsquared08]

100-95-90-95-100

Is this for "normal" setup and are these good settings for hover only? My DX6i's factory default setup has the "normal" curve in a 3 point configuration and since I just got it, I don't even know where to change those throttle curve numbers. All I see is a graph and selection line to change how many points. I'm going to get the 9T today and would like to know if there is a video on changing it out.

Ty,
g2

[mupchu]

I forget what the default settings were, but pretty sure it was a little higher in the middle, and that is the idle up curve. The normal curve is different, you might want to look at finless's video on throttle curves in the trex 450 build section to get an idea how to setup normal flight. I can;t recall what I have mine set to right now.

Not sure there is a video on how to change out the pinion. Removing the motor from the frame was the toughest part for me.

[stroker 1500]

I would say the biggest reason not to go with the 10t is because of the plastic head and the wood blades. I just don't feel comfortable, esp when the blades i run are only rated for 2800rpm (align pro woodies). To each his own though.

I also found that running at 2800 is a happier speed for me, I fly much more comfortably and the collective is less twitchy. I am not into the mad 3dz besides the occasional flip i just don't find the need such speed.

Take this with a grain of salt though . . .

I was crashing fairly often and I was always fighting the heli to do circuits.

Then I upgrade to hb-65's on the cyclic, did the chinese weight mod on my tail, and went to KB tail blades. I also put in the 9t pinion in at the same time. Everything else stock including the stock gyro.

I've been flying that for about 2 weeks, without any crashes . . . and I feel in control of the heli (not the other way around). Even my wife notices how much better it flies now.

I can't say it was the pinion, or the servo's but I am really happy with the setup now. Longer run times to boot. I would suggest anyone try it unless you are already doing mad 3d, then again no one's going to try mad 3d on woodies either. however your milage may vary . . . .
What you are feeling is the servos..

[sparx-]

What you are feeling is the servos..

Not likely. It is more the pinion then the servos.

SpaRX

[stroker 1500]

Not likely. It is more the pinion then the servos.

SpaRX
I doubt that.. Going to the 65hb's where night and day difference without a change in the head speed for me. I'm running a 12t with the align 430l and wouldn't go back to anything else :thumbup:

[LockMD]

I doubt that.. Going to the 65hb's where night and day difference without a change in the head speed for me. I'm running a 12t with the align 430l and wouldn't go back to anything else :thumbup:


12T?! Holly molly! if 10 is faster than 9, you must be screaming with a 12, what do you have your throttle curve set as?

[sparx-]

The 430L is a lower kv motor. He is most likely getting around 2900-3000rpm.

I am curious stroker, have you ever flew a 450 heli at 2500-2700 rpm? Servos make a difference yes, but not as dramtic as you make it out.

SPaRX