Done with Deans, but which power pole rating?

[jayrok1018]

With my minimal experience with 'em (ran as fast from soldering deans on lipos as I could) I'd have to agree that the 45's should be fine, even in the higher amp applications. Based on what's on the Anderson site, they're rated at 45amps PER connector, meaning 45 on the pos side and 45 on the neg side totaling 90amps through the pair of 45 connectors. Their testing has also shown that even the 30's can handle sustained 200amp without failing. (See attached datasheet & link below)

I like 'em too, and love the fact that I don't need 'Y' connectors to make series connections :thumbup:.

Oh, and a really good article/howto and helpful resource on picking the right ones --> http://www.flyrc.com/articles/using_powerpole_1.shtml

[psindrup]

What crimp tool did you end up getting? The West mountain radio?


I bought this one:

http://www.powerwerx.com/product.asp?ProdID=3324&CtgID=3575

An extremely well build piece of hardware.

I have a degree in electronic engineering, and I have not seen a crimp tool more sturdy and "professional" than this. It looks as if it is build to be used 8 hours a day, all year long.

Crimping the powerpoles is really a "walk in the park" :thumbup:



Peter

[LoveMyTrex]

that is the tool my LHS uses to crimp our power poles, we use it almost 8 hours a day every day, and it lasted us over a year before it has started crimping to loose and we had to get a new one.

[kmfisher]

After switching over to the 45s for my trex 500 6s batteries and the 30s for my blade 400, I love them. I doubt if I will ever use anything else for my helicopters again. I plan in investing in a better crimping tool soon though. :thumbup:

[psindrup]

After switching over to the 45s for my trex 500 6s batteries and the 30s for my blade 400, I love them. I doubt if I will ever use anything else for my helicopters again. I plan in investing in a better crimping tool soon though. :thumbup:

Get the crimping tool - you will love it! :thumbup:

Considering how much time and money we spend on this hobby, I think it is money well spend. No more soldering, and a new connector is "installed" in less than 5 minutes.

Peter

[kmfisher]

I agree, definately my next "upgrade".

[Hen3]

....... they're rated at 45amps PER connector, meaning 45 on the pos side and 45 on the neg side totaling 90amps through the pair of 45 connectors.

The current flowing trough the positive connector returns to the battery trough the negative connector - it is exactly the same current. So the pair of 45s would be just that - 45 Amps.

Good that these are rated conservative. The only rating I could find on Deans was 45 Amps. Been bitten a few times by Deans not making good contact once fully seated, have since long switched to 6 mm bullets.

[JamesDHeli]

Many years ago I worked with an ET (Electronic Tech) that worked on the Space Shuttle. According to him all the connections on the Shuttle are crimped. Cool..

I see "Will probably work", "Didn't fail under 100amps", "10,000 connect and disconnect cycles", "Good for 100amps (short bursts)" and more claims.
What I want to know is which has the least amount of voltage drop under load.
Properly soldered Deans or properly crimped PP??

That will tell which one is more efficient regarless of which is easier to connect and disconnect. I want to know which is transfering the most power from the batts to the motor.

I would do a test but don't have any PP connectors and don't want to spend $70 to find out.

Anyone have the time and equipment to do that?

[LoveMyTrex]

I would but I dont have any deans, and I dont want to do any soldering to figure it out.

the electronics wizard at my hobby shop, and he is a wizard, says they can handle just as much current flow as deans, and that a good crimp is a better connection than a good solder, and it is much harder to get a good solder. plus you never have to worry about having the right connectors male or female because power poles are unisex. and they ark alot less.

also all of the 15-45 am size of connectors can handle the same current flow, the only difference is what size wiring they can except.

[ClayK]

I would but I dont have any deans, and I dont want to do any soldering to figure it out.

the electronics wizard at my hobby shop, and he is a wizard, says they can handle just as much current flow as deans, and that a good crimp is a better connection than a good solder, and it is much harder to get a good solder. plus you never have to worry about having the right connectors male or female because power poles are unisex. and they ark alot less.

also all of the 15-45 am size of connectors can handle the same current flow, the only difference is what size wiring they can except.
In what way is a crimped joint better than a soldered joint? Who is the electronics expert you are referring to at HH?

[LoveMyTrex]

I don't know what way a crimped joint is better that a soldering joint, but tyler said that when we were discussing deans, and stuff he says about electronics I trust.

[psindrup]

In what way is a crimped joint better than a soldered joint? Who is the electronics expert you are referring to at HH?

I have a degree in electronic engineering, and we were always taught that crimping was better for the following reasons:

1) Solder is not that good a conductor.
2) The mechanical "edge" between a solder and the wire is much more likely to break, than the "edge" between the crimp and the wire, because it "sharp", compared to the crimp.
3) (And this really applies to the hobbyist) It is much easier to do a perfect crimp, than to do a perfect solder.

Peter

[ClayK]

I have a degree in electronic engineering, and we were always taught that crimping was better for the following reasons:

1) Solder is not that good a conductor.
2) The mechanical "edge" between a solder and the wire is much more likely to break, than the "edge" between the crimp and the wire, because it "sharp", compared to the crimp.
3) (And this really applies to the hobbyist) It is much easier to do a perfect crimp, than to do a perfect solder.

Peter
Provided the crimp is done with the right tool and provided that "corners" aren't cut when you crimp is the only way crimping is better than soldering. Let's face it, hobbyist cut corners constantly. I see it in building and repairs. If a wire gauge is too big, they trim it to fit into a Powerpole, thus negating the advantage of a crimped connector. If the gauge is too small, they just crimp it harder, again, negating the advantage of a crimped connector. Soldering is bad when too much heat is applied next to an electrical component (read board or other). This isn't the case with what we are doing, we are soldering leads away from a pack and away from a motor/esc.

The other issue is arcing, a comment was made that Deans arc and Andersons don't. If you don't think you have arcing inside of a Powerpole.... I don't even know how to respond... Do you think the light in the frig stays on after you close the door?

Again, the mechanical edge of a soldered joint is just as likely to break due to improper soldering. Too much solder, too little solder, all are reasons why a joint can be bad.

In the end, my point is this: For someone to proclaim that one is better than the other when both have pros and cons is akin to the Ford/Chevy debate. I have three Master Electricians I know that say that Deans are better. Congrats on the degree. Would I take the input from electricians in the field over someone in a hobby shop? Maybe. Degree over field experience? I think we have beat this issue to death on a variety of other issues. I'm not going to debate the issue endlessly online. Use what works. I use Deans because just about everyone I fly with uses Deans and I can get a charge from pretty much anyone. On a side note, if one makes the argument to fly one brand of helicopter over another because of availability of parts at field/shop... why would charging connectors be any different? There is no superiority of Deans over Andersons that make this a clear choice.

Use what works, go fly and enjoy.

[LoveMyTrex]

i don't think I said power poles do not arc I said they ark alot less, and they continuously clean themselves every time you connect or disconnect them.


at HH we use the right size connectors, we use 15's for the small stuff, 30's for most stuff, and the 45's for the big stuff.

clay, I guess you must not fly at VARCHA much, because almost everyone at VARCA uses power poles.

also, I don't really care witch one conducts a little bit better, I care more that deans are a PITA to connect and disconnect, and power poles are super easy, you can do it with one hand.

[ClayK]

i don't think I said power poles do not arc I said they ark alot less, and they continuously clean themselves every time you connect or disconnect them.


at HH we use the right size connectors, we use 15's for the small stuff, 30's for most stuff, and the 45's for the big stuff.

clay, I guess you must not fly at VARCHA much, because almost everyone at VARCA uses power poles.

also, I don't really care witch one conducts a little bit better, I care more that deans are a PITA to connect and disconnect, and power poles are super easy, you can do it with one hand.
You are right, I don't fly at VARCHA much. It's only been open for how long? I also have a job that keeps me on travel and a newborn.

I do fly at fun flys all over the eastern coast though spanning from BHAM all the way to IRCHA. My first year in this hobby I went to like 17 or 18 fun flies (SC, NC, PA, MD, VA, OH, NY, GA, IN, TN). Year after that, same thing. Only this past year has prevented me from taking as many flies in due to work.

Ok, Andersons work great for you. Keep using them. Deans work great for me. Just don't try to "convert" me. I used Andersons when I played with RC Cars 18 years ago. FYI, I bought stuff in Kwang's shop before you were born when it was Hobby Hangar Super Speedway over by the Post Office :shock: :happyd I use to ride my 10-speed over to his shop from Greenbriar and Franklin Farms (where I grew up). Oh my, did I just date myself? First year in the hobby, I used Anderson's as well. When going to all the events I did, I had a hard time getting charging help because almost no one used them. If you look in my parts box, or ask me, I'll show you all the Anderson's I have just sitting around.

[joco]

Um, maybe the reason everyone at VARCHA uses PowerPoles is because Hobby Hangar likes them, aand pushes them on everyone.

But Clay is right outside of Hobby Hangar land most people use Deans. And the difficulty in connection can easily be solved by gluing a little sandpaper on the top to aid in grippiness on the connector.

[LoveMyTrex]

yeah, I know outside of HH land most people use deans, but if you have your own charger, and batteries, you wont have to borrow any one elses. I am not trying to convert you, just trying to help people who are sick of deans. all you have done is drug this thread far off topic

[psindrup]

Clay - The only reason I mentioned that I have a degree in EE is to indicate that "I know what I am talking about" and I do know how to solder properly.

If interoperability between Deans and PowerPol is an issue, it is very easy to make a couple of adaptors "both ways" - your Dean to frinds PP and the other way around.

Over and out.

Peter

[ClayK]

Clay - The only reason I mentioned that I have a degree in EE is to indicate that "I know what I am talking about" and I do know how to solder properly.

If interoperability between Deans and PowerPol is an issue, it is very easy to make a couple of adaptors "both ways" - your Dean to frinds PP and the other way around.

Over and out.

Peter
I have no doubt you know what you are talking about psindrup, I don't believe I ever questioned that. My previous comments weren't directed in anyway at yourself, so I fail to see why the defensiveness. I typically quote the person to whom I am either addressing or the OP so confusion like this can be avoided. Not saying you can't provide input, but you seem to think that I am at odds with anything being said and that just isn't the case.

You are correct, you could make an adapter. But wouldn't impedance be increased with each interface? I remember that from somewhere..... :dontknow

[psindrup]

You are correct, you could make an adapter. But wouldn't impedance be increased with each interface? I remember that from somewhere..... :dontknow

Now that this is addressed directly to me, I feel an "obligation" to answer.

Yes, the resistance (not impedance) will increase by a few milli ohms by each set of connectors.

Peter

PS: I have been using PowerPoles for a couple of weeks now, and all I can say is that I love them, They feel so much more "professional" than the Deans, and they connect and disconnect like a dream.

[mike04743]

I have racing rc cars long time and cars would hit wall so hard. We needed to tie rap power poles togetter.Deans would break off and was 99% of rc electric problems where deans connectors.Not sure why everyone thinks they are so awsome in rc heli

[LoveMyTrex]

its funny at my LHS all the plane and heli guys use PP and all the car guys use deans

[ClayK]

Now that this is addressed directly to me, I feel an "obligation" to answer.

Yes, the resistance (not impedance) will increase by a few milli ohms by each set of connectors.

Peter

PS: I have been using PowerPoles for a couple of weeks now, and all I can say is that I love them, They feel so much more "professional" than the Deans, and they connect and disconnect like a dream.

Now I'm purely curious, I thought they were about the same... I'm not an EE and it's been a few years (10) since I sat in the class... :dontknow

Ohm's Law
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/f/6/c/f6cda470e0dda83a09efbbbc84c9ee66.png

If Ohm's law is R=V/I, then http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/c/c/a/cca903b5d136d2e57f2af2f290f0eabd.pngwhere Z equals relative impedance substituted into Ohm's.

Since I'm not the resident expert on electronics....

PS: I'm not trying to establish a debate on which is better (Dean's or Powerpoles), because it's a matter of preference, I'm trying to get an electrical question answered since now my curiosity is piqued.

I'm glad you guys like Powerpoles, I haven't tried to tell you not to use them, just the trade-off of using them when at fun flies. My original question is quoted here for posterity. In what way is a crimped joint better than a soldered joint? Who is the electronics expert you are referring to at HH? and as an additive, this post (http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=754522&postcount=63) simply says what I have reiterated over and over. Use what works, there is no clear cut advantage to either one. Each have pros and cons. Decide what works for you. I truly am sorry if this appears to be confrontational as that was not my intent.

[precV]

Now I'm purely curious, I thought they were about the same... I'm not an EE and it's been a few years (10) since I sat in the class... :dontknow


Well, it's been longer than 10 years since I sat in my class, but as I remember it...

They are about the same, but impedance is used to describe a more complex opposition to current and includes reactance (both capacitive and inductive) AND resistance. Above all, impedance varies with frequency in an alternating current circuit, pure resistance does not.

There is no alternating current (i.e., no frequency) in the simple battery circuits being discussed here, only direct current, therefore resistance is the proper term to describe any opposition to current flow in a connector.

Hey, this is my first post!

[Scotty T]

:DH

Just messin' :Bang