esmart 550

[H to the C]

Just wanting to let everyone know that the Esmart 550 flys very good. I'm using the stock motor with a phoenix 110 esc. I have been very impressed with it. The heli tracks very good and most of all it does hard 3d with the stock motor. I'm going to see what it will do with a 1515 1.5y Neu motor .


the only thing I did to this heli out of the box was disassemble the head and Loctite everything.

I really enjoy flying this little heli, It's hard to believe the price of the heli versus the way it flys.

I will have some video very soon of it in action...

henry caldwell

[DierWolf]

Well its a 600 :)

I'm about finished building mine, just waiting on some stuff to reach... get us some video if you can.

PS why did you go with 110A esc?

[H to the C]

that's the only spare esc I had.

[H to the C]

well i say it's a 550 because it's nowhere close to being as big as my 600's

[damyxz]

H to the C, Are you running a 6S setup? or a 5S? Do you have any source for pinions? ( I need an 11T or 10 T)
So far I'm enjoying mine right now and I have been flying it more than my trex 600's. Thanks for any info you can share. I agree it's a 550. I'm thinking of putting in a swift 620 tail boom system on mine to stretch it to a 600 + size.

[DierWolf]

Well 90mm extra length to me isnt much :)

Can you post picture side by side? Perferably with Canopies off and front trays even. The belt CP also looked much bigger with a trex canopy on.

[Tyree]

Hey Henry....

Do you really think the plastic belt drive gears etc. will hold up to more power??
I have one of these...and it does fly great...especially for the $$
but the belt drive system scares me just a little...

Ty

Ya gonna test fly the nitro Phazor ??

[damyxz]

I had a mishap yesterday with the e-smart. I was doing inverted funnels when suddenly the tails lost hold and heli started spinning. I was able to manage an auto(props to non driven tail) and I found out that the plastic tail case fractured in several areas. Lost 1 bearing, slider arm and a piece of the tail case. No other damage was done. I already ordered a swift 620 metal tail case, a swift 620 main gear, swift 620 tail transmission gear, boom, belt and a 10 and 11 tooth pinion. I think the head speed with the 12T pinion is too high for a 6S setup. I can't find a modulus .8 pinion with 10 or 11 T size, so I switched to the swift(mod.1.0) gear train. Has anybody found a source for 10T pinion on .8 module?

[DierWolf]

POst up those mods of the tail stuff when you get it...

[damyxz]

OK, My contact person for the swift 620 parts is unable to get the metal tail case due to it being backordered. I will for now stick with the metal E-smart tail case, swift tail shaft, pulley, boom and transmission gear. I hope my parts comes in tomorrow. I also will be trying the TIG 550mm Z-weave carbon blades. I will post more info next week.

[DierWolf]

Is this the tailbox your referring too?

http://www.centuryheli.com/products/images/supplementary/CNE566.jpg

Espirit has it in stock for $40.00

http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6428

[damyxz]

Yes that's what it is. I already ordered the e-smart metal tailcase though. I will get this one if I'm not happy with the one I ordered. Hopefully my package will be here this week so I can test it on the Saturday.
I have been flying my trex 600 in the meantime.

[DierWolf]

The esmart version seem and looks to be the exact same design as the cnc tail box for the Belt CP, jsut 100 times bigger LOL.

To be truthful with you the cnc stuff they are making for the esmart other than the main blade grips seem to not have much attention put to them, in other words they seem like straight cut lumps of metal with no nice smooth curves which is why i like the the 620's tail box much nicer.

So your saying the transmission box for the 620 will also work? whats the benefits? better plastics? is there a cnc version?

[damyxz]

I have been comparing the parts with my friend's swift 620( he is a factory demo pilot) and my problem is the lack of available pinions for the e-smart. The swift gear system is a 1.0 module and is readily available in different tooth count. The tail transmission gear for the swift uses a 4mm pin but I will use a different set of bearings so I can use the 3mm pin that the e-smart uses. The swift's belt also has bigger teeth similar to a trex 600's belt. I can use a trex 600 tail shaft and pulley(I have plenty as spares) and will be using the trex 600 TR hub, grips and slider(I also have as spares). I am shooting for a head speed of about 1900-2000 rpm @ 80% efficiency. On paper, the stock set up will give me over 2100 rpm. The tail gearing of the stock setup is 1: 4.62 which theoretically gives me about 9933 rpm's. I think this is too high of speed for a tail rotor system. (Which led to the tail case fracturing). The swift's gearing might give me a slightly slower tail rotor speed which will be in the 7000's. I think the integrity of the helicopter will be safer at this RPM range doing 3D. I am just experimenting at this stage, I will be using the e-smart for a practice helicopter and as soon as I get it to where I want it to be, it will stay that way. I still have my trex 600's to toy with and a swift 620 coming in.

[DierWolf]

Ok sounds good and yes 9K rpm on the tail is quite high...

Let me know how you get on with the tail conversion i may want to do the same thing so post how-to's with part no.s :)

Before i sign out.

You mention tooth depth .... if i buy the tail box from the swift can i use it with the belt that comes with esmart?

[damyxz]

Nope, you cant' use the e-smart belt. The swift transmission gear has a pulley designed to work with a large toothed belt(trex 600/swift), unless there is a way to make an e-smart belt pulley mate with the swift's transmission gear.

[DierWolf]

Ok...

So your saying the Tail Shaft w/ Pully from the Swift cannot work with the esmart belt.

So here are some questions.


1. Can the Tail Shaft w/Pully from the Esmart work in the Swift CNC tailbox
2. if 1 not possible, can the tailshaft pully thats on the esmart be swapped onto the swift tailshaft.

If none of those are possible then that obviously means we need to just just the entire swift tail assembly (Transmission, Boom an Tailbox) on the Esmart... which brings up one more question.

Does the transmission box fit and align up properly with the Smart frame an is the gear pitch the same between the esmart main gear and the swift transmission.

Thats alot to figure out on my end as i cannot simply walk to a store that sells swifts and compare parts...

[DierWolf]

Ok here are the 2 pullies from each system

first the Esky tail shaft pully... Seems to secure the same way with the 2mm pin.

http://www.bphobbies.com/img/esky/EK5-0347.jpg

and the Swift's pully.

http://www2.gpmd.com/image/c/cehe1529.jpg


The difference in the belt can be seen , swift/trex uses square belt style while Esky uses rounded.

Seems to me the swap can be made quite easily so long the tail shafts are the same diameter.

Same goes for the transmission gear on both, its just swifts its one piece molded while the esky one is 2 piece.. and i see no reason what so ever the swifts transmission gear cannot fit directly into place on the esky transmission box as they are held and secured the exact same way.

Your thoughts

[damyxz]

The swift 620's transmission gear pin is 4mm diameter , and I think the e-smart uses a 3mm pin( I might be wrong though...just eyeballing the pin). The e-smart tail shaft will work in the swift metal TR cage(might need some spacers) I got my parts today and I will be doing the repair tomorrow. I also got the 550 mm TIG Z-weave blades...looks awesome and really stiff. They came well balanced CG wise and just a small amount of tape to really balance it out. My swift parts has not arrived yet...maybe next week. I might post some pics later on.

[damyxz]

OK I got everything together and I had a ball today. Started with some circuits then mild 3D and some hard 3D. I got 3 flights no crashes and everything held up. Some slight vibes on spool up nothing else. The metal tail cage held good. I slightly shortened the stock tail blades about !/4 inch since I am still using stock gearing.
Head speed seems higher but the tail held good in FBF's and tailslides. No problems with tic-tocs and inverted funnels. Just had a great day, 3 flights- no crashes. I am still thinking that the head speed is too high(mods will follow). I just found out that the swift 620/550 main gear has the same diameter as the stock E-smart gear(100mm). The mods to get a lower head speed consist of the following parts:
1. swift 620 tail transmission gear
2. swift 620/550 main gear
3. swift 550/620 belt
4. swift 620/550 TR shaft, and pulley.
5. 11T module 1.0 5mm bore pinion
I will try and borrow(mooch) these from my friend and I will post the conversion process later.
Anyway here are some pics of the E-smart with the z-weave CF blades.

[DierWolf]

LOL i never heard of people complaining about headspeed, usually the more the better becuase of stability it brings.

Looking at LockMD's vids and some on youtube the headspeed doesnt seem all that great in fact seems pretty normal....

Anyways i guess i'll find out soon enough.

Ok just to make sure, you said the tail rotor shaft will fit in the Swift tailbox.. thats good news if it can.. Let me know so i can click add to cart ;)

[LockMD]

LOL i never heard of people complaining about headspeed, usually the more the better becuase of stability it brings.

Looking at LockMD's vids and some on youtube the headspeed doesnt seem all that great in fact seems pretty normal....

Anyways i guess i'll find out soon enough.

Ok just to make sure, you said the tail rotor shaft will fit in the Swift tailbox.. thats good news if it can.. Let me know so i can click add to cart ;)

I kept mine pretty mellow on the BEAST for fear of ripping the sheathing off the stock woodies. Now on the 400 even normal buzzing around I fly in idle up 100-90-80-90-100 guess thats kinda melow for an idle up curve too?

[DierWolf]

Thats what i am getting at, headspeed can be controlled via the pitch curve.

[damyxz]

Head speed is relative to the user. I prefer a head speed between 1900 rpm and 2100 rpm. I wouldn't have a problem with the stock HS but the the TR to MR ration is kinda high. Too much TR causes unwanted vibes and erratic tail behavior during 3D flight. Also I don't think the mechanics are designed for that high of a TR speed.(tail case fracture right?). Any mechanical imbalance no matter how it seems insignificant gets amplified on high RPM's. As I said with the stock gearing, the TR speed can go as high as 10,000 rpm. That is really too high for a belt driven mechanics. I am not one to control head speed with throttle curve or pitch curve. I am going for the most efficient and reliable set up. I set up my mechanics first close to ideal and then fine tune with electronic controls. To solve this problem, the choices are 1. use a lower head speed, 2. change the TR to MR ratio or 3. say the hell with it and live with the vibes and erratic tail behavior. I am going with option 1. To lower the head speed, I have 3 choices: 1. get a smaller pinion, 2. Find another gearing which is compatible and allows use of different pinions inexpensively, or 3. get a slower kv motor. I am going with option 2 route since a new motor will set me back another 100 bucks and I have a friend who can loan me parts before I buy. I have been flying 50 size helis at this head speed range and I am comfortable with it. Any more speed than that might be dangerous. Carbon blades are only rated for 2200 rpm(thunder tiger) and I do not want to push my luck. I am not telling anyone to go this route or do this mod if it is not neccessary according to your way of thinking, I am doing this project because I Think I need it for my flying style and safety beleifs. Will report more as soon as I get parts needed.

[DierWolf]

Well here is what i have come up with.

- Engine Drive Pinion: 12T (Stock comes with it)
- Main Drive Gear: 120T
- Tail drive main gear: 26T
- Gear ratio: 1:10:4.62

Motor KV Rating : Esky lists the same model with 2 ratings 1100 and 1200 so i will use the higher number.

If your going to be running 6 cells thats 22.2v

Motor RPM at full throttle without any load = 26,640 rpm

Using 12 tooth Stock Pinion with STock Gear of 120 teeth, thats 2664 rpm headspeed
with Zero Load, which we all know is impossible so we will use an efficiency rating of 80%
which works out to be 2130 rpm (if your running 100% throttle)

4.61 gear ratio between main gear and transmission gear is 9818 rpm.

So yes close to 10K rpm on the tail.

Perhaps if your worried about this your cheapest bet is to maybe go down to running 5 sells instead which would keep the rpm's on the tail down to 8100 rpm.

I myself have not been able to find 11 or 10 tooth pinion gears in 5mm, dont think the pitch allows for such low numbers on a 5mm shaft.

Still believe setting the throttle curve in idle up to a lower number something like 80% would fix your problem without having to spend extra.

I am coming from 450 size heli's with very high rpms and if esky plastics on things like the belt cp didnt explode i doubt this will, the fracture thing is simply a design flaw in my oppinion which is why i will be upgrading it to cnc, not becuase of headspeed but simply becuase i know it will fracture regardless of rpm.