Protos Set-up

[MikeWz]

Considering buying the protos as a heli to fly around our park area. I really want an Aurora, but I just wouldn't be able to get enough flight time in on it due to the required space to fly such a huge machine. Here's what I'm considering, for those of you who've flown them how does it Sound

Scorpion 1,000KV motor (ready heli says that it needs 1100KV, but the only other option is 1250) (http://www.readyheli.com/Scorpion_Brushless_Motor_for_TREX_500_1000_KV_p/hk-3026-1000.htm)

Scorpion 6-cell 60AMP ESC (http://www.readyheli.com/Scorpion_6_cell_60_Amp_ESC_with_Switching_BEC_p/sw60aesc.htm)

JR 3400G Servos (http://www.readyheli.com/JR_DS3400G_Digital_Hi_Speed_Mini_Gyro_Servo_p/jrps3400g.htm)

JR 7703D/3400G for gyro (http://www.readyheli.com/JR_G7703D_S3500G_Gyro_Servo_Combo_Pack_p/jrpg7703dc3.htm)

Evolite 20C 2500mAH 6S (http://www.readyheli.com/FlightPower_EVOLITE_20C_2500_6S1P_V2_Battery_p/evolite-v2-25006s.htm)

[EricW]

Looks like a nice setup to me, Although I'm a big Scorpion fan, I'm a little concerned about motor Kv choice though...
And i can't really understand the 1100 Kv recommendation they make....
I haven't flown it yet, thanks to work and weather, but the stock motor is a 800Kv motor.
I start with the 15T pinion on 6S, this was recommended as a starting point to me by Corrado...
I also purchased a 16T just in case..
With 1000 Kv on 6S the pinion should be a lot smaller imho, 13 or 14T...
I know they are producing smaller pinions, but i would first search some more info on different Kv and lipo setups.
The heli was tested intensively with the bigger pinions 18T 5S/A123 and 15T on 6S, resulting in +- 2500 Rpm.
This resulted in hundreds of problem free flights, I'm not sure what other (untested) setups will bring..
The heli is still very new, so I hope others can share their experience here??

Eric

[mclaren]

My setup is close, but I am just starting the build.
Stock motor.
Same Scorpion ESC (had to download instructions, not in box)
Same 6S battery
I am trying to get a Spartan DS 760. Very hard to find in stock.
I have ordered the new HS-5085MG ffor cyclic and 3500G for tail due early next week.

I seem to always set up my heli based on what ReadyHeli sells as well. They are just too good with shipping and service with simple site.

ReadyHeli had the new tail pully at my door the day after I recieved the heli.
I

[MikeWz]

Yeah John and the gang over at readyheli are awesome, I'll be ordering everything from them. If the stock motor is 800KV, maybe the Tango 45-08 would be a better choice? I'd love to run a scorpion..but if I need to run around 800KV...maybe I'll just even get the stock motor and the scorpion ESC.

[Philie]

Hi, how many poles is the stock motor?

[KTH]

Stock Motor is 14 pole.

-Keith

[MikeWz]

Has anyone tried this guy with anything but the stock motor on 6S. I'm looking to get a good balance of flight time/power. I'm not doing any crazy 3D so I'm not going to do anything nuts...maybe I'll just buy it with the stock motor

[Philie]

THANKS!


"Stock Motor is 14 pole."

-Keith

[wespen]

My setup:

MKS DS9660 on cyclic (and yes they fit and yes they are fast)
CSM 720 + Ino-Lab 261 on tail
CC60 + stock motor
15T on 7S A123

Wesp

[mclaren]

I have one of the new Scorpion 6-cell 60 Amp ESCs and I can not even fly
with full motor potential due to the lack of soft start.
I have just finished my build of a MSH Protos and the stock motor calls for
a FREQ of 18Hz. 8Hz is a bit weak.

With the weaker FREQ setting of 8Hz the start is so violent that a ball link
on the head split and canopy gets hit with fly bar.
I have the following settings.

LVC: 180 (18.V for 6S)
BRK: 1 (No Brake)
PCT: 1 (50% Reduction of Maximum Power)
MAT: 5 (1.3sec)
COP: 1 (Protection On)
FREQ: 1 (8kHz)
SS: 1 (Soft Start, No Governor) <------This is a Joke!
RO: 1 (Clockwise)
TIM: 1 (Auto-Timing)
SB: 2 (Off)

My normal curve is 0 15 30 40 60 and the heli still rips itself apart due to
the ESC soft start problem.

I am very disappointed in the soft start of this other wise innovative ESC.

[Roadrune]

I have one of the new Scorpion 6-cell 60 Amp ESCs and I can not even fly
with full motor potential due to the lack of soft start.
I have just finished my build of a MSH Protos and the stock motor calls for
a FREQ of 18Hz. 8Hz is a bit weak.

With the weaker FREQ setting of 8Hz the start is so violent that a ball link
on the head split and canopy gets hit with fly bar.
I have the following settings.

LVC: 180 (18.V for 6S)
BRK: 1 (No Brake)
PCT: 1 (50% Reduction of Maximum Power)
MAT: 5 (1.3sec)
COP: 1 (Protection On)
FREQ: 1 (8kHz)
SS: 1 (Soft Start, No Governor) <------This is a Joke!
RO: 1 (Clockwise)
TIM: 1 (Auto-Timing)
SB: 2 (Off)

My normal curve is 0 15 30 40 60 and the heli still rips itself apart due to
the ESC soft start problem.

I am very disappointed in the soft start of this other wise innovative ESC.

Are you sure there's nothing wrong with it?
If you check out customers rewiews on readyheli, it only has one rewiew, witch is pointing out the good soft start....

[flyingeng]

mclaren
see my other post go to option 1 on MAT ,15 sec

[mclaren]

mclaren
see my other post go to option 1 on MAT ,15 sec

Turn the timing down? I saw some other post that say the 1.3sec helped with the hard start.

I will give this a try.

I got an email from Lucien and he said the owner of Scorpion told him a heli version of the programing for the new 60A ESC is due in three weeks.

[flyingeng]

I got an email from Lucien and he said the owner of Scorpion told him a heli version of the programing for the new 60A ESC is due in three weeks.

Does that mean there will be a software update soon then to re-programme our ESC's ? How did the MAT change go @.15 any differrence.

[Cryofix]

7S A123
Stock motor
CC 80 standard advance, high timing, 13 khz, high gov, high throttle speed, medium spool power
HS82MG
+13/-13
401/9254
CG is perfect, A123's slid all the way up

got 7 min 1 sec on one pack of hovering and floating around (was out on a street with limited room)

[Krooger666]

Hi guys,
I'm Mark, from Poland, and I just finished my Protos setup. I flew it around today, and i't's pretty sad what i saw.. It was very slow - probably because of the low headspeed.
The thing I don't understand is the headspeed: I'm running stock MSH26-10 motor, and Scorpion 90A esc (w SBEC) on 15T pinion 6s (2x3s 2250 in series), headspeed at the flat 95% throttle curve is damn low, probably about 2200-2300rpm (i don't have tahometer - i'll check it precisely at the weekend), it scares me, it should have +/- 2700-2800 rpm, and second thought is that it's slows down very much when i do some pitch pumping...

I'm thinking of changing motor for Scorpion 880Kv.. but after watching all videos with stock motor i'm just dissapointed of mine.. main reason i'm writing for help is that i don't now the specs. of the stock motor, and maybe the setup of my esc is inappropriate? Could anyone can support me with the most powfull esc setup for the stock motor (and highier headspeed) - FREQ(ency), TIM(ing)?? How this ESC works with governor function ON ??

Sorry for digging up so old post.
Thank You very much for help.
Mark

[JustPlaneChris]

Mark, I'd say something is definitely wrong, most likely with the ESC settings. I am not familiar with the Scorpion settings or setup, but is it possible that it is not correctly recognizing your transmitter throttle values?

[wespen]

For all I know you better swap that Scorp ESC before it lets the magic smoke out.

Wesp

[ping]

The stock motor is 14 pole, it's possible the Scorpion ESC can't drive the motor to it's maximum RPM. I've looked over the literature for the Scorpion controller and it has no mention of a pole count limit. The Scorpion motors do tend to have low pole counts (6-8 sometimes 10).

If you can try another ESC.

[Krooger666]

so scorpion esc are so bad ? i haven't got any esc.. but a few motors, and they where great except bearings.. some of their motors are 10 poles, haven't seen 14 poles..
what parameter of the esc settings depends on what value of the engine ?
what esc would be better for protoss with stock motor, and later with scorpion 880Kv ? I have read that people use jazz, some do use CC.. personally i don't trust CC, cause I saw few of them smoking right in the air :)

thank You guys,
Mark

[JustPlaneChris]

Mark, even the Jazz can let out the magic smoke. No manufacturer has a 100% success ratio. :)

I'm using the Jazz 80-6-18 in mine, both on the stock motor and the Scorpion 880kv. Works great! Costs a lot.

[Krooger666]

what about my questions about relationship betwen esc settings and motor specs ?
btw i'll probably look into another esc if nothing good will come out of this scorpion

thank You,
Mark

[ping]

The only setting you can change that relates to the motor is the PWM frequency. I won't personally recommend it as depending on the controller you can smoke the controller or the motor.

Also without knowing the maximum RPM the Scorpion can drive a specific motor I can't do the math and tell you for sure it's under driving the 14 pole stock motor. Since you have no tach knowing for sure that your headspeed is low will go a long way in troubleshooting. Judging the difference between 2200rpm and 2700 is pretty hard on this heli as it's so quiet. Lastly make sure your Scorpion ESC is not in Gov. Mode. If your indeed spinning 2500+ rpm you need more pitch.

I originally felt my Protos was really sluggish as I setup for 11 degrees pitch. Increasing to 13 degrees made a world of difference.

I will add that I have been flying Castle ESCs since they started producing ESCs for brushed motors. In all that time I have never had a controller smoke mid flight. The only issues I tend to have with Castle is their reliance on an old controller designs (to be addressed in the upcoming ICE line) and their inattention to the heli community in terms of their gov. software.

Casle has probably the best replacement policy of any ESC manufacturer. They will repair your ESC for 50 percent of it's retail price no matter what you've done to it or how extensive the damage is.

JAZZ controllers are great and by and far the unrivaled leader in any electric heli. They suffer from some minor issues with certain motors but if your motor is compatible your golden. The downside is of course the price.

Finally MSH will be releasing their own branded ESC shortly and it may be worth a shot.

[bapgood]

My Scorpion settings (90A, 6S, V2 Heli):

LVC = 18 (changed, default is 6v)
BRK = 1 (no brake, default)
AIR = 1 (default w/no other choices)
PCT = 1 (default)
MAT = 1 (default)
COP = 1 (default)
FREQ = 1 (8hz, default)
SS = 2 (gov) - Changed to try out Gov worked fine in 1 (default)
RO = 2 (changed, motor dir need switched and i wanted to use the wireless remote)
TIM = 1 (auto, default)
GOV = 5 (med)
SB = 2 (changed from 1 (default) seemed to smooth out start up)
* ss dur = 2 (15sec, default)

I would say something is significantly wrong, based on my setup:

Stock Protos and Motor
15t pinion
weights in flybar paddles

Headspeed = 2100 @ 57% in TX

I was reluctant to go with the Scorpion ESC hearing good and bad, then bad and bad. But it works just fine but in and out of gov mode. I have probably gone threw 10-15 packs setting up and hovering (i should say hovering training - first heli). The first half of which were not in gov mode, and all of which the SS worked smooth and IMO flawless.

Will this last????

Like i said this is my first heli. But with headspead @ 2100 and D/R and EXPO set to 70% and +30, I would not call this thing slow. (but me be newbie to heli)

Mark,
Newbie just throwing out ideas. Is it possible you have two 3S batteries in parallel instead of series or a weak pack.

@ 95% throttle and 15t pinion i would think you be like 2900+.

Rambling now, but that just reminded me. The Scorpion instructions i have state for the gov setup "you can only select values from 50-90% throttle" and I'm guessing the only way the ESC would know this is from the initial setup.

Hopefully some help, Bradey

[NolanManley]

PARALLEL vers SERIES. YES possible if the wrong cable is used to have two 3S packs running as 3S instead of 6S
Parallel
http://www.helidirect.com/images/wires__connectors/EFLAEC307-450.jpg
SERIES
http://www.helidirect.com/images/wires__connectors/AM-8014a.jpg