600 Phazor Build

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

Agggh,:arggg: couldn't help myself and bought a used Phazor 600. :banana:happyd http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=75592

To fly, I'll need:
Receiver = AR7000

Main Blades = Gohbee 600mm CF

Cyclic Servos = (3) S9252 or HSC-6965HB? Opinions? Or would the new Hyperion DS20's be OK? http://store.rcsupersales.net/servlet/-strse-2007/HYPERION-ATLAS-DS20-dsh-GMD-FULLY/Detail

Batteries = I'm torn. :( I can't decide if I want to go 6S or 8S? The heli is currently geared for 8S, but I've read good things about Xcite batteries, and can get a 6S 5000mah for about $100 less than the similiar 6S or 8S FP batteries. Not really trying to go cheap, but hey I'd love to get 3 Xcite batteries for the price of 2 FP's if they perform similarly? OR, maybe I could go 12S with 2 smaller 6S packs? I see the CC 85HV is good to 50 volts, so it would be OK with 12S? I'll have to re-read some of the post here and make a decision, but it's just such a big outlay initially to get batteries I don't want to buy ones I'll regret later.

I think that's it. I guess I'm just looking for advice on the cyclic servos, and batteries. Currently I'm flying a Beam E4, and heavily modified flybarless Hurricane 550. Mostly sport type flying, with a little sloppy noob 3D thrown in to keep it interesting.

Thanks!
Jason

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

What voltages is the Neu 1907 good for? I know it works with 6S and 8S, but is it OK with 10S and 12S?

Looking at Xcite Batteries (http://www.xcitebattery.com/) I think I could do the following?
6S1P 5000mah (100A cont, 150A Burst, 783g) = $208
8S2P 4100mah (82A cont, 123A Burst, 826g) = $210
10S2P 3000mah (60A cont, 90A Burst, 780g) = $222
12S2P 3000mah (60A cont, 90A Burst, 976g) = $272

For comparison, Flight Power equivalents would be:
6S1P 4900mah (122A cont, 171A Burst, 724g) = $300
8S1P 4270mah (85A cont, 128A Burst, ???g) = $330
Not sure about the larger FP packs.

Thanks,
Jason

[Gohbee]

Congrats on the Phazor 600! I'm glad Dan's machine found a good home. The Neu 1907 is good for 6S and 8S. I think you'll be going over the rated rpm if you try to run it on 10S or 12S. The 1910 would probably be the best for the higher voltages.

-David

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

BTW, I ended up going through David and got the 8S 4270 FP packs, DS8417 cyclic servos, 600mm blades, and receiver. Received everything yesterday and am now just waiting "patiently" for the rest of the helicopter to arrive..... (my finger is getting tired hitting refresh on the DHL tracking website) :YeaBaby:

Hopefully I can maiden it later this week.:banana

Thanks,
Jason

[wren1702]

BTW, I ended up going through David and got the 8S 4270 FP packs, DS8417 cyclic servos, 600mm blades, and receiver. Received everything yesterday and am now just waiting "patiently" for the rest of the helicopter to arrive..... (my finger is getting tired hitting refresh on the DHL tracking website) :YeaBaby:

Hopefully I can maiden it later this week.:banana

Thanks,
Jason


You're going to love this set up!

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

Got the heli this afternoon, and can't wait to get working on it tonight!

I noticed on the swash, there are 3 threaded holes for what appear to be set screws. Are they supposed to be empty?

The swash is super tight, and really hard to move up and down on the main shaft. On my other helis, the head initially was normally close to OK, and just needed a little work on a few tight spots. On this head, everything seems like it will need a bit of work on to get it nice and smooth. Is that normal?

Thanks!
Jason

[wren1702]

Put a drop of Tri-Flow on the swash ball and the shaft, it'll free right up. Some of the links on the head will need resizing to get everything "slick".

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

Got the head all worked out and "Slick". The main culprit was the phasing pins binding up the washout block. I loosened up the set screws on the phasing ring and collective smoothed up. Went through and sized all the ball links, and everything is working good now. :)

I got all the drive gears and belts installed, but there is absolutely NO backlash between the main gear and pinion. Even with the belts removed, there is a fair amount of resistance turning the head, and the gear clicks as each tooth tries to mesh. I don't see any adjustment for this though? What do I do now???

BTW, it's so nice to work on a larger heli. I get to use all my hex wrenches now. :YeaBaby:

Thanks!
Jason

[Finless]

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Let us know how the maiden goes!

Bob

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

Just a quick update. Everything is hooked up and working now! Just need to tidy everything up, charge the main batteries and give her a whirl.:)

The main gear is still a little bothersome to me, but I'm hoping it's just me being use to my 450 helicopters and how freely they spin? I suppose I'll know pretty quick after my first flight.

I decided to pull my Spartan 760 gyro off another heli and put on the Phazor, as this is now my "Flagship" heli. LOL, I was going crazy trying to configure the gyro, and even resorted to watching Finless's video on it to no avail. I was starting to wonder what the freak was wrong with me and why I couldn't get it working correctly. After a bit of searching around I found the answer, you have to push the rudder stick the opposite direction (right vs left) to set the gyro direction when mounted upside down. grrr Makes sense, but the instructions didn't mention it, and I just blindly followed...

So will probably finish everything tomorrow night, and go for a maiden on Wednesday. Can't wait!

Thanks,
Jason

[Gohbee]

Sounding great Jason......:thumbup:

-David

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

With the blades on, and everything set to go, I can get about 5-6 rotations spinning it up as fast as I can with my finger using the OWB. I can barely get 1 rotation when I go against the motor. Does that sound right? It's much tighter that any of my 450 helicopters.

I also just noticed that there is a wobble in the head, from what I assume is a bent main shaft?!? I can't fathom how that happened if it's never been flown/crashed? Spinning it up with my finger, I can see the button oscillate side to side. Could anything besides a bent main shaft cause that? Now I wonder if that is contributing to why my main gear mesh is so tight? It's not a real bad wobble, but definitely there. To late tonight, but I will swap out with a new shaft tomorrow night and see if that solves it.

On the CC 85HV, what motor timing does the Neu like? What start power? I set them to standard, and medium respectively, but was wondering if something else is suggested?

Should I lube the belts?

Thanks,
Jason

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

Turns out my charger only went up to 6S, so I had to wait for my new charger to arrive. Doh

I have the Hyperion Duo, which reads everywhere something like, "charge two 6S batteries at the same time, or up to 12S in 'Sync Mode' ". Cool I thought, this will charge my 8S no problem. Wrong! It will only charge up to 6S. They don't mean physically a single 12S pack, but 2 packs 6S or less that you functionally fly together. I think it's a bit misleading....

Anyways, got my 8S batteries charged, and went to fly her yesterday afternoon. Not sure exactly why, but the CC 85HV burnt out on me when I started to spool up. It spun the blades a few revolutions, and then nothing but the funny burnt electronics smell. sigh.

Stopped by the LHS last night, and purchased a new ESC, and had them look over my installation to make sure I hadn't missed something stupid. Everything looked good, so I'll install the new ESC tonight, and hopefully get her flying this weekend (finally).

Anything in particular I might want to look for to make sure I don't destroy the second ESC? There was no smoke or sparks when the first one gave up, just a slight smell. When I return it to CC for repair, do they tell you what happened? Any chance I can get it replaced at no charge?

Lastly, any preferred settings for the Neu motor, and should I lube the belts?

Thanks!
Jason

[wren1702]

Give CC a call and tell them what happened, more than likely they'll send you a new one along with a prepaid envelope to send your bad one back in.

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

Called and left a message with CC, but haven't received a call back yet.

Hooked up the new CC 85HV and finally did my maiden this afternoon!:happyd Everything went spectacularly, and it flew great. It was pretty breezy out, but didn't seem to need any trim at all! Maybe when it's calmer out, I'll figure out if it needs any trim.

I flew my 2 packs for 2:30 each just to be super safe. I'll see how much I put back in and start bumping up the flight time. After the flight, approx temps were; battery at 110, ESC at 130, and the Neu 150. Ambient was probably low 80's.

This helicopter is a big jump up from what I'm use to, that's for sure. First pack, I mostly did hover, with a few easy punch outs, and just started doing some circuits when the timer beeped. Second flight was mostly circuits, getting progressively faster. This helicopter really carries a a lot of momentum compared to the 450's I'm use to. On one of my first circuits I pulled her around and cruised by about 10 feet in front of me, which I do all the time with my 450. Kind of scared me with this heli though, need to keep it a bit further back! It just sounds so much more impressive than a 450. :)

Thanks!
Jason

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

I got 6 great flights in this weekend. On my seventh, I decided to hook my Eagle Tree up, and take a peak at what the electrical system was doing. About 3 1/2 minutes into the flight, the helicopter started to make an awful grinding noise, and sparks came shooting out of the side. I hit throttle hold, and auto'd down without any problem. I quickly ran over to the helicopter and unplugged everything, and in the process burnt my finger on the motor! It was super duper hot, and by the time I was able to shoot it for a temp (about 90 seconds after cutting power) was still at about 210.

Is there any possible way the Eagle Tree could have cause this? Or did I just get unlucky?

What do I do now? I guess I'll call David at Gohbee tomorrow and see.

For what it's worth, here is the Eagle Tree graph. Mostly just flying circuits with loops and rolls. Still just having fun enjoying the "presence" this helicopter has for me. You can see the amp spike at the end right before I cut the power.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53245&stc=1&d=1214799425

Thanks,
Jason

[wren1702]

How did everything turn out with the motor?

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

I bought a new Neu, and the old one is on it's way for repair. I've put 4 flights in on the new motor (2 yesterday, and 2 today) and no problems so far. Man, I really love flying this helicopter! It's so much easier to handle and see than my 450's, sounds awesome, and just has that super cool presence while being flown.:)

The only thing I now need to track down is a vibe in the tail. Spooling up, the head seems to be perfectly balanced and smooth, but I'm getting a high freq vibe in the vertical tail fin. I tried tightening the tail belt a bit, and that helped, but the vibe is still there. Next I'll try removing the head and spool up and see if I still get it, and make sure it's really in tail and not originating in the head. I didn't balance the tail blades, but only confirmed they weight the same. Anything else in particular I should check?

Thanks,
Jason

[wren1702]

Check the tail belt very carefully, we've had a broken tooth before that'll cause a vibration. The tooth can all be there, but if broken so that the remainder of the tooth is "hinged" to the belt, it'll vibrate like crazy.

[centuryman]

by the looks of that graph you must of hadf a winding short out or a bearing fail in a very bad way. either way neu has good service , my motor was back in 2 weeks.just don't expect to get a new motor from neu in a hurry,the last motor i ordered from neu took 8 weeks to get.NOT IMPRESSED.the guys at castle( the new NEU distrubutor) said that neu is swapmed and about a month behind right now on order's and they're trying to expand there manufactureing facility to keep up.

With 8 week delivery times they won't be busy for long if they don't do something to speed things up.they make awesome motors but 8 weeks is retarded, i'm going scorpion , there motors are cheaper and just as good if not better.and i can have one in 3 days.

[ginnz]

I bought a new Neu, and the old one is on it's way for repair. I've put 4 flights in on the new motor (2 yesterday, and 2 today) and no problems so far. Man, I really love flying this helicopter! It's so much easier to handle and see than my 450's, sounds awesome, and just has that super cool presence while being flown.:)

The only thing I now need to track down is a vibe in the tail. Spooling up, the head seems to be perfectly balanced and smooth, but I'm getting a high freq vibe in the vertical tail fin. I tried tightening the tail belt a bit, and that helped, but the vibe is still there. Next I'll try removing the head and spool up and see if I still get it, and make sure it's really in tail and not originating in the head. I didn't balance the tail blades, but only confirmed they weight the same. Anything else in particular I should check?

Thanks,
Jason

check the feathering shaft too..... my BH 500 had a high freq. vibration in the tailcase i just could not track down, i replaced tail blades (and balanced), then tail shaft, then main shaft.... and it still vibed, so as a last resort, i replaced what i thought was a perfectly straight spindle shaft.

now she's smooth as silk!

and dang, i saw that heli for sale, and was REEEEEEEAL tempted. i just love the look of the phazor 600.....:noteworthy