Review - Outrage XP packs 2500 6S & 2200 3S

[Finless]

OK guys I have been kinda silent on this for a bit but some of you may have seen posts about me trying these packs.

This review is hearing from people that have been using them for a while now. I don't need to be in the review and I let users local to me say how well they are working for them. This review video is a 2 month spread in time... You can see the first segment when I started the review and later 2 month what users think.

Since this is a review and NOT a full blown data based analysis you take this based on users local to me and what they think.

Here is my .00002 cents. I love them!

I would LOVE to have the time to do full blown 100's of flight testing and data graphs for a review! Really I would. But after trying it with the TP/FP/Kong testing I realized that
1) I don't have the time OR the diligence to keep track of my flying!
2) I don't have the patience to do this kind of review!

Reviews of batteries are NOT my thing. So.... I will do them using REAL people and REAL experience. You be the judge in the end.

Anyway, here is the video:
Video Link ->Outrage XP Pack Review (63 Megs) (http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=finless/other&filename=outrage.wmv)



Enjoy,
Bob

[rotorhead58d]

they have a TP balance connector. i like that. any cog problems with the 2200 mAh packs on the 450?

[REGULATER]

Hey Bob are those the pack's you let me fly in Bakersfeild fun fly in my Trex 500 if so all I can say is those were the Hottest pack's I have ever flown. I see that they are out of stock of them and I can see why? I will get some when they are back in stock.

REGULATER

[Wyldman]

HeliDirect just got a shipment in early this morning. I got the email notification and managed to score 2 of the 5000mah 6S1P packs for the 600e before they vanished again.

[Finless]

Hey Bob are those the pack's you let me fly in Bakersfeild fun fly in my Trex 500 if so all I can say is those were the Hottest pack's I have ever flown. I see that they are out of stock of them and I can see why? I will get some when they are back in stock.

REGULATER

Yes, those were thre outrage packs I let you use.

Bob

[HFG]

Am I crazy or is Kevin's mikado really loud ?? The T500 canopy have anything to do with that ?

[TheBum]

How much better do the 30S packs perform than the 25S packs if you're not using a high power motor like a Scorpion? I would assume there would be at least a slight increase in power with the 30S because they wouldn't get as hot, but is it $10 worth?

[HFG]

Sorry but i have to pipe up on this issue. This C game seems to becoming a numbers game like the clocking frequency of a CPU. Lets take an example here

2100mah 20C pack = 42A

2100mah 25C = 52.5A

2100mah 30C = 63A

Most 450 Motors have an maximum current of 50A and most commonly used ESC are 35-40A. Frankly i would prefer to see improvements in other areas of lipo such as:
Cycle Life
Longevity
Price
Weight

P.S. My fav pack to date was 18C, bestest even my 30C packs.

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

Bob get your Logo canopy off the ground before someone steps on it.:)

[trickybit]

Sorry but i have to pipe up on this issue. This C game seems to becoming a numbers game like the clocking frequency of a CPU. Lets take an example here

2100mah 20C pack = 42A

2100mah 25C = 52.5A

2100mah 30C = 63A

Most 450 Motors have an maximum current of 50A and most commonly used ESC are 35-40A. Frankly i would prefer to see improvements in other areas of lipo such as:
Cycle Life
Longevity
Price
Weight

P.S. My fav pack to date was 18C, bestest even my 30C packs.

So, let me ask this in this thread/forum:

If I have a 35A ESC, is there any advantage of the 30C over the 25C packs?

The 25C's are cheaper, lighter, and available (at least they were). I'm not asking "good enough," which I'm sure they are, I'm just curious if there is any aspect of benefit for the 30's.

Thanks,
Jim

[HFG]

Possibly. But in my experience i just can't tell the difference between my old 18C and my 30C packs. Others might disagree with me but i just think the C rating gets over used alot.

[4cyclic]

I have 4 packs of the 3s 2200 25c and let me tell you they are the most powerful packs I have tried.
I have the xl motor on 13t and the Scorpion 6 on 9t and the packs stay very cool at the end of flight. Max temp I got so far is 98 deg f. My older Hyperion 16c packs were 135deg f easy with the Scorpion.
No need for the heavier 30c cells.
I run 1450-1500 mah in 4:30 minutes on the Scorpion and 5:30 minutes on the xl.

Packs balance really well on my TP charger 1010c-210V.

Power difference between the 16c Hyp. and these Outrage, are just that, an outrage !!! Love them.

[fireup]

Am I crazy or is Kevin's mikado really loud ?? The T500 canopy have anything to do with that ?

I had some machanical issue with that flight, that's why I ended the flight early.

[RcSuperSales]

Sorry but i have to pipe up on this issue. This C game seems to becoming a numbers game like the clocking frequency of a CPU. Lets take an example here

2100mah 20C pack = 42A
2100mah 25C = 52.5A
2100mah 30C = 63A

Most 450 Motors have an maximum current of 50A and most commonly used ESC are 35-40A. Frankly i would prefer to see improvements in other areas of lipo such as:
Cycle Life
Longevity
Price
Weight

P.S. My fav pack to date was 18C, bestest even my 30C packs.

I agree with you too. From all the Battery Industyr gurus I have spoken too they have all said the same thing. Obvioulsy it makes a bit of a difference but it is more about the output of amps and how the battery performs under load. That is what matters. That aside these Outrage packs do kick a$$! :D I am using two of them on my HDX 450SE and my King 2 and they perform very well. I also use Airthunder's and honestly I do not notice a big difference between the two though the Airthunder's are a tad heavier. I am also not some insane 3d flyer.

I think we will continue to see advancements in the battery technology. Remember the Outrage Batts are some of the newest on the market so the cells may be of a better material and what not. It would be great if there was somebody in the Li-PO industry that could tear apart all the big name batteries and tell us the differences between them and that sort of thing. That would be interesting to say the least.

It would also be great if all Li-PO's lasted 200-300 cycles. That being said would the manufacturers really want to make them last that long? I think it will get to that point eventually. Like anything in technology things seem to just keep advancing.

BTW I offer Quantity discounts on most batteries! ;)

[trextuning]

Looking at this I think there is a lack of understanding around why you would buy a 30C pack over a 20C pack.

The facts are these:

In general a higher 'C' rated pack will hold higher voltage across the entire amp range it is used when compared to a lower 'C' rated pack. So even if you only run the pack at 5C you will still get higher voltage than a lower 'C' rated pack. That means higher headspeed and better RPM retention under load.

With heli's we tend to amp peak the packs a lot, this peaking can cause an internal build up of heat in isolated pockets within the pack. The overall temperature of the pack may be fine but those pockets will not be and will cause the pack to deteriorate. Lower 'C' rated packs suffer with this much more than high 'C' packs as they don't handle short peaks as capably.

This was why trextuning lipo lab tests included a test where the pack was continually peaked, it shows up this temperature problem and it's effect on the pack which a continuous discharge would not show.

Higher 'C' packs are generally a bit heavier, this is why for some applications an 18C pack might be better than a 30C, you have to balance weight against power. If the model doesn't need the power OR your flying doesn't demand it then buying into high 'C' rating may not be an advantage.

For 3D fliers a higher rated pack will generally last a lot longer due to the above factors AND hold higher voltage throughtout, which means more power, less bogging AND better value for money.

sorry for the lecture. :D

[trextuning]

I would LOVE to have the time to do full blown 100's of flight testing and data graphs for a review! Really I would. But after trying it with the TP/FP/Kong testing I realized that
1) I don't have the time OR the diligence to keep track of my flying!
2) I don't have the patience to do this kind of review!

I hear ya and couldn't agree more, lipo testing is not something I would advise anybody get into, it's a hard long slog at the end of which you release the review only to find the manufacturer has just released their new pack and the one you just finished is now obsolete :D

I now limit myself to doing power tests and back to back comparisons, cycle life testing just takes waaaay too long.

[trickybit]

trextuning: thanks for that. I did just order the 25C rather than wait for the 30C, but I'm not regretting it at all... they will be way, way good enough for me, and $, g's, availability trump incremental advantage, I'm sure.

it's all just an excuse to use my powerpoles crimper, anyway...

fly on, dudes.

[MrMel]

Cycle Life
Longevity
Price
Weight

Higher C, if truly higher C and not fake marketing gives you this except price part.

True higher C will give you:

- Higher voltage under same load, meaning better RPM control as discussed here already.
- Longer flighttimes, that right, your motor need watts, since the pack hold higher voltage, it will require lower amps, and your 30C 2200 pack will last longer then your 18C, unless your motor is restricted by the 18C low output.
- More cycle life, if you push a 30C pack at 15C it will last alot longer then a 18C pack pushed at 15C, again if its the "same" type and not marketing hype..

I have full "lab-grade" testing equipment, Ive tested numerous cells.
I have to this date only found ONE battery manufacturer that really lived up to its C Rating, where I could run repeated runs at it max C rating and where it did NOT hit critical temps.

[monster8]

I have to this date only found ONE battery manufacturer that really lived up to its C Rating, where I could run repeated runs at it max C rating and where it did NOT hit critical temps.

And this manufacturer is? Have you also tested these Outrage packs?
All good information in this thread!

[MrMel]

The manufacturer is Desire Power/Desire-Battery, they sell under that name in Sweden, but is re-branded in the US...

I havent tested Outrage XP, but judging from their sizes, C rates available, weight, I dont think I have to... ;)

[RcSuperSales]

Looking at this I think there is a lack of understanding around why you would buy a 30C pack over a 20C pack.

The facts are these:

In general a higher 'C' rated pack will hold higher voltage across the entire amp range it is used when compared to a lower 'C' rated pack. So even if you only run the pack at 5C you will still get higher voltage than a lower 'C' rated pack. That means higher headspeed and better RPM retention under load.

With heli's we tend to amp peak the packs a lot, this peaking can cause an internal build up of heat in isolated pockets within the pack. The overall temperature of the pack may be fine but those pockets will not be and will cause the pack to deteriorate. Lower 'C' rated packs suffer with this much more than high 'C' packs as they don't handle short peaks as capably.

This was why trextuning lipo lab tests included a test where the pack was continually peaked, it shows up this temperature problem and it's effect on the pack which a continuous discharge would not show.

Higher 'C' packs are generally a bit heavier, this is why for some applications an 18C pack might be better than a 30C, you have to balance weight against power. If the model doesn't need the power OR your flying doesn't demand it then buying into high 'C' rating may not be an advantage.

For 3D fliers a higher rated pack will generally last a lot longer due to the above factors AND hold higher voltage throughtout, which means more power, less bogging AND better value for money.

sorry for the lecture. :D

Great info! Great stuff to know. I have saved that info. Battery stuff gets confusing to us average folks :D Thanks again!

Kyle

[4cyclic]

Mr Mel, what is the rebranded name in the US for Desire

[Raven_darkcloud]

I might be a bit partial But I like my outrage packs.

[TomC]

Mr Mel, what is the rebranded name in the US for Desire


I think what Mr Mel is hinting is that there is a good possiblity that the Outrage packs are re-branded DesirePower ones. I've had a look at both packs dimensions, specs, and weights and they look the same to me.

I'm just trying 3x 5s Outrage 3700 packs (in series) on my 15s flybarless Ion-x and I am impressed with the extra power these packs put out compared to my FP Evo25 3700 packs. Time will tell if their cycle life and customer support are as good.

Cheers,
TomC

[MrMel]

Yup, Tom is right.

Take my view as you want since I decided to fly for DesirePower (really no other option once you tried it)

But here is a volt comparsion on my Beam 30C Desirepower 3s1p 2200 vs 25C Flightpower 2500.
Note that FP pack is actually larger (should held better, FP pack has LESS cycles then my Desirepower (13 vs 16), but Desirepower is 30C vs flightpower 25C though)

motors need watts, with so much higher voltage under load, since ampdraw will be lower to produce same watts, I actually get longer flighttimes with the DP packs then same size of other pack:)

On our 10s1p Packs we checked IR using the new CellPro 10s charger, FP had more then double the IR compared to the DP packs...