I Can't Decide to Keep My Ion-X or Not

[TRAMTRAN]

I had a 95% built brand new Ion-X2, I also have motor, ESC, Servos, Gyro, Blade still in box. My problem is I can’t decide to keep it or sell it back to someone else because of the cost of batteries. I went to my local field last week and ask people those are flying T rex 600E. They told me if I am lucky and taking care of my batteries real good, I could get 60 cycles (3d Aerobatic) on any good brand batteries (TP or FP). If this is true then I know I can’t afford to fly this awsome machine. PLEASE OFFER ME YOUR OPINIONS

Thanks

[Jurrien Saelens]

No, that is not true, far from it actually. Of course the lipo is more expensive for a 90 size heli compared to a 50 size.

I started flying the IonX2 (on 12S3700mAh) last year and my lipos are still going strong. I made a couple of videos last week and the freestyle video was done with a 90 cycle lipo. The set figures where done with a 10 cycle lipo. I also have a 120cycle lipo which is still doing very well. I advise you to use a timer.

Here is a link to the video
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=75862

[TomC]

I had a 95% built brand new Ion-X2, I also have motor, ESC, Servos, Gyro, Blade still in box. My problem is I can’t decide to keep it or sell it back to someone else because of the cost of batteries. I went to my local field last week and ask people those are flying T rex 600E. They told me if I am lucky and taking care of my batteries real good, I could get 60 cycles (3d Aerobatic) on any good brand batteries (TP or FP). If this is true then I know I can’t afford to fly this awsome machine. PLEASE OFFER ME YOUR OPINIONS

Thanks


The Trex600e guys must be using 6s setups if they are only getting 60 cycles. They probably would be lucky to get 30 cycles with the crappy align 6s packs imop. The Trex600e, like any 50 sized electric, really only comes to life on 10s setups and it's easier on your packs as well (lower amps).

I've gotten over 200 cycles on many of my 5s1p Evo20 3700 packs and plus 100 cycles on Evo25 packs. The packs seem to perform like new but I've found that the capacity goes down ~5-10% per 100 cycles. Like Jurrien says, use a timer! I target 75% usage and recharge at 1C (3.7 amps in my case).

My Ion-x flys very well on 10s (2x5s1p Evo25 3700 packs) but runtimes are short (~4.5-5 min) and the battery temps can get a tad warm (~120-130 deg F). My 'flybarless' 10s Trex600e with the same packs gives me ~8 min runtime and batteries barely get warm (~100-110 deg F). The flight performance of this Trex600 flybarless heli w/TT tail, is better than my 10s Ion-x imop.

I've recently tried the Ion-x on 15s (3 of these packs in series) and the performance is very good, probably a little better than the flybarless Trex600e, and runtimes look to be ~7 min. The main difference is battery costs, ~$400/flight pack with Trex600e and ~$600 on the Ion-x. Times these costs by three (about the min you need) and this quickly goes up to $1200 versus $1800. Of course the flybarless systems adds another $6-700 to the equation!

The point is, that large electric upfront costs are not cheap. You are easily buying at least a year's supply of nitro fuel right now, plus all the chargers, balancers, and power supplies you need as well. So, if this seems too expensive for you and you do not mind the noise and mess, nitro may be a better option for you. This is probably why Align are selling so many Trex600 nito heli's right now and have introduced a Trex700N instead of an electric version.

For me, clean, quiet power, easier startups, and lower maintenence (less vibrations), makes it all seem worth it to me, but my Wife/accountant may not agree!

Cheers,
TomC

[jrohland]

If your choice is between an electric and a nitro, you would do well to check this thread: $76 a gallon for 30% Heli Fuel? (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=77013). If nitro gets that expensive, electric starts looking much better from an economic perspective.

If your choice is a smaller electric, like a 600, that might make sense. Although, running the smallest batteries you can, like a 6s, you will abuse the pack by trying to get great performance from too little voltage. I got a Razor instead of a TRex 600 because I wanted a 10s not a 6s setup.

jrohland

[helicraze]

Don't forget you are not limited to the trex 600, the Mikado logo 500 is 6S and Thunder Tiger E550 is 6S.

The Mikado logo 600 is 10S if you wish and same for the Thunder Tiger E620SE.

On my 6S machines i must be approaching 50 cycles and still going strong. I expect 100 or so.

[TRAMTRAN]

Thank you for your opinions. I have been flying Nitro heli and have passed all the learning curves. I really love my 600N just fuel and fly for about 12 gallons without any issues. Ion-X2 is my fist electric helicopter and I found that I really having a lot of headache with this mechine (Setting Up and Financial Problems). I properly will sell it and buy a T rex 500 for now untill I pass all the learning curves.

[TomC]

Tram,

Sounds like a plan, but you are going to take a bit of a bath selling things off imop.

Maybe think about just hanging onto all your Ion-x2 bits for later, when battey costs come down, or you are in better financial shape.

The way I would explain it to my wife/accountant is; "For the cost of 3x 12s 5000 Ion-x2 flight packs (6x6s Evo25 5000 packs @ $300 x 6 =$1,800), I could buy a Trex500, fully equipped with 3x 6s Evo25 2500 flight packs." Don't know if this would work, but it might be worth a try!

Good luck and Cheers,
Tom C

[TRAMTRAN]

Thank you for giving me a very good ideas TomC. I really really love this heli and I really hated to let it go. I guess my problems are in a short period of time I have invested too much money in this heli and got stress out from it. I am going to take a break for awhile until my financial getting better then it would be clearer for me for making decision. I have been very crazy about making decision between a T rex 500 vs Ion X2, it's like one day T rex 500 and next day Ion-X.

I currently got stuck with an Ion X single stage that I bought it used through runryder for $1600 for the last two months. and the guy was sending me four bad packs (full charge at 3.9V/Cell) and with junk setup in the heli (I did not know about it until I bought a brand new Ion-X2 and compared). Last two weeks for the first flying test, I crashed it after about two minutes (unknown cause). The heli was spinning like crazy in mid air and smashed in the ground. I was so disappointed and threw everything in my garage now.

I think the land gear design was too weak. it's broke and damage two batteries. Overall, the heli was hold up very well. I would use stratus land gear in the future.

[TomC]

Tram,

A very sad story Mate, I feel your pain.

The landing gear you show on your picture looks the same as the Razor 600e and new Ion-x2 ones. I've got these installed on my 10s single-stage Ion-x (yikes!). They do save ~80g weight compared to the stock Ion-x (original) and the Stratus MA tuff gear. I recently bought a set of CF landing gear for Esprit and they look a bit more robust, and even weigh ~10-20g less than the Razors. I have not had a chance (thankfully) to crash-test them yet but they look pretty good. See;

http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=5053

I'm using these on my current 15s double-staged Ion-x right now.

Hang in there and I'm sure things will come good for you!

Cheers,
TomC

[nicco]

If the packs shows 3.9 fully charge, something is really wrong. What charger do you have?

What voltage is the charger showing when it's charging (at the end of the charge)?

Can you try to charge them in anonther charger. If they still are bad, I would send it back to the seller.

I don't have to buy new packs, I have bought a lot of used packs and it is possible to buy packs for less than haft of the new price. Use paypal and you can allways get help from Paypal to send the packs back if they not are in the condition that the seller told.

/N

[TRAMTRAN]

It was tuff to go into the forum in the weeken with two little kids to answer or ask any questions. I used TP 1010C with 10s balancer charged at 1C. I did complain through Paypal about it but they told me that they can’t do anything about it b/c I bought them through forum.

[TRAMTRAN]

I finally decided to sell my T rex 600N for Ion-X fund. I am going to resale my Brand New Phoenix 110 for PowerZazz. Should I buy any electronic devices to monitor my batteries? What other equipments should I need to fly this heli?

My Current setup

Ion-X2
Gear Ratio: 11.62
Phoenix 110 "I will replace it with PowerZazz63"
1 set 12s TP3850 (I am going to buy 3 more sets)
Cyclic: 8717 @ 8V (connect straight to 2s lipo 7.4V) with specktrum rugulator for Rudd
V-Blade (Main Rotor and Tail)
TP1010C charger with 210 balancer

[TomC]

Tram,

Too bad you need to sell your Trex600N to do this. It's nice to have a couple of heli's going for backup and/or while you are waiting for your batteries to charge. You are kind of puting all your eggs in one basket. Hope it works out ok.

You might want to get an on-line monitoring device to monitor your battery and motor performance. The EagleTree V3 (good to 16s) is a popular one and you can plot all sorts of neat looking graphs with it. The Wattsup Meter (good to 14s) is a lot simpler and just reads out the main things you need to know like peak watts, peak amps, min voltage, and Mahr used by your flight packs. This, together with a timer and a temp gauge is really all you need imop.

Also, try to follow the following 75% rules on lipos and they will last a long time;

-Plan (set timer) for 75% discharge. For your 3850 packs = 3850 x .75 = 2888 mahr.

-Gear things so your peak amps do not go over .75C of your battery ratings. For your 25C 3850 packs this would be = 25x3.850x.75 = 72 amps peak. On your 12s setup this would equate to roughly 3200 watts peak, lots imop.

-While it is ok to charge/balance your packs at 1C (= 3.85 amps in your case), if you have time, charge them at 0.75C (= 2.9 amp). This is a bit easier on your balancer and your batteries.

Other equipment I think you are going to need;

Chargers/balancers; you are probably going to need about 4 of the one TP one you currently have and one or 2x +40 amp power supplies to run them at home (or at the field if you have line power). For on-field charging (without line power) you are probably going to need 2x +75 amphr deep cycle batteries (and good battery chargers for these).

Best wishes and good luck with all this!

Cheers,
TomC

[TRAMTRAN]

Tom,

Thank you for listing out all the informations that I needed to know. I hate to sell my 600N but in my situation I can only fit one heli in my car when I travel to my club field. I had two kids (10 months and 23 months old) with my wife and my heli in the back of the trunk, + I only have 1.5 hours to flight, + I don't want to deal with oil anymore, +I don't really have time to taking care of two heli now.

I've backordered 1 set of TP 3850 mah batteries about 3 weeks ago at heli-world for $400 a set but they still don't have them in stock yet. I probably going to buy four set of FP 3700mah since they've them in stock for the same price but my problem is I am using TP1010C charger, so FP might not warrantly my pack since I am using TP charger.

[hamslice]

they still will warranty the pack, atleast they did for me.

[Chachin]

Hello Tramtram, for heli use, you'll need the programming card for the PJ:

https://www.fxaeromodels.com//product_info.php?products_id=4100

A wattmeter, IR temp gauge, and tachometer are very useful to determine how your electric model is performing. They eliminate all the guesswork.

Will you be using a 2.4gHz radio?

Chachin..

[TRAMTRAN]

I already have IR temp gauge, and tachometer. Yes, I've been using 2.4gHz radio. I don't know anything about EagleTree V3 and wattmeter and I am doing reseach about those two, I like to buy the best as I've learned with my nitro heli "buy cheap buy twice".

[TRAMTRAN]

Does anyone know Power Jazz 63 in stock anywhere? I've been looking but they're all out of stock.

Thanks

[TomC]

Does anyone know Power Jazz 63 in stock anywhere? I've been looking but they're all out of stock.

Thanks

Ya, these seem pretty hard to get right now! I think that most suppliers are waiting for new stock to arrive from Kontronik, Germany. Most have told me "later this month".

Cheers,
TomC

[Chachin]

Hello, Esprit shows it in sotck here:

http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=5733

Chachin..

[TRAMTRAN]

Thanks Chachin, I called them and they said they don't have it in stock.