The only flying I'll be doing for a while.

[sd0]

Well guys, for a combination of reasons, I probably will not get my B400 fixed for at least a couple of weeks. And now I am real gunshy of the 600, really don't wanny pop it's cherry, never been crashed. So I have been practicing a lot, I posted another thread about my frustations, with a video of me on G4 here it is http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=73930

Also here is the vid on it's own:

scrVSTlLY2A



I just don't understand why I can't get this stuff down for real. Maybe I am just trying too much too fast, I've only been flying since January. You guys are always cool to me, and some of you think I am better than you, but I do not think so. I just take more risks, and I probably should not. Maybe I should just slow down and keep on hovering away, but that gets so boring. I wish I had a little more patience, but I don't. I love this hobby and I love this website.

Anyway, sorry for ranting, and I hope you all are having more fun and better luck than I am.

I WILL BE BACK!

[sparx-]

I just don't understand why I can't get this stuff down for real. Maybe I am just trying too much too fast, I've only been flying since January.

You posted your own answer right there. You are trying too much too fast. You have to be regimented. Flying helis is all about muscle memory and reactions. These are things that are aquired with time and doing it over and over.

There is a method to this.

1. Hover all sides ( nose, tail, left, right)
2. Forward Flight. Circiuts and Figure 8s. Fast and slow flight. Small and large circuits. You can progress to this step before learning to hover nose in, but you MUST learn it before progressing further then this step.
3. Loops and Flips. You should be able to do them stationary and while in forward flight.
4. Rolls, both stationary and while in Forward flight. You should not try these until you have learned loops and flips.
5. Backwards flight. Circuits and Figure 8s. Same as forward flight.

These five steps will complete your Upright flying learning. Next progress to inverted. It is pretty much the same progression as upright flight.

6. Inverted hovering all sides.
7. Inverted forward flight.
8. Inverted Loops and Flips. Starting inverted and ending inverted
9. Inverted Rolls. Starting inverted and ending inverted.
10. Inverted Backwards flight.

You should NOT progess to the next step until you are COMPLETELY comfortable with the previous step. This is about getting past the "can I do this". So moving to the next step without feeling comfortable with the previous will only hold you back. Also, the previous step is needed because if you mess up the current step, you will need what you know to get you out of a bad situation. There is some logic to those steps. For instance, Flips. If you mess up a flip, you could very well end up nose-in. If you have not gotten comfortable with nose-in, then you will most likely "freak", panic or just flat out lose it.

You should NOT be doing things on the sim that you cannot do for real UNLESS it is in your current learnign step. This is not productive use of a Sim. You should be using the sim to acquire a new skill and then apply that ability to your real heli. You must treat the sim like your real heli. DO NOT FLY out of your skill level.

This is how I do it. You also need to have a method to your flying time. I break it down into a 3+ pack system. First pack of the day I do nothing but circuits. This gets me warmed up and in the groove. Depending on how I am flying, I might throw a few loops and rolls in to keep it interesting. Second pack is spent practicing all the previous steps I have already learned. YOU NEED to keep going back to keep those skills fresh. Practice some nose-in hovering. Practice flying at myself. Practice every thing I have already gotten down. Third pack is when I start trying new stuff I have learned on the Sim. I pick one and maybe two new things to practice depending on how complicated what I am trying is. I will spend the ENTIRE pack practicing these. Starting with pack 4, I will start mixing the new in with the old if I feel comfortable with the news things. If not, I will spend another pack practicing the new things and then try mixing it up on the next pack. I only use this system in my Learning phases. Some days I do not feel like learning or trying new thing, so i RESTRICT my flying to what I KNOW I can do. I also follow this method when flying on my SIM as well. Remember, treat the Sim as it is real.

The key here is to not try to much at a time. You will overload your circuits and it will do nothing but set you back.

One other thing I noticed in your video. You are using a nitro model that looks to be a 50size or bigger. This is not helping either. You need to select a model or modify a model that will fly as close to your real heli as possible. Bigger helis are more stable in real life and in the sim as well. So it does not good to train on a heli that is not like the one you are flying for real.

Hope this helps.

SPaRX

[sparx-]

One thing to note. Backwards and Inverted Backwards flight steps can be moved around a bit. You can move to those steps at any point after you have learned forward flight. The reason I have them at the end is to keep the flying interestings. Learning to loop and roll is more fun the learning to fly backwards. So this helps keep the "fun" factor.

SPaRX

[sparx-]

Another thing I just thought of too. You posted that video of a flight that you did not crash. But how many times flying the sim do you crash? Say you are flying for an hour. How many times in that hour do you crash flying like that? Everyone of those crashes = a crash with your real heli.

SPaRX

[sd0]

Sparx, thankyou for the very detailed response, I will try all of it, I don't always use that heli in the sim. I have a Trex 600 also, not just a B400. To answer your question about crashing in the sim, I don't crash a whole lot anymore, I can usually fly until the simulated fuel tank or battery runs out. I also fly the Trex 500/600 on the sim a lot, as you probably know there is not a B400 for G4, which is a shame. I just used the .90 for the vid so it would be easy to see on YT.

[sparx-]

You do not need a Blade400 model specifically. You just need to modify an existing model so it will perform the same. Change cyclic rates, collective rate, power rates and stability if availible. There is no Dragonus in Phoenix, so I use a modified TT 325E when I am practicing for my Dragonus. I have modified it so that it flies as close to my Dragonus as possible.

Also, the thing to remember is in the sim the "pucker" factor is not there. The first few times you flew your real heli, you legs and hands were probably shaking uncontrollably. First time you flew the sim, probably not. This "mental" factor never changes. You will have it with your real heli and not with the sim. This is why it is important to fly your sim like your real heli and not going outside of your abilities.

SPaRX

[cdh67]

Also, the thing to remember is in the sim the "pucker" factor is not there. The first few times you flew your real heli, you legs and hands were probably shaking uncontrollably. First time you flew the sim, probably not. This "mental" factor never changes. You will have it with your real heli and not with the sim. This is why it is important to fly your sim like your real heli and not going outside of your abilities.

SPaRX

I think the exact opposite, you need to fly your rc heli like the sim, if you let crashing scare you and it prevents you from trying something new,then were is the progresson? When I fly my blade, I could care less if I crash it, its just parts and a hour to fix it. The mental factor of crashing has to be erased from your mind. If you notice there is a lot of new young( 5years old)pilots that can 3D better then most pilots that have been for years. Its because they fly like they do on the sim, and heli manufactures are making helis that fly like the sim models. Look at a Trex 500, that heli is a crack flying heli. Its not graceful like a F3C machine but it can do some impressive 3D in the right hands. Forget the crashing part, its just part of flying helis. I got a Blade400 because parts were cheap, and I have three complete rebuilds in my box(minus electronics) for when I crash it. I really want a 90heli for many reasons, but not until I dont crash as often.I am at step 3 on your list and I can see them going by really fast, because of the sim. Inverted flight scares me the most. Helicopter are too much fun to not fly. I just need more batteries..... to addicting to wait for the battery to charge.

[HeliMix]

Sorry to hear sd0. We will all crash. We are not where you are yet but will be soon. Take your time, but don't let it stop you.

[sparx-]

I think the exact opposite, you need to fly your rc heli like the sim, if you let crashing scare you and it prevents you from trying something new,then were is the progresson? When I fly my blade, I could care less if I crash it, its just parts and a hour to fix it. The mental factor of crashing has to be erased from your mind. If you notice there is a lot of new young( 5years old)pilots that can 3D better then most pilots that have been for years. Its because they fly like they do on the sim, and heli manufactures are making helis that fly like the sim models. Look at a Trex 500, that heli is a crack flying heli. Its not graceful like a F3C machine but it can do some impressive 3D in the right hands. Forget the crashing part, its just part of flying helis. I got a Blade400 because parts were cheap, and I have three complete rebuilds in my box(minus electronics) for when I crash it. I really want a 90heli for many reasons, but not until I dont crash as often.I am at step 3 on your list and I can see them going by really fast, because of the sim. Inverted flight scares me the most. Helicopter are too much fun to not fly. I just need more batteries..... to addicting to wait for the battery to charge.

Can't say that I agree with that. Crashing happens, but it should not happen all the time. If you are crashing every 10-20 flights, then you are pushing beyond your abilities too much. Hey, don't get me wrong, I crashed with the best of them when I started too, till I realized that very thing. When I dialed it back and start not flying too far out of my abilities, I was crashing a lot less. Now I might go 50 flights between crashes and I am not flying conservative at all. I am jsut at the point now that I am able to pull out of bad moves because I took my time and progressed with a plan.

There are more reasons then what you stated as to why a 5 year old can fly better then some older flyers. Basically it is the "old dog new tricks" thing. Children can learn new things faster then adults. Their minds are like sponges at that age. It is not because they fly like they do on the sim. It is because the learned it on the sim first and then applied it to their real heli. They took the time to master the flying.

The Trex500 can be as graceful as any F3C machine. It all comes down to setup. It is just most people you see flying a Trex500 have it setup to do 3D. You could do a complete F3C routine on a 450 is you so desire and set it up do to it.

Yes, the sim will help you move through these steps faster, I will not disagree with that. The sim allowed me to progress faster then I was before I got it as well. What the sim does is allows you to be careless without concequence. You cannot do that with a real heli because there is a concequence, you crash and have to rebuild. With a sim, you crash and push a button. So it is easier to experiement in the sim and to learn from those experiements. Then once you have learned what you are practicing, you have the needed skill to do what you were working on, now it is just a matter of doing it on your real heli and being comfortable doing it.

SPaRX

[skigolfmike]

Sparx - I've heard of slightly different progressions on the sim. Some people think you should learn inverted flight before going to backwards flight. I think one of the hardest things to do in the sim is to have enough discipline to work on specific things and not just buzz around all over the place. However, doing a little buzzing around now and then is not a bad thing.

My sim practice is a mixture of working on specifics and just messing around. When I'm on the sim now I work on inverted hover and inverted flight. I also try to throw in backwards forward flight upright and inverted. I'm also working on flying the heli around doing slow piros and I've started working on piro flips, funnels and autos. I also keep working on tic-tocs, plus I try to do everything I know how to do at least once in a session. Lastly, I try to keep the sessions short, 20-30min max, to stay fresh.

sd0 - you are looking good on the sim and you are progressing really fast. That's great! I have AeroFly Pro Dlx, but I have flown the G4. IMHO, the G4 sim flies way easier than my heli does. In other words, G4 makes me look pretty good. What you are doing on the sim is not going to translate immediately to the heli. It's similar, but not the same.

Where the sim has really helps me is when I do get a little out of control, it helps me recognise what the heli is doing so I can recover before it turns into a lawn dart.

Keep at it and good luck getting a feathering shaft.

[mupchu]

I totally agree with Sparx, although I would probably add in slow in place piro's in there somewhere also. I practice those a lot and that has saved my bacon on more than one occasion.

I would also add, use Radd's basic principle . . .. you should always be in control of the heli - not the other way around. When you are trying FF, if you are having an issue with nose in (or 3/4 nose in) then I would recommend you practice nose in on the sim until you get it down. When you do it in real life, you might want to start in the nose in orientation and force yourself to become comfortable with it.

btw if you need feathering shafts, use the shafts from a trex (NOT the V2), takes a little modification but they work (actually work really well).