Toshiba super cell, latest news

[PDC]

Hi!

Contacted Toshiba in Japan and got this answer plus a power point presentation i don´t know if I can upload to these pages.

Waiting for answer on further questions.

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- New battery can recharge 80% of its full capacity in one to two minutes. (If you have a nuclear power-plant in your backyard ;-)

- Pulse input power density of 3400W/kg for 5 seconds and pulse output power density of 3000W/kg for 5 seconds are possible. (That will be some serious tic - tocs )　

- New battery is able to be discharged and fully recharged 1500 times at 45 degrees centigrade and capacity loss is less than 10%. (Wow, now lipo cells will last forever)

- 85% of capacity is able to be discharged at minus 30 degrees centigrade. (Good news for freezing eskimo, now he will be out there and freeze the whole winter ;-)

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Dear Mr.Paul Christiansen

Thank you for your email on Toshiba New super charge lithium-ion battery?D


I will send you informations on Toshiba new lithium-ion battery.

1. Battery applications
Our target markets are Power and industrial sectors such as UPS,
Hybrid Electrical Vehicle and so on.


2. Battery specification
(1)Capacity range ; 3 to 40Ah
(2)voltage range ; 12 to 800 V

3. Start of Battery production
Our development plans are as following;
delivering sample battery (12V-3Ah) :from Feb.2006 onwards
commercial production :from 2006 onwards

4.Battery cost
As the battery is under development,I can't estimte the battery cost
at the present.

5.Explanation materials
Please see below file.

(See attached file: ?VŒ^‹}‘¬?[“d“d’r?à–¾?i‰p•¶•¹‹L”Å?jRevC.ppt)

If you have any questions,please let me know it by email.

Best Regards,

Hideki Tanaka
Toshiba Corp. Industrial and Power Systems & Services Co.
New business Promotion Div.

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http://www.rc-unionen.dk/nytforum/uploads/Paul/2005914201040_1%20Toshiba%20cell.jpg



See more info in my gallery


http://www.helifreak.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=5293

http://www.helifreak.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=5294

http://www.helifreak.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=5297

http://www.helifreak.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=5295

http://www.helifreak.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=5296

http://www.helifreak.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=5298

[flyinfool]

Soooo.....
a 40 Ah 800v battery tha recharges to 80% in 2 min.
that would be 960 Amps of current assuming 100% eficiency.
The power input will be 768,000 Watts to charge.
And this is all assuming that nothing will get hot and reduce efficiency. :mrgreen:

I am not saying that it can not be done but I am on the list of skeptics.

FWIW this was released on April first last year.

[pilotError]

that would be 960 Amps of current assuming 100% eficiency

Did you miss the Nuclear Power Plant reference? LOL

Apparently they created some nanotech coating that allows it to do the fast charge / discharge thing. There's a second company (NEC?) that is doing this as well. I don't know if a research lab is licensing the technology out.

I think the military implications for these things wasn't mentioned. In particular, its use in directed energy weapons which require a fast discharge battery to make it useful in the field.

[PDC]

Soooo.....
a 40 Ah 800v battery tha recharges to 80% in 2 min.
that would be 960 Amps of current assuming 100% eficiency.
The power input will be 768,000 Watts to charge.
And this is all assuming that nothing will get hot and reduce efficiency. :mrgreen:

I am not saying that it can not be done but I am on the list of skeptics.

FWIW this was released on April first last year.


"Technically, there is no problem to use this technology for cell phone batteries," Takami says.

Because the batteries charge so quickly, the company will have to develop small transformers to handle the extra current, it says.


It seems like they know they just created a new problem, but I can live with that kind of problems ;-)

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,120234,00.asp

[PDC]

Some more info from Toshiba in Japan.

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- Is it correct that these cells can be discharged constant with 30C without overheating and still having 90% capacity left?
Cell can be discharged at 30C for 2 minutes without overheating . Also, cell can be discharge 90% of total capacity at 30C without overheating .

- What will the 5 sec peak C discharge rating be?
It is around 65C.

- The method of charging is CCCV.

- Our cell is the kind of Li-ion battery,so it is weak for overcharge and overdischarge. Cell voltage is controlled against overcharge and overdischarge by battery controll system.

[PDC]

And some more info.

Seems like the energy density on this first generation of the new cells isn´t as high as our present cells, but then again these cells have very high discharge/charge capability´s, very long lifetime, very good at low temperatures etc. so still think they might be preferred in many RC applications over our present cells.

Also, maybe our present very good high C rated cells might be improved with some magic nano star dust from Japan ;-).

Can´t wait to test these cells irl.

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Q.

- At the moment a 4,2V 8000ma 10C discharge lipo cell have a weight of around 180gr, what will the energy density on your cell be compared to this?

A.

- Energy density on our cell is 80Wh/kg.
If lipo cell have 8000ma at 10C, the capacity is 0.8Ah/180g. The energy density is around 19Wh/kg.

Q.

- Just to clarify the energy density, think I confused things when I mentioned the 10C discharge capability. The cells we have today with a weight of 180gr are on 4,2V fully charged and 3,7 volt nominal and 8Ah at 1C discharge. The 10C discharge I mentioned is just what such a cell max. is able to be discharged with. So think the density will be 8.0Ah/180gr. Equal to 164 Wh/kg at 1C discharge rate, or twice as much as your new cell at 1C discharge rate. Is that correct?

A.

- Dear Mr.Paul Christiansen

Thank you for your comment regarding my reply.

I undertsood your explanation.
your commment is correct.

I know that energy density of Toshiba new cell is lower than that of battery for mobile equipment.

The energy density of cell can be increased in a degree by redesign, but another merit(quick charge and so on) of cell may disapper.

So,we think that the cell is suitable for industrial sectors such as UPS,HEV and so on.