PDA

View Full Version : A Closer Look at the 200 Head


Pages : [1] 2

Gr4yb3ard
06-02-2008, 11:42 AM
All,

This is going to be mostly text. Wish I had time to figure out how to embed and annotate photos, maybe next time...

A lot of us have found a "click" in the head. Fell victim to bent grip screws. Found dampers not working quite right. Even one case where it seems the spindle wallowed out the head.

I found the click myself, and decided to get down and dirty on this, here's what I found....

First off, the "click" is simply the grip moving in, or outboard along the bearings it houses. Figures 1 & 2 demonstrate this, you can see the gap between the two bearings in the small hole on the bottom of the grips. One shows the grips pushed together, the second pulled apart "CLICK".

The movement of the bearings is NOT a sign of slop in the damper system. Note the picts of the mounted spindle and brass spacers. Everything is lined up on the end of the spindle as the bearings "close" it up.

If these brass, stepped spacers are at the end of the spindle on assembly, there's not much reason to worry, lacking the discussion on adjustment below.

Again, the inside grip bearings "close" the damper system, and the grip screws make sure of that. All the click means is that the grips basically "hang" on the bearings, and are allowed to move inward, sliding over the bearings with pressure, but in flight, they will move out to the proper location, no problems....

It would be nice to have some small washers to adjust the damper pre-load, but they'd be really thin. I've demonstrated this in one illustration of the head on it's side,showing the smallest washer I could find inserted into the system. You can see the large amount that would have to be compressed into the dampers in order for the bearings to seat on the ends of the spindle.

BTW, One gotcha I found, is that one of my stepped-brass-spacers was pretty much welded to the spindle with locktite from the factory. Having gone through this dissasembly and cured that, it flies quite a bit better, watch that one....

Grinding material from the end of the spindle would allow you to compress the dampers as material is removed, but this can only to one way, and a big caveat here as well!!!
If you don't grind the spindle end exactly 90d to the plane of rotation, the grip screw arrangement will tend to take your grips to some angle out of plane.

So, I'd say mess with damper dimension first to adjust. Little, itty bitty washers? Might work, but at this scale I think it would difficult. Grinding the end of the spindle?, I give that a big thumbs down.

From most of these pics, you can get the drift that the grip bearings flush up against the end of the spindle. This is contrary to most heli's, where the spindle goes through the bearings, further into the grips.

This is where the both the reliability of the spindles, as well as the notorious bending of the grip screws comes from.

There is nothing supporting the grips in any direction but outwards, than the strength of the bolt against bending.

Having thought about it a bit, I'm not unhappy with this. I'd rather replace little screws at every crash than the spindle, as most require. And as the spindle is pinned into the head, you really don't need, or want to! Just replace the dampers and screws as needed. It would take quite a crash to bend this spindle, I think...

I've lastly included a mock-up of the spindle, spacer, bearings and bolts to let you see how the bearings sort of "hang" off the end of the spindle. Again, this system seems to work okay, and buying a bag of 2x10mm screws beats buying a bag of spindles any day.

Synopsis: The "click" is normal. The bent grips screws are pretty much a weak link that allows us to save spindles. Damper adjustment is best handled by working with the dimensions and properties of the dampers themselves. If you find a spindle too long to slightly compress the dampers, try a newer one to save yourself some time and trouble.

Gr4yb3ard
"....tool-using pirates... ...scary!!..."

SurfCity
06-02-2008, 01:50 PM
Nice. Very nice. Thanks for taking the time to work through this and document it, too, and for having the chops to understand it. I get it, once explained, but am so inexperienced mechanically that most of the mysterious behaviors just get stashed in the no-see-um-bug file.

Gr4yb3ard
06-02-2008, 04:04 PM
OOHHNOO!

Surf, you'd see this , but for the picky little CSI details that I do.
It's all there, I might see it a bit earlier, but I think you're being nice...

Anyway. Back to being a GAUI-200 Evangelist!

...can I get my old job back???

Gr4yb3ard

Gr4yb3ard
06-02-2008, 09:33 PM
Good that I'm being good, for a change, as well. Let's note Stoat'nChips post a day or so back. He got the goods on the problem well before I did, (just no pics :tongue)...

Gr4yb3ard
"..humbled pirate..."

knucklesdragon
06-02-2008, 11:08 PM
Very nice work!

Those photos will be helpful down the line, once the manual is lost and the head is ripped apart.

I have some shims for the dampers on the blade CP that I was hoping might work.... I went and checked them out, it looked like they were the right inside diameter, but then.... Outside diameter was too big...

Gr4yb3ard
06-03-2008, 02:44 AM
Yes,

Ex-CPPro-er here as well, the d*mned left-over washers were too small.
Like your logo! How many monkeys does that make??

Gr4yb3ard
"...the smart ones leave the clues..."

knucklesdragon
06-03-2008, 08:17 AM
How many monkeys does that make??

12 Monkeys... It's from a movie. It's hard to see in that small of a picture but the logo is actually a clock, the BIG monkey is 6 o'clock

psindrup
06-03-2008, 10:02 AM
Grey

You must have to much time to spare ....

I love you "analysis" though. Thanks a bunch for sharing!! :)

Peter

Gr4yb3ard
06-03-2008, 06:46 PM
Pete,

I've got like <zero> time for most stuff....

...but you clowns? I'll find the time. Any day, anywhere, you guys just ask...

Gr4yb3ard

Gr4yb3ard
06-03-2008, 06:51 PM
Knuckles....

Just checkin, you obviously know your avatar.

<NICE>

I know that movie well. Good choice, for the thinking type...

Myself, I've gotta run back to 1648 for a bit, talk to you all soon..

Gr4yb3ard
"...Salute! <15 - 30lb guns>, KerF**ng boom!..."

littleman
06-03-2008, 08:13 PM
nicely done gr4y.
A.J.

Gr4yb3ard
06-04-2008, 08:16 PM
Thanks man, that means a lot...

Gr4y

littleman
06-04-2008, 09:52 PM
as a relative 200 noob it was really nice to see all that laid, out most specifically that the spindle doesn't bend easily while the screws do. I had not been previously aware of it, and now when i crash I'll know what to check.
Thanks again for your detailed post,
A.J.

Gr4yb3ard
06-04-2008, 10:33 PM
<noob> Yeah, right....

What cyclic servos are you running?
Been through the head with pliers and link-sizer....???

Gr4yb3ard

littleman
06-04-2008, 11:44 PM
I stand behind what I said, I'm a 200 noob. I only have 25 or so packs through it so I havent found all the stuff that you guys who have 100's pf packs through yours have found.
I am running hs-45's on cyclic, and s3154 on the tail. Out of the box all my links were perfect and I did double check because someone did warn me to. So far I havent found any real nasty tendencies in the head, and sans weights it rolls and flips like a champ. At a recent funfly i entered it in a freestyle contest and took 4th or 7 ( :( ) competeing against mainly 90's and a few 600n's. I still try to keep up with this forum to learn more and more about the machine. If I come across poorly please let me know and I'll alter my style a little bit.
A.J.

Buzzkill
06-04-2008, 11:53 PM
Hey we like your style. Your friends with Kyle Stacy and his dad Ray, knows more about the Gaui 200 than anyone I know. Hit him up. He's been MIA for awhile now anyway.

littleman
06-04-2008, 11:57 PM
alright cool just checking,
I still talk to Kyle a few times a week at least, but I havent heard alot from Ray recently. Kyle and a few others, were real helpful getting the basic stuff, but I rely on this forum as much as I can for now until I feel confident enough, to answer and review like you guys do. In the mean time the best I can do is post what I have experienced and go from there!
A.J.

Buzzkill
06-05-2008, 02:02 AM
Well I have a question for ya. How did you set your blade pitch? I've got two pitch gauges (E-flite and Align) and both are realy too big to use on this. So, I eye balled it by seting the blades at a 90 in the grips.

psindrup
06-05-2008, 02:55 AM
Well I have a question for ya. How did you set your blade pitch? I've got two pitch gauges (E-flite and Align) and both are realy too big to use on this. So, I eye balled it by seting the blades at a 90 in the grips.

I managed to use my Align pitch gauge.
Did not exactly fit, but close enough to get a "general picture"

Peter

littleman
06-05-2008, 09:31 AM
I set 0* with a bubble, and trusted that my radio would make everything linear like it was supposed to. I more or less maxed out the pitch. I also did a few full power climbouts right side up and inverted to make sure that it climbed out at about the same speed in both directcions. So basically I just did it by feel, which is i'm guessing not helpful to answer your question but...
A.J.

knucklesdragon
06-05-2008, 10:12 AM
Well I have a question for ya. How did you set your blade pitch? I've got two pitch gauges (E-flite and Align) and both are realy too big to use on this. So, I eye balled it by seting the blades at a 90 in the grips.

"Arghh It looks like this thread has been commandeered mateys" <-in my best pirate voice

I just turn my blades 90* and use a protractor lined up parallel w/ the flybar.

Usually I just eyeball it, but I made some changes to my swash mix last night and wanted to make sure I didn't eff it all up.


***even more off topic, we need some pirate smilies, skull & bones, eypatches & peglegs, parrots on shoulders***

psindrup
06-05-2008, 11:49 AM
I set 0* with a bubble, and trusted that my radio would make everything linear like it was supposed to. I more or less maxed out the pitch. I also did a few full power climbouts right side up and inverted to make sure that it climbed out at about the same speed in both directcions. So basically I just did it by feel, which is i'm guessing not helpful to answer your question but...
A.J.

If you can do climb outs inverted - you are in a league of your own! :thumbup:

Are you sure you belong here? :tongue
(Just kidding - you know that - don't you?) :lol:

How old are you btw, little man?

Peter
51 - first year of RC heli

SurfCity
06-05-2008, 05:44 PM
***even more off topic, we need some pirate smilies, skull & bones, eypatches & peglegs, parrots on shoulders***

And don't forget the music! (http://pagelab.com/yoho.mov)

littleman
06-05-2008, 05:58 PM
18 now i'll be 19 in september.
been flying for 9 years last April.
A.J.

stoatnchips
06-05-2008, 06:02 PM
"Arghh It looks like this thread has been commandeered mateys" <-in my best pirate voice

***even more off topic, we need some pirate smilies, skull & bones, eypatches & peglegs, parrots on shoulders***

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a67/nuggetdie/uberyarr.gif

http://www.smileyarena.com/emoticons/Main/Pirates/laugh.gif

http://www.smileyarena.com/emoticons/Main/Pirates/pirate16.gif

http://www.smileyarena.com/emoticons/Main/Pirates/skull3.gif
[/URL]
http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/155_parrot.gif or a cute version, but not for any self-respecting Pirate.... http://fliiby.com/images/_original/2v12b3k98g.gif

...and a whole load more!!!

[URL]http://www.smileyarena.com/emoticons/main/free-msn-smileys-pirates-1.aspx (http://www.smileyarena.com/emoticons/Main/Pirates/laugh.gif)