tail bounce slide thing? ....what?

[Sirwallis]

I dont know if this is gaui related or just electronics but heres the question.

i just finished setting up my gaui 200, Ive been hovering around the house trimming and making final adjustments i thought i had every thing perfect until i noticed that when i yaw to the left (tail goes right) the tail doesn't stop right away. it will go another 20 deg. or so. theres no drifting and i dont think it bounces back at all but if it does its definitely not 20 deg.

i tried searching but i dont know what to search for. so if this has a name feel free to tell me what it is and ill do the searching.

thanks

...this is the setup
Gyro logictech 2100
Tail servo s3154
HS-45s
AR6100

[rotorhead58d]

what do you have your gain set at in the radio. should be around 78

[mrivers]

Did you set up the rudder linkage for the gyro's Rate mode?

[Sirwallis]

gain is 73%

MRIVERS- im not sure i understand your question but i set up the tail in rate mode (around 30% with the green light off).

I pulled the gyro out of my REX and it was working fine in there (other than a slight drift that i never got around to).

i was messing around with the throttle and pitch curve right before i noticed it, could my head speed have anything to do with it?

[t-driver]

gain is 73%

MRIVERS- im not sure i understand your question but i set up the tail in rate mode (around 30% with the green light off).

I pulled the gyro out of my REX and it was working fine in there (other than a slight drift that i never got around to).

i was messing around with the throttle and pitch curve right before i noticed it, could my head speed have anything to do with it?

if you lower the head speed it becomes sluggish,and the tail needs more gain.
sometimes too less head speed and the tail can't be corrected by adding more gain.
i did some experimenting with my raptor, but i don't know if the gaui behaves the same.

[rotorhead58d]

if you lower the head speed it becomes sluggish,and the tail needs more gain.
sometimes too less head speed and the tail can't be corrected by adding more gain.
i did some experimenting with my raptor, but i don't know if the gaui behaves the same.

how do you like your rappy anyway?

[t-driver]

how do you like your rappy anyway?

i like it very much.
it is the most stable and biggest size heli i have ever flown.
it is my first heli,i bought it 5 years ago as a V2 60 (recently upgraded to 90)
and i actually learned heli flying with it.
parts cost much more so i got the H200 to try new things with less crash cost.
(although i crashed it (raptor) only ones,the second time i have flown it)

it is so stable it flies by itself and it is way much easier to learn with it....compared to anything smaller.... too bad the crash cost equals it's size.....

[rotorhead58d]

maybe some smart guy like crabfu will come up with a 250 sized gaui. extended tail boom, longer blades, nitro power, more tail authority.

:lolol

someday, i will take the nitro plunge. the avant looks cool to me.

[Sirwallis]

Ok i raised head speed that seems to have helped but now i have a new problem.....

the bearing that sits in the top spacer ( just befor the cyclic ) keeps sliding out after just a few min of flight.

ive been looking at this thing and im not even sure how it was supposed to stay in from the factory and the only thing i can think of now is to put a dab of glue or locktight on it.

any one else have this problem?

[scarr]

Ok i raised head speed that seems to have helped but now i have a new problem.....

the bearing that sits in the top spacer ( just befor the cyclic ) keeps sliding out after just a few min of flight.

ive been looking at this thing and im not even sure how it was supposed to stay in from the factory and the only thing i can think of now is to put a dab of glue or locktight on it.

any one else have this problem?

Yes, mine does that also, TINY bit of "shoe goop" or E600 (what I use) on the OD of the bearing to keep it in place works great. If you have to get it out or replace it you can heat it up with a heat gun and you can pull it out easily .

[Sirwallis]

thanks for the idea, i just wanted to make sure i wasn't missing a set screw or something like that.

..im pretty good at doing things the hard way....

[jimgrant]

I used a drop of loctite bearing fit, round the rim of the bearing... its been ok since. The first time the bearing popped out, it disappeared up inside the swashplate, took me ages to work out what was causing the vibration, cos I couldnt see it was missing at first

[Sirwallis]

HAHA! ^^^ I did the same thing.... " man i must be tired or something cause this just got alot more difficult"

[Sirwallis]

okay i just spent my whole saturday trying fix this problem instead of flying:arggg:. i raised the head speed a while ago and that helped, but today i was doing a little harder flying and its definitely not gone it just got a little better.

SO heres what is going on:

light rudder input either direction is Fine, tail does exactly what its supposed to

hard right the tail will wag or bounce

hard left the tail doesnt stop where it should, it goes about 45*-90* AFTER i let off the stick

i have tried every thing i can think of i flipped the gyro over, changed gyro tape, set up gyro multiple times, adjust head speed, belt tension, walked the dog, etc....


PLEASE HELP ME!!!:(

[psindrup]

What throttle curve are you running?

The faster your head speed, the faster the tail speed, the more tail authority.

Keep increasing your gyro gain until the tail starts to wag rapidly side to side, and slowly decrease the gain until the wag stops. (Forget about the "numbers).

I run the 2100T too, with no problems whatsoever.

Peter

[Sirwallis]

throttle curve is 0 52.5 75 85 95 Ive been running the gyro between 72 and 82% (DX6i) , i get more bounce back on right input with the higher numbers but still has no effect on left input problem.

the gyro was perfect on my trex so im not sure that it is a gyro problem.


BTW is your tail rotor shaft perfectly level with the rest of the heli or is it angled slightly downward?

[psindrup]

BTW is your tail rotor shaft perfectly level with the rest of the heli or is it angled slightly downward?

It is perfectly horizontal.

Peter

[crabfu]

I bet your bearings are loose on the tail CF plates. It has happened to me twice now, and the symptoms sounds similar to yours.

I had the problem in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SN8buAGnd4 at 48 second ish... there is a hard stop of the tail, that wasn't me... tail kep turning after I stopped adding rudder, and then it suddenly decided to stop in a hurry. I usually try to be really easy on the rudder, and got used to flying this way for a while before discovering the tail bearing being loose... the belt pulled the tail shaft in a bit and added some angle, and I could wiggle the tail shaft. The tail would be unpredictable, sometimes it just wants to go a tiny bit more, and then hard stop. Mine case didn't sound nearly as bad as you are describing though, but I didn't take it out full FF when this was happening.... so not sure if it was related to how hard/fast you turned, or if I mine would have kicked out as far as yours is doing. I thought it was just a vibration issue throwing off the gyro, but I dunno... in any case, an loose and off angle tail shaft can't be good.... worth taking a look at the tail bearings, and see if they've grounded the CF tail plate holes into a much bigger hole.

-Crabfu

[Sirwallis]

i think you got it ! well i dont know thats the problem for sure yet but i can definitely see where it has worn down. thats why i asked about the shaft angle, i made my shaft perfectly level but the the rest of the assembly is angled upward. do you think this could be a result of an over tightened belt? Is there a way to fix this without replacing the whole thing?

[SurfCity]

i made my shaft perfectly level but the the rest of the assembly is angled upward.

Mine has been like this since it was new; the shaft isn't exactly perpendicular/parallel to the rest of the assembly. I level the shaft and let everything else go where it wants.

[crabfu]

I think the problem with the tail bearing is just a bad design of using cf and bearings together, in an area that has a lot of vibration. If this is your problem Sirwallis, you should have a bit of play on the tail shaft, put slight pressure on it and see if it feels loose. My guess is that in my case, I didn't realize that the bearing got loose, and so I tightened the belt since it felt too loose, which pulled it together more and ground down the cf hole for the bearing even worse.... Oh I don't know, but check your tail shaft for play.

If it's angeled up or down a bit, it shouldn't be much of a problem, unless it's by a lot. But if it's angeled in on one side, that's a clearer sign of one cf hole is larger and the bearing got loose, tail belt pulling one side in more than the other side. So to check, it's not really about the angle of the shaft, but if the shaft is loose.

-Crabfu

[Sirwallis]

its definitely loose/worn down, the hole on the left is tight and the hole on the right is loose and more of an oval shape now. is there any thing i can do to fix it , or do i just have to replace the whole thing?

[Buzzkill]

Just a thought, epoxy maybe?

[stoatnchips]

Thought i'd check mine out and sure enough the race behind the fin has cut itself an oval :mad:

The only way i could tell before stripping it down was a tiny ring of JET BLACK around the bearing... it looked much darker than the normal dirty oil residue that you get. I guess its just a paste of oil and graphite powder! It might be a good 'First Sign' of this problem. I have just CA'd it back together and am hoping it will last until i get a replacement or I might even fit the MH tail to it.

[crabfu]

I have had one cf plate hole so oval that is way beyond repair... I emailed gaui about it, since you can not buy just the cf plates, but have to buy the entire tail. They sent me an extra set of cf tail plates.... for free! I urged them on to produce just the cf tail plates for sale as spare parts, perhaps if enough people email them, they will get the idea, and maybe even change the design :)

The second time that this happened to me, the bearing was loose, but I caught it early before it vibrated itself into an big oval. I cleaned it up and used just CA between the bearing and the cf hole, and it's been holding just fine.

My first thought was that I used too much belt lube, which got around the bearings and worked itself in. Like stoatnchips mentioned, it had a ring of goop around the bearing... jet black and sandy. I posted about it a while back in this forum, apparently a lot of people have had this happen, but not everyone used belt lube. So I guess it's just the nature of putting a bearing in a cf hole.... not the smartest design on a part that is vibrating alot, and spinning at insane rpms...

-Crabfu