View Full Version : A Little Counterpoint on Mikado Quality
Hi All,
I feel a little misled by all the talk about Mikado quality. I have 16 flights on my Logo 500, and I noticed upon spool down that there is noise coming from the main shaft. So I'm thinking what's up with that? So I take it apart. It's a very involved process getting the main shaft out including loosening the boom and the motor and removing the snap ring -- a snap ring??? Anyway, I get it apart to find that the main shaft is badly grooved by the autorotation bearing. This helicopter has not been dinged. This is just normal wear apparently. As you might guess, I'm not happy. I've already had the main shaft locking collar strip and had to replace it with an Align main shaft collar.
So I look up the part to find out how much it's going to cost me to get it fixed. The regular main shaft is $18. But, and here's a surprise, a hardened shaft is available -- for $34. Since I fly a lot, I'll no doubt need to invest in the hardened shaft. And I'll wait for the part to be shipped in because no one locally stocks Mikado parts.
Now just to compare it to the helicopter that gets knocked a lot on this forum, Align will sell you two main shafts and the locking collar that I had to put on the Mikado for $11. And it's in stock at my LHS.
I'm writing this because people need to know what they're getting into (and because I'm ticked). Am I going to sell the heli? No. It's a great little heli. And I've really started to enjoy flying it. No, I'm going to suck it up, pay the darn $34 and get the thing back in the air. I knew parts were going to be more expensive (over six times in this case:wow2:) and I knew they wouldn't be available locally. That's why I have two Align helis in my fleet so I can keep flying while I'm waiting for parts.
It's a great little heli, but maybe not quite as great as I was led to believe.
Keep 'em flying.:YeaBaby:
LJS
wannaheli
05-25-2008, 11:51 PM
I'm looking to get a 500 size heli and you raised some good points to consider.
LITHIUMSTATIC
05-26-2008, 12:20 AM
My Logo 6003D came with the hardened main shaft.
billyd
05-26-2008, 12:22 AM
Well.... I don't know. I ended up upgrading a dozen or so parts on my 600e in order to get it to fly satisfactorily. I had to buy a different motor, a different esc, a different bec, a new tail, new swash, thrusted tail grips, metal tail pulleys, metal blade holders,...the list goes on and on and on.
If I have to spend $34 to get the only bug out of a Mikado, well I don't see your point.
Your last few posts are completely divergent with my experience.
Panda
05-26-2008, 12:25 AM
Hi All,
I feel a little misled by all the talk about Mikado quality. I have 16 flights on my Logo 500, and I noticed upon spool down that there is noise coming from the main shaft. So I'm thinking what's up with that? So I take it apart. It's a very involved process getting the main shaft out including loosening the boom and the motor and removing the snap ring -- a snap ring??? Anyway, I get it apart to find that the main shaft is badly grooved by the autorotation bearing. This helicopter has not been dinged. This is just normal wear apparently. As you might guess, I'm not happy. I've already had the main shaft locking collar strip and had to replace it with an Align main shaft collar.
So I look up the part to find out how much it's going to cost me to get it fixed. The regular main shaft is $18. But, and here's a surprise, a hardened shaft is available -- for $34. Since I fly a lot, I'll no doubt need to invest in the hardened shaft. And I'll wait for the part to be shipped in because no one locally stocks Mikado parts.
Now just to compare it to the helicopter that gets knocked a lot on this forum, Align will sell you two main shafts and the locking collar that I had to put on the Mikado for $11. And it's in stock at my LHS.
I'm writing this because people need to know what they're getting into (and because I'm ticked). Am I going to sell the heli? No. It's a great little heli. And I've really started to enjoy flying it. No, I'm going to suck it up, pay the darn $34 and get the thing back in the air. I knew parts were going to be more expensive (over six times in this case:wow2:) and I knew they wouldn't be available locally. That's why I have two Align helis in my fleet so I can keep flying while I'm waiting for parts.
It's a great little heli, but maybe not quite as great as I was led to believe.
Keep 'em flying.:YeaBaby:
LJS
Sorry, but I don't see your point! Do you really think these marks on the Mainshaft make the shaft break?? If you don't crash your bird, the shaft will last forever! And: Fait to say, the Logo flies excellent with tuning parts, out of the box - and how many Tuning stuff do you need with the T-Tex?
If you have a crash, and the shaft is bended or broken, you can replace it by the hardened one, but there is no need to replace it only because of some marks!
Peter
BruceW
05-26-2008, 12:52 AM
I have the non-hardened shaft in mine with over 160 flights and just took it apart the other night to find that the shaft has gouges in it from the one-way bearing as you described. Now this is after 160+ flights and it has not caused any problems but I did notice the spool down clicking sound that alerted me. Not sure how bad yours is but it sounds to me that it should not affect your flight.
In the meantime I finally broke down and ordered a hardened shaft instead of the cheap one.
I do understand your issue with the costs of parts and it concerned me before I made the purchase but I also have not crashed or spent any extra money on upgrades so I can't complain. If I crash then I will most likely be hit with a higher replacement cost than with a T600 but I also have been running for 5 months with only replacing worn out links so I think the engineering quality is better and has given me a longer run than a T600E would.
Hi All,
Panda, the bearing surface is shot. You wouldn't fly with a bad bearing would you? It could take out my autorotation bearing or cause radio interference. I plan on replacing it before I fly it again. It's not worth more extensive damage.
Bruce, I wouldn't have said anything if I got 160 flights from it. But I only got 16 flights and I'm down waiting for parts. And it's not just the main shaft. The main shaft collar stripped and was a questionable clamping design in the first place. And there wasn't a shaft in the build that I didn't have to chuck into my drill and sand to get it to fit. There's so much hype on this forum about how great the heli is that I felt people should know that, in reality, we're not talking about Audi Six Sigma quality here.
That said, I am happy to admit that I really love the heli and would still purchase it again if I had it to do over. But the people considering Logos have a right to know this stuff.
And who knows? Maybe Mikado will step up and improve these areas. They've already addressed the plastic motor mounts and the plastic canopies.
Keep 'em flying.:YeaBaby:
LJS
Panda
05-26-2008, 01:32 AM
Hi All,
I feel a little misled by all the talk about Mikado quality. I have 16 flights on my Logo 500, and I noticed upon spool down that there is noise coming from the main shaft. So I'm thinking what's up with that? So I take it apart. It's a very involved process getting the main shaft out including loosening the boom and the motor and removing the snap ring -- a snap ring??? Anyway, I get it apart to find that the main shaft is badly grooved by the autorotation bearing. This helicopter has not been dinged. This is just normal wear apparently. As you might guess, I'm not happy. I've already had the main shaft locking collar strip and had to replace it with an Align main shaft collar.
So I look up the part to find out how much it's going to cost me to get it fixed. The regular main shaft is $18. But, and here's a surprise, a hardened shaft is available -- for $34. Since I fly a lot, I'll no doubt need to invest in the hardened shaft. And I'll wait for the part to be shipped in because no one locally stocks Mikado parts.
Now just to compare it to the helicopter that gets knocked a lot on this forum, Align will sell you two main shafts and the locking collar that I had to put on the Mikado for $11. And it's in stock at my LHS.
I'm writing this because people need to know what they're getting into (and because I'm ticked). Am I going to sell the heli? No. It's a great little heli. And I've really started to enjoy flying it. No, I'm going to suck it up, pay the darn $34 and get the thing back in the air. I knew parts were going to be more expensive (over six times in this case:wow2:) and I knew they wouldn't be available locally. That's why I have two Align helis in my fleet so I can keep flying while I'm waiting for parts.
It's a great little heli, but maybe not quite as great as I was led to believe.
Keep 'em flying.:YeaBaby:
LJS
Hi All,
Panda, the bearing surface is shot. You wouldn't fly with a bad bearing would you? It could take out my autorotation bearing or cause radio interference. I plan on replacing it before I fly it again. It's not worth more extensive damage.
Bruce, I wouldn't have said anything if I got 160 flights from it. But I only got 16 flights and I'm down waiting for parts. And it's not just the main shaft. The main shaft collar stripped and was a questionable clamping design in the first place. And there wasn't a shaft in the build that I didn't have to chuck into my drill and sand to get it to fit. There's so much hype on this forum about how great the heli is that I felt people should know that, in reality, we're not talking about Audi Six Sigma quality here.
That said, I am happy to admit that I really love the heli and would still purchase it again if I had it to do over. But the people considering Logos have a right to know this stuff.
And who knows? Maybe Mikado will step up and improve these areas. They've already addressed the plastic motor mounts and the plastic canopies.
Keep 'em flying.:YeaBaby:
LJS
What I would do - take some shots of the Main Shaft with a short description what happened (16 flights is not very much) and send them directly to Mikado in Germany! Their service is excellent and the owner - Ralf - is taking these sort of things very serious! (you should try to reach the CEO of Align by phone... Good Luck! ;) )
All the best,
Peter
Big Fil
05-26-2008, 03:15 AM
So are you saying that you feel that your Align bird is higher quality than the Mikado?
Hi Phil,
I don't know. The build on my Align helis went a bit better. There were a lot of parts that fit too tight on my Logo 500. But on my Align, I had to squeeze my head block in a vice to eliminate the slop. I guess I'd rather have the parts too tight. And on my Align, I did have a plastic pulley that was way out of round so that I had to put on the metal pulley. So the Align quality wasn't perfect either.
I guess I'd have to say they're about the same. The only difference was that I knew up front about the Align quality issues. People talk about them. Whereas the Logo people seem to have such passion for the their helis that they don't say anything about the problems. That's where I felt duped.
And with regard to the cost of the parts, I guess they have to make their money somewhere. The kit cost only $20 more than my 600E. They're probably not making anything on the kit. I know they have to pay their workers a lot more and they typically have a ton of vacation in Europe. So this is just my opportunity to help keep them in business. And do I want them in business? Darn right!!! They have more helis that I want to buy!
Is the Logo 500 3D worth the trouble? Yeah. It's worth it. That big easy to see canopy, being absolutely vibration free at 2100 rpm, and it's honest flight characteristics make it worth it
Woohoo! I can't wait to get it back in the air!
Keep 'em flying.:YeaBaby:
LJS
Funflyer
05-26-2008, 09:43 AM
Of course Mikado isn't perfect, but they seem to be near the top of the list. Thanks for pointing out some of their shortcomings to help others, but let's keep it in perspective too.
I've built an Align heli and now I'm building a Logo. At first I was a little frustrated that I had to fit components on the Logo, but really that's the way it should be. It is impossible for parts to come out of a factory with a perfect fit unless they over tolerance parts or sort/inspect every single piece and no one wants to pay for those costs. Logo's approach seems to be, get it pretty close and let the builder size the two components for the proper fit. Align seems to shoot for the right fit but sometimes comes up short (sloppy) and you can't usually fix slop. I have to say I'm thoroughly enjoying my Logo build and it's very satisfying to feel how smooth and fluid the mechanics can be when things fit properly.
I really enjoy my Align heli and I know it is a great heli in it's category (450), but I did have to upgrade it quite a bit (luckily Align does a decent job of addressing problems). One of my biggest peeves with Align is their bearing quality, about half of mine had some kind of tick or notchiness. I wish they didn't even include them in the kit because I wasted a lot of time and money sorting and replace them. Try to be vibration free with poor bearings or flimsy plastic...:arggg:
So let's not put the two companies in the same level. Align is a great company that is doing a lot for the masses, but in the end it seems to be quantity over ultimate quality. Logo is on the opposite side of the spectrum with quality over quantity and I think it shows by the quantity of problem threads in this forum. Each company has their place in the hobby and I'm glad I have a heli from each, but if the Logo flies half as well as everyone says it does then I expect my prized Align to become my basher. :lol:
Big Fil
05-26-2008, 11:46 PM
Hi Phil,
Why do you keep misspelling my name?:)
BruceW
05-27-2008, 01:09 AM
Did you ever run the Jazz in mode 1 (non-governor) and run the throttle up too fast? This sounds like there was a lot of torque applied to that mainshaft which could have caused the gouging.
Just a question.
LITHIUMSTATIC
05-27-2008, 01:14 AM
Did you ever run the Jazz in mode 1 (non-governor) and run the throttle up too fast? This sounds like there was a lot of torque applied to that mainshaft which could have caused the gouging.
Just a question.
I have... It was scary and I nearly turned my heli into a pretzel.:arggg:
BruceW
05-27-2008, 01:33 AM
I have... It was scary and I nearly turned my heli into a pretzel.:arggg:
Oh thats right, I remember that now. Well if you had the non-hardened shaft I'll bet it would have been toast.
Hi All,
Sorry Fil, I'm not used to spelling it that way and didn't go back to check the spelling.:noteworthy
No Bruce, I moved my ESC (everything actually) over from my Swift and left everything as it was. So I never over-sped the head. In fact, after I got it installed, I had to bump the governor up from 66% to 74% to get my desired 2100 headspeed.
The thing has been babied and is in perfect shape. I must have gotten a very soft shaft. It was very noisy after the 16th flight. There was no doubt that I had to take it apart. I'll call AeroModel and see if they want to send me a new one. But I fly a lot, so I'll probably need the hardened shaft.
The down time is the killer. I like to fly everyday. And I'm going to miss the Logo while it's down.
Keep 'em flying.:YeaBaby:
LJS
Mercuriell
05-27-2008, 05:33 PM
The down time is the killer. I like to fly everyday. And I'm going to miss the Logo while it's down.
Keep 'em flying.:YeaBaby:
LJS
That's why you gotta have two - and golden rule - crash one - DONT fly the other :arggg: - actually as a Gemini I tend to have 2 of most things .....
helicraze
05-27-2008, 05:37 PM
I think if i crashed one i wouldn't eat/sleep or go to work till its fixed! LOL
actually as a Gemini I tend to have 2 of most things .....
Are your wives OK with that???:rolling
LJS
helicraze
05-27-2008, 05:51 PM
I think if my GF new how much she probably wouldn't be ok.
I already got 2 e-raptors, and soon 2 logo's!
I think its just how it is
Are your wives OK with that???:rolling
LJS
You just haven't learned the trick yet. Never let her see both helicopters in the same room at the same time.
hamslice
05-28-2008, 09:26 PM
the way i see it is if my gf cant live with the fact that i have hobbies and these hobbies make me happy then we cannot co exist together and she will have to leave.
so far we have been together 5 years (living together 3) and 12 helis later she is still here.:)
helicraze
05-28-2008, 09:41 PM
Does anyone know which dampers come stock with the 500 and 600 3D kits??? Is it soft, hard or extra hard???
hamslice
05-28-2008, 09:51 PM
i have been using the green k&B's with one of the stock logo dampeners on the inside and like it very much.
edit:
sorry misread your question. i do not know which comes in the kit.
Hi All,
I just ordered the yellow (hard) K&B dampeners for both my Logo 500 3D and my two 600s. Esprit says they fit all my helis.
I'm hoping that they perform well. Any tips for installation? Hamslice, they aren't big enough without a stock dampener?
Thanks,:YeaBaby:
LJS