Kahn10 Motor Impeller Really Works!!

[Wazzer]

Hey Marco!

Your fan really works well!!

For those of you who dont know

Marco (Kahn10) found a small fiberglass impeller from a small household vacuum cleaner made some modes and Stuck it on top of his STD 1100KV Gaui motor and made some big claims about motor temps and run time.

Well

I expressed interest in obtaining a fan from Marco and he very generously sent me his prototype fan for me to test with my Eagle Tree FDR

i ran a series of control runs in stock configuration on my STD 850/890KV motor (not sure what it is!)
Bearing in mind that all my initial test were done late in the evening with just enough light to fly and cool ambient temps

Over half a dozen flights or so i found an average motor temp of 170 Degrees Fahrenheit.

Well after a simple installation (push and glue!) I ran few more test runs
Bearing in mind this time i was flying just before mid day in the sun and it was pretty bloody hot!
(not ideal i know but a strong test)

I was very suprised to see that average temps had come down to 130 Degrees Fahrenheit !!

Temp, in both tests, was recorded at the base of the motor where the motor wires exit the can.

Thats a 50 Degree reduction! at this temp i could hold my finger on the motor no problem.

Have yet to study the data in detail but i am pretty sure the current draw is also a little less will try to post some pics a bit later.

Here is a link to Kahn10's original post with pics http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=635720&postcount=23

Will try to add Eagle Tree data Later on

I think these fans or similar are worth pursuing for those of us running Gaui motors.

hope this info is of interest.

Ben
Chief tester for MCP!!
(Marco's Cooling Products)

[mysticmead]

.......
Over half a dozen flights or so i found an average motor temp of 170 Degrees Fahrenheit.............


I was very suprised to see that average temps had come down to 130 Degrees Fahrenheit !!................

Temp, in both tests, was recorded at the base of the motor where the motor wires exit the can.............

Thats a 50 Degree reduction! at this temp i could hold my finger on the motor no problem.



Bob.. Please check on Ben.. he's been flying in the mid day sun and it has obviously baked his male model brain (do they have brains?) he thinks 170-130=50 when it really equals 40




Ben.. was that your hurri you tested on?? or did you finally get the CF one from Bob after finishing him off??


seriously though.. glad you were able to reproduce the results of the fan.

[hommer75]

:Pics

besides the original thread of course....

[Jungle Bob]

I am back in the UK for three weeks (yuk, only been here for two hours and I hate it already). If it wasnt for my three lovely girlie lodgers it would be all bad. The weather is nice (I think today may be summer!) so that's a plus. Maths should be Ben's strong points...he gives us the expert advice on the villas we are building in Borneo so his simple subtraction error is somewhat worrying!! Blame it on the sun I suppose. I was with him when he tested the fan and the results were quite remarkable. Yep, he's got my heli over there and I am just charging up a little Twister Bell 47 I keep here for playing. I kno I am gonna be bored without my Hurri and Ben's skills are racing along.
I WANNA GO HOME ALREADY!!!

[mysticmead]

glad to see you made it to the UK safe and sound...then again it just gives Ben more time to become attached to your CF hurri and plot your demise...

you should plan a trip to the states sometime.. I'll even offer you a place to sleep

[kahn10]

good sh1t ben(and thanks for sh1t jb..... one of your earlier posts moaning about borneo.my heart it bleeds for you).kinda tied up at the mo but i'll try(again) and post some pics of mark 2 in a bit.your motor ran a hell of a lot hotter than my 1100 kv tho.seriously couldn't melt an ice cube with mine.soon as i get a chance i'll have a blah blah about it

[Wazzer]

Bob.. Please check on Ben.. he's been flying in the mid day sun and it has obviously baked his male model brain (do they have brains?) he thinks 170-130=50 when it really equals 40




Ben.. was that your hurri you tested on?? or did you finally get the CF one from Bob after finishing him off??


seriously though.. glad you were able to reproduce the results of the fan.


Ah yes .... erm..... you may be correct 170-130 does in fact = 40

Congratulations you win prize for Smart Ass!!!!

hehehe

[Wazzer]

:Pics

besides the original thread of course....


check this link

http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.ph...0&postcount=23

[mysticmead]

Ah yes .... erm..... you may be correct 170-130 does in fact = 40

Congratulations you win prize for Smart Ass!!!!

hehehe



:bananaWOOOHOOOOO party time.... I won I won I won!!!!!!!! all Beers are on Wazzer!!!!!!!!!!:banana:cheers:cheers:cheers:cheer s

[kahn10]

mark 2

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50396&stc=1&d=1212720362
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50397&stc=1&d=1212720362
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50398&stc=1&d=1212720362
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50399&stc=1&d=1212720362
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50400&stc=1&d=1212720938
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50401&stc=1&d=1212720938
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50402&stc=1&d=1212720938
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50403&stc=1&d=1212720938
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50404&stc=1&d=1212721369

[mjdee14]

Ah yes .... erm..... you may be correct 170-130 does in fact = 40

Congratulations you win prize for Smart Ass!!!!

hehehe

Presented by the winner of the "Dumb Ass"....hope the Villas don't fall over...:nanabobo (I know I'll pay for that in the future)...:arggg:

Would love to see the results of flight time difference, amps, etc.....

It's so easy to build a fan into the motor like the Z20...don't know why Gaui didn't do it themselves.....I would like to know who the Fraak ( Future term from Battle Star Galactica...wonder what it means?) tested these freaking things before selling....?? Don't know how they could sell them for use with 18c lipos :thumbdown:

[mysticmead]

that looks Great!! almost like it was supposed to be there.. and like MJdee said.. it's soooooo easy for them to integrate a fan into the top of the motor.. heck.. if you look at the Gaui UPGRADE 1100kv 1500w motor.. it has one. With todays power systems and the extreme flying that is being done, there's no reason to not have a fan top motor. there's also no excuse for Gaui to even bother selling a motor with a kit that isn't a fan top. I bet that if they started including the fan top motor in the kits, people wouldn't be so quick to dump them for a better motor

[Jungle Bob]

Hey Mystic, if you do manage to get a beer outta Ben.....let me know.....it may be his first time and I would like to note it in my diary! hee hee. Here I am *****ing around with my Bell 47 (twister contra) and I am already bored with it.....one day gone woohoo, soon be back home. Ben, get busy mate, no time to fly!! Remember our deadline!!! and..errr....I don't want you to be better than me when I get back! Right then, I'm going back to the twister....can contra go inverted!!!??!!!

Missing my Hurri!

[mysticmead]

yes Bob.. you can go inverted with that twister...will it fly inverted... no... but it can go inverted all the way to the floor...:D maidening my hurri this weekend... Bet Ben will come up with some story about how Bob's hurri was stolen or something... but he was lucky enough to find a great deal on one that was posted on eBay...and he got it for a "steal" of a price...

[kahn10]

thanks mystic.... yeah shiny.hopefully ben gets some hard data about amp draws flight times etc.kind of blows me away how hot his motor runs with and especially without the fan on top.don't know if thats the difference between the 1100 and the 890?850? or the ambient temps where he is.would be interesting to know throttle curves etc cause i think you can run much higher ones with the motor mod cause its alot more efficient.it would be cool to see comparisons between equivalent z motors and gaui motors as well.how warm does a z20 get?if energy is a constant it only changes form how much does it take to make a mass the size of our motors so hot or even warm especially considering their getting some form of cooling from the rotor downwash.cause my fans so much bigger it cools alot more than the normal fan tops i've got the feeling they could be fitted to any motor and provide higher efficiency more power and longer flight times. plus it really seems to stop my battery and esc getting hot.......could be completely wrong

[Wazzer]

Hey Marco your Mk2 fan looks great where did you find that one?
Was it part of another domestic applience in a former life?

I will get the eagle tree data posted later on, when i started this post i was on my works computer wich is where i had the before data stored, and now i am on my home computer where i have the after data stored and i need both to do the final report!!

will pop into office later on and get the other half of the data

Will post some graphs of Temp vs Amp draw and will post full set of detail; about heli

ie head speed gearing throttle and pitch curves

then we can get some real idea as to what is happening.

[Wazzer]

Hey Mystic

Yep Bobs heli is stipped and all over my Workshop!

Its like a Heli Chop Shop at my house at the moment!

I bet Bob couldnt identify all the parts from his heli when he gets back especially now ia have changed thhier identity!.

He is very trusting at the moment as not anly do i have his full Heli set up, Incuding his Trex 450 V2 I aso have all the batteries we share, his new charger, his TX (FF9) AND his other pride and joy his Vmax motor bike!!

So he better be real nice to me!!

By the way Bob your bike rides much nicer than Daves. (will ignore the front end wobble as that will sooon be cured!) The suspension is much more forgiving not as harsh as Daves bike and also there is much much less slack in the drive line. It doesnt feel as quick as daves bike though. but Man you GOTTA do the baffle mod as your bike is way too quiet!! Will see what i can do before you get back.

With the new front wheel installed it will be a very very nice bike and a joy to ride.

See ya soon buddy.

[Jungle Bob]

My Hurri, My Rex, My Vmax....man have you no shame???? Thankfully Mrs Jungle is still at home....errr...well she was last time I checked! No mods on the Vmax please, I like slinking about rather than thundering in like Dave (thats why I fly electric!)! Have the parts arrived in for Hurri tail and Rex servo yet? Sorry to dump you with all that stuff. So Mystic, how was the Maiden? Great heli eh?

[Wazzer]

Sorry for long delay but here are the Eagle Tree Graphs

I have only plotted Temp V Amp Draw for these particular graphs
Let me know if there is anything else you want to see on this graph.

First three are motor WITHOUT fan
Last two are motor WITH fan

Heli specs
Pinion: 13t
First Gear: 42t
OWB: 19t
Main Gear : 61t
Head Speed: 1900-2100
Motor: Gaui 850KV


As you can see from the Graphs the temps have come down quite considerably but it doesn't seem to have much of an effect on the current draw.

If we were to improve the efficiency by removing all that heat should we see a reduction in Amp draw as well?

If any one can shed some light on this please let us know.

Cheers

Ben

[Mikej]

Ben,

Just my guess, but I think what you are seeing is that you are cooling the motor rather than making it more efficient (which makes sense since you are not changeing it's fundamental properties). Heat is created as a by-product of the motor "doing it's thing", a more efficient motor shouldn't create as much heat, but by making Marco's mod you are not reducing the amount of heat created, but disippating the heat more effectively.

Just my 2 cents and quite possibly completely wrong :)

Cheers,
Mike.

[mjdee14]

Wazzer...

I think you need to add mah used in the graphs.....you seem to be averaging about 20 amps draw on each graph...and as Mike said your reducing the temp....

But to see if your really gaining anything you need to correlate the amps, temp, and mah used, vs flying time to see if anything is gained......

Now obviously whether you gain anything or not it has greatly reduced the temp of the motor, which has always been a problem with the Gaui motors, and most everyone's complaint. So that is a good think in itself.

Repost and add the mah....and we can see what is going on....also...are the same batterieis being used in each flight..?

Thanks for taking the time to do the testing...it's interesting to see...

Mike D...

I'm sure your using Bob's heli while he is away.....wouldn't want to take a chance on dinging yours in....

[Wazzer]

Ben,

Just my guess, but I think what you are seeing is that you are cooling the motor rather than making it more efficient (which makes sense since you are not changeing it's fundamental properties). Heat is created as a by-product of the motor "doing it's thing", a more efficient motor shouldn't create as much heat, but by making Marco's mod you are not reducing the amount of heat created, but disippating the heat more effectively.

Just my 2 cents and quite possibly completely wrong :)

Cheers,
Mike.

Thats what i was thinking but it seems to contradict what Marco Kahn10 found when he added the fan to his 1100KV motor.

He found longer flight times and much cooler batteries which should mean lower amp draws but thats not what i am seeing.

Maybe his 1100kv motor was just a good one to begin with??

mjdee

Not much point in graphing mAh as well as i was using different batteries in each flight ranging from 2500's to 4100's all 20c though.

I didnt notice any difference in flight time from what is normally observed with out the fan.

I think i will keep the fan on as lower temps inside the Canopy can only be a good thing and so far no negatives to having it on the motor.

Cheers all

[kahn10]

hey ben - been busy.....yeah mark two....many vacuum cleaners died.to tell you the truth(cause everything else was lies?stupid saying) turns out some chinese guy didn"t do his sums right and the local vax agent has 2 or 3 thousand hand vacs that fry their electronics the third time anyone turns them on.makes you wonder if walkera decided to take align on in two fronts.....been thinking about your motor.could you check if you have the vanes lined up as well as possible with the gaps in the motor bell housing.i know when i fitted it to mine i turned it round alot before i was happy with the way it lined up,unimpeded air flow is the trick to get the most cooling effect.when i was happy with it i also glued around the base so it was sealed on top of the motor.i was surprised at how hot your motor still ran.mine also was originally almost to hot to touch but after fitting the fan was barely luke warm.i think thats the reason i got much cooler batteries and esc + longer run time. mike(and ben) no the fan doesn't sort out the original inefficiency of the motor.but i'm fairly sure that inefficiency factor must massively increase as motor gets hotter.that is where big power savings can be made.i'll try and get a thermometer and take some temps off my motor and post them for you to compare.mystic congrats on a good maiden - your hurri looks awesome. don't be too keen to ditch the little fella tho.i know when i picked up mine again the hurri had made me alot more comfortable flying it and now i like to throw it round when i'm feeling loose rather trash that than my hurri(t wrecks ha ha....)mike isn't it a buzz when one of the pro's compliments you on your set up.it cracks me up the look of amazement the old school nitro pro's get on their face when they fly our hurri's.the power and maneuverability seems to stun them.my mate whose the hirobo agent for nz was shaking like a leaf after he flew my hurri.the bastard can fly too it was hell impressive to watch.and lastly.....i gotta ****ing learn to type with another ****ing finger cause this ****ing finger ****ing hurts:rolling

[Mikej]

Well done Marco - you've answered a week's worth of posts in one go, no wonder your finger hurts :thumbup::YeaBaby:

hey ben - been busy.....yeah mark two....many vacuum cleaners died.to tell you the truth(cause everything else was lies?stupid saying) turns out some chinese guy didn"t do his sums right and the local vax agent has 2 or 3 thousand hand vacs that fry their electronics the third time anyone turns them on.makes you wonder if walkera decided to take align on in two fronts.....been thinking about your motor.could you check if you have the vanes lined up as well as possible with the gaps in the motor bell housing.i know when i fitted it to mine i turned it round alot before i was happy with the way it lined up,unimpeded air flow is the trick to get the most cooling effect.when i was happy with it i also glued around the base so it was sealed on top of the motor.i was surprised at how hot your motor still ran.mine also was originally almost to hot to touch but after fitting the fan was barely luke warm.i think thats the reason i got much cooler batteries and esc + longer run time. mike(and ben) no the fan doesn't sort out the original inefficiency of the motor.but i'm fairly sure that inefficiency factor must massively increase as motor gets hotter.that is where big power savings can be made.i'll try and get a thermometer and take some temps off my motor and post them for you to compare.mystic congrats on a good maiden - your hurri looks awesome. don't be too keen to ditch the little fella tho.i know when i picked up mine again the hurri had made me alot more comfortable flying it and now i like to throw it round when i'm feeling loose rather trash that than my hurri(t wrecks ha ha....)mike isn't it a buzz when one of the pro's compliments you on your set up.it cracks me up the look of amazement the old school nitro pro's get on their face when they fly our hurri's.the power and maneuverability seems to stun them.my mate whose the hirobo agent for nz was shaking like a leaf after he flew my hurri.the bastard can fly too it was hell impressive to watch.and lastly.....i gotta ****ing learn to type with another ****ing finger cause this ****ing finger ****ing hurts:rolling

[kahn10]

cheers bro. hows that tail servo going. i was thinking of getting some of the atlas servos(and a programming thingamejigger) they make specifically for cyclic to replace the futaba s-148's i'm running cause the price of the high end digital's well...... shits me
marco