Looks like the NATS and IRCHA are still seperate events 06

[rotorblade17]

Saw this on RR.. looks like the idea of combining them has already been put to rest..

I have been asked to take over the running of the scale event at the Nats starting in 2006, with a view to raising its profile. I have been discussing the situation with Craig Bradley and the AMA and we have decided how we are going to run the event next year.

Firstly, 2 channels in the 72MHz band will be set aside exclusively for scale use. These will be made known in January when the applications are sent out.

We will also have 2 exclusive areas to work in. The first is the patch behind the Rv's in the cornfield which is fine for tuning up and practising your mandatory maneuvers. The second area is about 200 yds to the right of the main flightline which will be good for practising your free flight. This area will be where we will do the static judging on Saturday morning and the first round of flying on Saturday afternmoon. It will be away from the rest of the field so the pressure will be much reduced as you know only other scalers will be watching, and once you see them fly, you will realise your flying isn't that bad after all :M

This round will probably be the one you want to discard and will allow you to set your machine up and get used to the event.

Sunday morning, bright and early, we will have the second and third rounds of flying, center stage with everyone watching, but by now, you will be confident in your machine and you will have seen how much better your flying is than anyone elses. Prize giving will happen at Lunchtime on Sunday and you will be able to get away and hopefully, if you dont have too far to travel, be back home in time not to have to take time off from work.

I hope to have experienced judges, and have collared 2 of the best. I want one more so a volunteer will be appreciated. As there is nothing in it for the judges, I have elected to sponsor the event to the extent of paying the judges expenses, flying or driving out and their hotels. So, if anyone fancies an all expenses trip to sunny Muncie for the weekend, get in touch.

This is only going to work if we get a significant number of entires and I have been promised several so far, but we all know that S*!t happens and sometimes folks just cant make it, but a minimum of 6 at the field is what I am looking for. If we get this number or more, then I will continue to run and support it, but if we dont, then I will back down and the event will probably end up being part of IRCHA. If you think thats a good thing, when it actually happens, you will find out its not. Occupying 8 or 10 frequency pins and shutting down the flightline for a few hours while you run 2 or 3 rounds of flying will have the 3D guys complaining like mad.

So, if you have aspirations to compete with your model, please enter the Nats next year, have a go and see what its all about. There will be some top guys there to give you good advice on your model if you want it and maybe you will go home with a trophy.

I am told that it will be possible to do the entry on line as of this year so that will make it easier.

I will repost this when the entries are due but now is the time to start polishing that scale bird and your flying to be ready for July. At the moment I believe the Nats will be starting on the 7th, but I'l confirm that date later.

Peter Wales

[KandB]

I was hopping they would be at the same time next year!!! It is very hard to get time to do them both. I just bought a scale kit for next year hopping it would be at the Jam. I guess it will just have to look good on the table at the jamboree. Just to hard to say I can do both this far out!!! I wouldn't miss the IRCHA Jamboree but the nats just isn't as fun without all the Heli Guys!! :dontknow (bell 230 with uni mechs may be for sale soon)

Kevin

[WillJames]

Yea that is ashame.....

I think it could be the best thing to ever happen to the heli world to expose all the Jambo Heli People to more Scale. I am interested myself.

[Heli_jack]

Will, just jump in, build that scaler and go for it. If you don't have the time to build one up, I can build whatever you want.
Jack

[Christopher J]

I was hoping to see these events combined myself as I can't make the trip twice.

[KandB]

This letter was sent to Peter Wells
I guess they are not going to let them hold the nats(scale at Ircha). That is what I have seen posted on RR and Helifreak. They would like to see 6 scale helis at the nats and call that good? If you built a race truck you would take it to the races were there are allot more to race with. Why would you take it to a go cart track to see 5 others. If they want to build up scale heli comp. they need to bring it were the biggest event and where the most scale helis are found. IRCHA Jam.. Most of the people that would like to try scale can't take the time off to make both trips! You can go to see a few go carts or you can go see the best of the best and that would be IRCHA Jamboree 2006. It just makes common sense to have it where it does have the chance to be a great event. Not just 6 helis for the whole USA. Hell Emil brings that many to fly at IRCHA.

Kevin

[Heli_jack]

Pretty damn bold of you Kevin, I challenge you to post his full response. I know Peter.
Jack

[KandB]

I have had no response!!! I just thought if you wanted a great scale contest take it to the place it will get the best press and turn out!!!!!! How many people go and watch the scale helis at the nats? I am sure it would be a small number! If it were at the Jamboree you would have a few mags covering it as well as several video companys and many differant countrys. Doesn't it just make good since. Am I missing something? I have never done scale but thought I would next year if they would do it at the Jamboree. I will still work on a scale for the Jam, It has more of a chance to get in a picture there that at the nats!!

Kevin

[Heli_jack]

Kevin,
His response could be delayed because of the hurricaine. Yes, you are missing something. Us scale folks have been treated like crap, almost like plankers treat any heli pilot.

Wrong attitude for a reason to build a scale on your part....to get in a mag. Scale is a labor of love. A whole different mindset, and I am finding it difficult to not just blast you big time, but I am keeping cool here, because you obviously do not understand the scale mindset.

The reason Circumgyration does so well is because it is mindset of the folks. The get upwards of 50-60 pilots many bringing multiple scale models that have taken years to complete to perfection. Peter Wales goal is to see the scale modeler get the respect and devotion that he has seen at Circumgyration and overseas. His building skills are just awesome.

Us scale heli people are treated as second class heli pilots, second class scale builders, and looked down upon by serious scale plankers. We put more money, more time, and risk a hell of a lot more every time we fly. You can't just go to the LHS or order replacement parts over the internet for a scaler, many of our parts are one of, custom made. (For example my current project required I make my own fuel tank........that took a week.)

Jack

[KandB]

You really see it from the wrong side!!! I have flown airplanes for 30 plus years and helis for the last 5. If you have never been to Ircha I understand where you are coming from!!! If you can get 50-60 scales at a meet why can you not get them to the Nats? There are alot more than that that show up to the Jam!!! More people want to get into scale, Not everyone is a hot dog pilot. But we all go to the Jamboree and last year if you were not there it was not about us and them!!!!!! But us (heli people) doing what is best for us all!!!! People that stand to the side and label that person a scale planker, he is a scale heli flyer, and that person is a 3d pilot. Just wants to divide the group to smaller numbers!!!! I know alot of people that can do all the above. I see where you are coming from but I know the amount of money and time it takes to do a great job!!! I do helis for me and my enjoyment but enjoy the nice people that do it too. You can blast me if you want but you will only put yourself in the group that wants to divide and not grow the hobby as a whole. Kind of like the Planker vs the helicopter thing!

Kevin

[Peter Wales]

This letter was sent to Peter Wells
I guess they are not going to let them hold the nats(scale at Ircha). That is what I have seen posted on RR and Helifreak. They would like to see 6 scale helis at the nats and call that good? If you built a race truck you would take it to the races were there are allot more to race with. Why would you take it to a go cart track to see 5 others. If they want to build up scale heli comp. they need to bring it were the biggest event and where the most scale helis are found. IRCHA Jam.. Most of the people that would like to try scale can't take the time off to make both trips! You can go to see a few go carts or you can go see the best of the best and that would be IRCHA Jamboree 2006. It just makes common sense to have it where it does have the chance to be a great event. Not just 6 helis for the whole USA. Hell Emil brings that many to fly at IRCHA.

Kevin

I think you forgot to press send Kevin, or you did send it to Peter Wells and not to Peter Wales. Either way, ity hasn't arrived, which is why you have had no response.

Firstly, no one would like to see 6 scale helis at the Nats. I would like to see 20 scale helis at the nats, but no one goes to the Nats to see anything, they go to compete. There are very few if any spectators. Consequently I have no intention of trying to appeal to them, they wont be there.

I have tried to address the time off thing by making it a weekend only event, but realistically, if you go to IRCHA for 4 days, how many scale flights do you get in? This is an event with 400+ pilots registered all looking to show off their considerable skills at flipping and flopping around all over the place trying to get nearer to crashing than the next guy. Personally, I wouldn't fly with any of them in the air, they are out of control.

Now, lets look at the logistics of running the Nats scale event at IRCHA. Lets say we get 20 entries. wouldn't that be something? We would have to find somewhere quiet to get the static judging done so the golf carts would be busy for a little while. Then comes the flying part. Each pilot is going to need 10 minutes. He has to start, do a test hover, go through the mans and then do a 2-4 minute free flight, land and clear the field. 10 minutes is about right. There are 20 pilots! So thats 200 minutes for a round. And the rules say 3 rounds so thats 600 minutes of scale flying, if everything goes smoothly and no one has a crash or engine that wont start or any other delay, like lunch. So, you want to tie up a flight line and 20 pins for 10 hours while 400+ 3D pilots are champing at the bit? Hah!

So, you arrange it so that it fits in with everyone else, a little here, a little there, some before dawn and some during lunch break. Thats what has been happening at the Nats and as far as I am concerned, scale pilots need and rate much more respect than that.

So, lets run the National scale helicopter championship at the Nationals where everything will be geared up to accomodate 10 hours of scale flying, just like it is for FAI and all the other classes. Scale is 2nd class no longer.

Now, if you want to build a scale helicopter just to get your picture in the paper, you go right ahead and fly it at IRCHA. I am sure you will enjoy being famous for your achievement. I agree with Jack, thats not the reason most of us build scale helicopters.

Finally, I have said that if we dont get more than 6 good entries, then my experiment will be a failure and I will not be running the event in the future. In that case, it will very likely go to IRCHA and then you can run it. :twisted:

[KandB]

I am glad to get a reply from you but still have missed the point!! The most exposure for scale heli is what I wanted!!! I don't do any of this for a picture or fame and don't want any and may not have one there!!! Now I can see why scale is were scale is! You don't need 20 pins you only need 3 and post them 6 months ahead of time. Center flight line is empty and for you to use. I would be glad to Help, If you don't want any part of it I understand where you are coming from. Dr. Tim and Emil have a great time at the Jamboree I am sure they would be glad to help too. It is not nice to talk about other peoples flying just because it is not for you!

Sorry you don't enjoy the Hobby as a whole :D

Kevin

[Peter Wales]

Well you were the one going on about getting your picture in the paper, not me.

There is nothing to stop all of the guys who compete at the Nats going to IRCHA and doing their thing.

I dont understand what you mean by center flightline is empty and free for us to use. Do you mean that there will be other pilots flying either side of us?

Its not a question of me nothing wanting any part of it. I am committed to be in Europe every year during July and August so I simply can't make IRCHA. I have other scale competitions to run and enter over there.

You also seem to want to pick a fight with me over my comments referring to 3D pilots. When you have spent 18 months building a model and invested thousands of dollars in it, to have your average 3D pilot flying any where near you is very nerve wracking. These guys dont know where they are going next and it is impossible to predict what they will do next so you cant avoid them. When you get round to building and flying a super scale model which you have put your heart and soul into, maybe you will understand.

Meanwhile, I am very happy to flip and flop my turbine Cuatro around the sky, but only when I am the only one in the air. You see, I can be just as much out of control as anyone else.

Also, FAI flying is rather lacking in new blood, would you like them to run their competition at IRCHA as well? If you have ever watched an FAI competition, you will understand the meaning of boredom. I think 10 hours of scale center stage would be equally as boring to watch.

[KandB]

Center is the middle flight line down by the shower house about 3/4 a mile away and no body else would be flying just scales!!! Just trying to get to work for everyone!!! Like I said I would help!

Kevin

[3DWannaBe]

damn, so what does this Peter do for the scale? You sound like the local club that says they want more members but shun every one who comes to the locked gate.

keep on Kevin, I agree with you. More exposure could build the scale side of the hobby(if you can take the apparant scale attitude :roll ) it should be painfully obvious to Peter and Jack, that is if they want to build scale. The macho "just go build yourself one" is not what heli flying is all about, but you can see they just don;t get it.

I guess you can tell what they think of 3D. That attitude is really going to get you some where. :arggg:

[Peter Wales]

Well maybe you will get your chance to help, but not next year.

You seem to think that the Nats is an exhibition for spectators. The only people who go to the Nats are the competitors and their helpers.

The competition which happens at IRCHA which is a diluted version of the Nats, can and probably will still happen, but with only one round of flying as usual. Those who want to watch the scale guys will still be able to see what they would see at the Nats, but without the Kudos or pressure, and I think its the lack of pressure which gets so many people to enter the competition there.

I can only try to make it work my way, if it doesn't work then I will be happy to step down and let someone try it their way. Time will tell, so you will just have to wait and see wont you.

[DavidH]

Peter,
You have made great points. I know you have been involved with the hobby a long time. I agree with what you have said. Dr. Tim won the 2005 Scale Nats for helis and I believe he would agree with all your points also. Yes the scale contest gets a few entries at the Jamboree. But I also agree it is a diluted version of the 518 rules that is used at the Jamboree. I know if I had built a super scaler, I would definetly only want to fly it when it was the only model in the air. Even at the Nats each year, the scale helis are the only models being flown when the flight portion of the scale Nats are being held.
If I can be any assistance for the 2006 Nats. Just let me know. Welcome aboard the Heli Nats crew. Looking forward to seeing you next July.

David

[Peter Wales]

Thanks David,

I'll do my best to get a good turnout and its nice to know you will be there to help if needed.

Peter

[Peter Wales]

Thanks David,

I'll do my best to get a good turnout and its nice to know you will be there to help if needed.

Peter

[Heli_jack]

3D,
Research will show you Peter is THE scaler in this country. In the scale community when Peter talks everyone else (yes even Dr. Tim) listens.
Jack

[WillJames]

As Jack says, 3D, give Peter a chance to do what he can. He has been around for a LONG time, and has put a lot into the hobby and is one of the most well known for his incredible scale ships. The Scale style is not what I am used to either, nobody is doing it around here, but lets check it out and learn together. I see a scaler in my future, still workign on the wife right now. ;)

[Hotshot Charlie]

Everyone should "broaden" their horizons. There is alot more to flying heli's than, 3D, Scale or FAI; whatever your heli habit is.

Guess what I am saying, take the time to learn about each others discipline. In other words, Scale guys give the FAI, 3D guys the benefit of learning more about what they do and why; 3D, FAI guys give the Scale guys a chance to explain their passion and the FAI guys give the Scalers and 3D'ers a look, enjoy it all !

You never know, you may find another way to spend more money $$$$ ! :mrgreen: :arggg: :dontknow :smokin:

[Peter Wales]

With everyone complaining about a lack of building time, I would think the last thing anyone needs to do is to change disciplines just to see what its like. Setting up an FAI heli is vastly different from a 3D heli and so is a scale machine.

I have watched the FAI guys at the Nats and while I am in awe of their capabilities and skills, I know its not for me. As for 3D, well the less said seen and heard about that the better :twisted:

Just joking. Again the top guys make it look so effortless, but all the time they are trying to make it look more dangerous by flying closer to the ground and to themselves. But you gotta admire their skills on the sticks.

[Hotshot Charlie]

Guess what I am saying, take the time to learn about each others discipline.

Hey Peter, I said "learn more" not try it. heheheee :mrgreen: Heck, I barely got the money to do what I'm doing... much less try it all. :(

I tried Scale, I love it... but my pocketbook can't handle it right now. (and my scale bird doesn't even come close to what you and Dr. Tim do) As time goes, I am sure I will have another scale bird. I am just flying and having fun with what I got, A little 1.5D, a little Class I FAI stuff..... it's all good ! :wink:

[Heli_jack]

And you know Rob, it all started because we wanted to have fun.. Unfortunately some of us forget the fun part. I did, now it is fun or I don't mess with it.

Yes, these guys on the sticks amaze me i.e., the 3D and FAI. I am in awe of their ability to keep up, keep oriented, and afford so many blades. I have seen world champs fly.

My jollies are scale, I am just not capable of safely doing all that other stuff.
Jack