Considering coming back to Mikado some questions

[ping]

Hi guys,
I owned a Logo 10 and a Logo 20 a few years ago. I kinda got bitten by the align bug when they hit the market and my last few birds have all been align.

Anyway I'm really considering a Logo 500 V-Bar I have a couple of questions about the V-Bar system and the new Logo line.

I have some 8717's which would be going into my next build, can you run the Vbar on 8 volts or is it limited to 6v?

How hard overall is the Vbar to setup? Is it something that requires constant tuning or can you plug in the settings and go?

How durable is the Vbar head and electronics to crash damage?

[MrMel]

1. You can run it on 8v without issue.

2. Its a bit to get in the beginning, but often you use someone elses setup as a base, and use the forums to get it right (I can always help over MSN if needed, for sample)
Once your setup and tuned it seldom you change it alot.

3. VERY durable, I smashed and trashed my Logo 14 so many times, finding it totally destroyed blades stickout out of the ground, the head held though.
Of course if your unlucky and rip the cable out or so of the sensor its bad, other then that I think the sensor is Ok for 2000G or so :) Main unit is like a receiver...

[helicraze]

I just saw a vbar logo 500 fly today for the first time, looks very direct and stable.

[ping]

Thanks for the replies. I'm still trying to decide between the 500 or the 600, for sure I'm going with the Vbar. I have all the gear to fly either so I guess it comes down to battery costs. Hard choice :(

[Mercuriell]

Thanks for the replies. I'm still trying to decide between the 500 or the 600, for sure I'm going with the Vbar. I have all the gear to fly either so I guess it comes down to battery costs. Hard choice :(

Go 500 - you'll get far more flying in and can always upgrade later - those 10S packs are killer $$$

[ping]

Is your 600 a Vbar Mercuriell? Just wondering how they fly back to back. It's hard to stomach the $500+ pack price on the 600.

[dahld]

I've been using the V-Bar only a few months, and I'm very happy I made the effort to learn the system. But, there are various ways to learn it. No right / wrong here, just opinions. Here's mine.

Rather than install someone else's set-up right from the start, in an attempt to bypass the pain of really learning the system, start from scratch. Using another's set-up means you really don't know what you're getting (especially if you haven't learned the program parameters in the first place), and you haven't really learned much about the system at all.

Go to the v-stabi help web page and/or ask for help to learn how to do the initial set-up that will get you flying, and start with the default setting. It flies like a *****cat at default. Then make changes based on how you want to make the heli fly. You learn the system inside and out as you figure out how and what to change in the program, and, you don't get stuck with someone else's "flying style" set-up, and unable to change it because you never learned the system in the first place.

The shortcut will cheat you out of a complete understanding of the system. OK for some, but I'd suggest the long road.

Take care, Dave Dahl.

[billyd]

My 500 vbar is very agile. But all I did was load the 500 defaults and make a few changes to the rudder gain and the collective.

Of course I am comparing it to a 600e, which is a big lumbering beast, so I am sure I could get my 500 even hotter.

I guess alot has to do with your skills as a pilot. My 500 is capable of more than I can do at the moment. But another pilot might pick up my heli and tx and think it was too slow. Certainly with the defaults and some tweaks to the piro rate (my current setup) my 500 is capable of any 3d maneuver and is very quick. From that point it just becomes how quick and how precise. Do you understand what I am saying?

I have had 8 different helis in my "career" and the logo 500 vbar is just insane compared to all of them.

One other point is that the electronic hardware has alot to do with it as well. The motor, esc, batteries and servos also have alot to do with agility. So it is not just all about the software.

[Mercuriell]

Is your 600 a Vbar Mercuriell? Just wondering how they fly back to back. It's hard to stomach the $500+ pack price on the 600.

No I'm flybarred on the L600 - I have a spare V-Stabi and can't decide whether to put it in the L600, a T600 or my forthcoming MA Stratus. The Logo 600 is awesome out of the box so I'm not real keen on changing anything just yet !

[CRAZYKEV]

What is the deal that I hear about not touching the cyclic before you take off? I am really interested in going flybarless when my L400 shows up, but am worried about it acting goofy. Is it a big deal?

[Flybar-less]

Some other systems take spinning up the blades to initialze. V-Bar is ready as soon as you are.

The deal with V-bar is, the cyclic response and stabilization is high even at low blade speed. No need to touch the cyclic because it is so stable during spool up. If you are used to "wiggling the sticks" during spoolup, the heli will respond!

[billyd]

I find takeoffs trouble free if you don't touch the cyclic during spool up. I think the system is alot more stable if you allow the rotor to come up to speed at zero pitch. Don't forget the system is trying to figure out what you want and make the necessary changes to pitch and roll to do it. If you circle the sticks I can't see how that helps anything at all. It's got to cause some instability at least for a few seconds. When I first tried to fly with vstabi I messed with the cyclic on spool up and nearly had a blade strike, the system went a little crazy for a second.

But vstabi is very quick, so I'm not saying that you will definitely crash or anything. I just don't see the benefit.

[hamslice]

i may be wrong but the way i understand is that

when the cyclics are moved (even a little bit) the v-bar will try to provide the desired motion of the stick. so when the heli is still on the ground and spooling up it cannot provide the little movements because it is being stopped by the ground so the v-bar will keep adding pitch to try to move the heli even though you only moved the stick a tiny bit. it is kindof like a tail gyro as in we dont necessarily control the tail servo the gyro does, we just let the gyro know what we want the tail to do and it then decides on how much the servo moves.

if i am wrong please let me know as i am always up for understanding things better.

[MrMel]

Main thing is that you get same cyclic speed at _ANY_ headspeed.

Meaning "wiggling" the sticks it will simply move the heli that much, with a flybar & slow headspeed nothing will happen, with a VBar it will.

Same thing will throw you off at your first auto too... headspeed decay but cyclic speed will not.

[CRAZYKEV]

I don't wiggle the cyclic at all, but am more worried about if I did accidentally give it a cyclic bump, would it be all over with?

How much did you guys really have to change your take off? Is it wgoffy right off the bat or are some making this out to be a big deal and it's not?

[MrMel]

No big deal at all, I havent changed anything.

The big "issue at takeoff" wasnt an issue and have never been with Vbar, however, sk360 users have had several "tipovers" since that system works differently, at least first firmware that was out.

[CRAZYKEV]

I read that in a SK360 thread and I thought it was that way with all V-bar systems. Sorry for the confusion. I am also playing a bit of catch up :)

[ping]

Just a quick question, how much does it cost to upgrade the head on the Logo 500 flybar head to v-bar?

[helicraze]

$199US then the VBAR is $699US

[ping]

Thats for the whole head? None of the parts can be re-used from the flybar version?

[helicraze]

199 is the whole head, its all different.

[MrMel]

its all different

Incorrect, there is a "upgrade", I think its around $160.
Grips and spindle, bearings are the same.