New Hacker A40-8L "Electric Turbine"

[dahld]

I've been flying lately my Logo 500 V-Bar with the new Hacker A40-8L (1300KV) "Electric Turbine" motor. It's working out pretty good!!

Set-up: Mod .7 gears with 12T pinion, 2200 headspeed, RotorTech 550's, 6S battery, Jazz 55 with heatsink installed. The outside air temp has been ranging between 80-90 degrees here in central California.

What a powerhouse for a 6S system! Flights are 5 min (to keep the battery under the 75-80% discharge rule), doing all the "standard 3D" stuff :YeaBaby: (massive collective pumps, stationary aileron and elevator tic-tocs, four point tic-tocs, supersonic hurricanes etc., etc.).

I've been checking real close the operating temp of the system, and have been pulling the canopy out on the field immediately after touchdown to get temp readings of the motor, ESC and battery. I've checked my temp gun against others, and it's been + or - 5 degrees, so these temps are approximate.

The motor has been running between 110-120 degrees, the ESC has been consistently in the 120-125 degree range, and the batteries (TP 5000 V2) 115-120 degrees. I've noticed as the outside air temp goes up or down 5-10 degrees day to day, the system temps vary as well. All and all very reasonable, considering the type of flying (hard 3D) being produced at those temps ;).

I'll summarize it this way; darn near the same (when it comes to the feel of available power), as my Logo 600 running an Actro 24-4, 19T pinion, 2200 headspeed, Radix 600's on 10S.

This is going to be a hard combination NOT to like :).

Take care, Dave Dahl.

[BruceW]

Any idea where and when we can pick one of these up? Oh ya, and cost?

[Big Fil]

Is the ET motor itself different than the regular A40-8L motor or is just the addition of the turbine cooling fan to that motor?

Also been curious, how does it sound? Does it sound anymore turbinesque?

[helicraze]

yes, the specs seem the same? Any close up pick of the motor?

[dahld]

Based on Hacker's and Aero-Model's web sites, the max power is up from 1100 to 2000 watts (too much of a change for just adding a cooling fan). I was told by Aero-Model / Hacker that the motor has important internal design and material changes, including the addition of the internal cooling.

I think the 2000 watt rating might be conservative. A Tango 45-10 has a rating of 2200 watts. My son and I have a lot of experience with the Tango 45-10 in a Logo-10 on 6S. The Hacker A40-8L (ET) on 6S in our Logo 500 (a heavier heli with a bigger disc) pulls through maneuvers with more authority than the Logo-10 ever did.

In the end I know the power ratings of motors are somewhat subjective in the real world, and depend on a lot of variables. Also our Logo 500 is a V-Bar and the Logo-10 is not, so that also makes a big difference. The comparison may not be very valid after all.

All that being said, the bottom line is it runs cool for the power it supplies, and the power is way up there for the size of the motor.

By the way, the kid in the picture is my 14 year old son Kyle, who is a WAY better pilot than I am :roll:.

Dave Dahl.


I (http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48090&stc=1&d=1210817812)IMG_5450.JPG (http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48091&stc=1&d=1210817812)IMG_5447.JPG (http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48092&stc=1&d=1210817812)MG_5451.JPG (http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48090&stc=1&d=1210817812)

[OICU812]

Dave I am suprised you are running a 12tooth, if the EL has the same band as the A40-8-8 which I am sure it may, then 13 tooth goverened to 72% on Jazz will yield a more powerfull and consistent power feel even through the sag. Maybe I am off on this one though but I know I run 13 as 12 was ok for 60% then it would taper off to much and couldn't maintain...Perhaps this EL is putting out alot better though,,, I'll have to give one a go me thinks.

[helicraze]

DAHLD, is this still a outrunner motor? Also is there 2 versions of the ET? 1100KV adn 1300KV?

[Eyon]

its an outrunner in a can :)

just the 1100kv version too

[dahld]

Yep, just like Eyon said. Two different motors, one 1100kv (-10) and the other 1300kv (-8), both out-runners enclosed in a "can" with a cooling "turbine" fan at the top blowing air down through the motor and out the bottom. Both are very powerful for their size, and run very cool relative to other motors producing the same power.

Both motors are rated at 2000 watts. But I have flown both, and I think the 2000 watt rating for both is conservative.

Yea, I know my opinion is suspect because of my association with Team Mikado USA and Aero-Model / Hacker Brushless, but for what it's worth, I say Hacker got it right this time. No doubt about it :thumbup:.

Take care, Dave Dahl.

[helicraze]

Thanks, but eyon said there is only one. When would you choose the 1300KV over the 1100KV?

[dahld]

I'm not an electric motor engineer, so what follows is strictly from an "end user's" perspective.

Variables...don't ya hate 'em. Let's say you want to run your heli at 2300 head speed. You could do that with the 1100kv motor using a 15 tooth pinion at about 70% ESC, or a 14 tooth at a much higher ESC % (85-90%or so), or the 1300kv with a 12 tooth at about 80% ESC, or a 13 tooth at a much lower ESC % (65-70% or so). So which is best?

I think each motor/ESC combo has what I call a "sweet spot". Where the ESC is running in the 70-85% power range, with a pinion size based on the motor's kv that puts your head speed where you want it.

So look at the extremes. If you're the super aggressive type and want to run your heli in the "insane" head speed range (I say for a logo 500 that's 2400+...but opinions vary), then the 1300 kv version would be best in order to keep everything around the "sweet spot". If you wanted to run a head speed in the 2100 range with the 1300kv, you couldn't do it (even with the 12 tooth, which is the smallest Mikado makes), and still be in the "sweet spot".

The bottom line in my opinion; the two motors over lap at 2300 head speed. At that head speed you can get in the "sweet spot" with the 1100kv using a 15T, or the 1300kv using a 12T. I've flown both as described, and the performance of the two motors in a Logo 500 is practically the same, with maybe a slight edge in holding head speed under loads going to the 1300kv. But both run very strong and cool as described.

If you want to run lower than 2300 head speed, get the 1100kv. If you want to run higher than 2300 head speed, the get the 1300kv (when they become available).

But don't think based on the above paragraph that the 1100kv is weak. The 1100kv with a 15T pinion @ 2300 head speed rocks!

Hope this (long) reply helps, Dave Dahl

[ecofan_]

Hi dahld,

After approx. 10 flights with my A-40 1100kv ET, i'm quite disappointed with the power.
here's my setup :
15 tooth HB .7 pinion, 550 rotortech mains and CC85HV with TP5000V2 packs.

The power is good, but not awesome. Had more power with my neumotors on the trex 600.

Maybe i've got something wrong ? even with a straight 100% throttle curve, the RPM in load isn't good.. Yes, it does handle 3D flights and all the now 'classic' stuff, but not with much power. (it bogs in piro tic tocs climbing, whereas my others helis don't !)

Also : the motor is really hot after a flight : about 140°F.

I'm gonna try another motor I thinK.

Nicolas

[zguy]

Hi Nicolas,

Just curious as to how many cycles are on your batteries? If this ET motor is capable of drawing more amps, then it could be pulling the voltage(head speed) down under load.
Also, the wider cord of the 560mm blades gives more collective "pop" than the 550mm's IMO.

I know many of us are interested in this ET motor and just want to get more information. Thanks!

[ecofan_]

hi,

My batteries are quite new, about 45 cycle one, and 30 the other. Those packs did rock HARD on the trex 600

Here's a video :

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7111396314589803176&q=nicolas+goyet&ei=8LWNSMqiMY6K2QKukqCBBQ

a vbar trex 600E.

Maybe 560 will give more pop, but the motor is already really HOT. It won't be safe.

Nicolas

[ecofan_]

Okay, so 10 flights more, everything is getting free and i've got more power, but that is not insane...

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-5563068923067406031

Check it out !

[BruceW]

Nice flying! But I see what you mean that it does not seem like "insane" power. Your helicopter is tuned up well and is a bit more agile than my flybar version but the power doesn't seem much different than my Hacker A40-10L-8 motor (non ET version).

How is the temperature of the ESC and motor now?

[ecofan_]

Hi,

Esc is cold (about 100)°F but motor is quite hot (about 150°F)

i've bought a mikado zpower motor, it is made to wake up that heli :)

Nicolas

[helicraze]

I just got my ET motor, about to test fly this morning if weather is ok. Its strange, some people are saying this motor is great yet others claim little improvment over the 40/10L 8P non ET

[helicraze]

Did a quick flight and initial thoughts are its not really got much over the 40/10L 8P non ET.
Will change some settings and see how i go tommorow. Also added 40 grams over the old motor.

[Big Fil]

Sounds like I have no reason to upgrade from my A40-8L. Now I don't have to lose control of my right hand wanting to take wallet out of pocket and spend more $$$:).

[helicraze]

Well had a few more flights and put the 40/10L 8P back in, sold the ET already. I did not find any better performance at all, save the $$$

[BruceW]

Supposedly there is a new Scorpion motor (1100KV) in the works for the Logo 500 but I haven't seen any specs for it. Saw this over on RR in a post by P.J.