My Raptor is confused...

[eagleridge]

Hi guys. My first post here although I've been lurking around awhile. just wanna say you guys are an awesome bunch!

Anyway, here is my situation. I picked up a smokin deal on a used Raptor. I initially thought it was a 50 but turns out it has a OS37. No problem, still a great deal. The heli had 600mm or 620mm main blades and a 50 tailboom, hence my assumption(yeah, I know what that means :)) it was a 50.

I have changed the main blades down to 550's.. But am curious what issues there would be to leave the tailboom a 50 size.

So what do you guys think. Should I change the tailboom or does it not make much of a difference?

Thanks!
Kevin

[vandelescrow]

I wouldn't worry about the tail boom. The Raptor Titan is basicly a 50 with a longer boom, so you got a 30 with a longer boom. I think the original idea behind the titan was to get better tail authority and the ability to have longer blades was just a benefit that resulted.

If you do change the boom to the 30, you will also have to replace the belt. Personaly with all that has been said here about starter helis, I'd put a 50 size engine on it. Do you have the 50 motor mount? There is nothing wrong with leaving it as is while learning to hover, it might actualy be more tame and easier to control in its current configuration. But definatly square it away when you get into forward flight.

[eagleridge]

Hey thanks for the response! Actually I have hovered it a few times. My concerns are that it seems twitchier than my Rex450's.. And that I was not expecting.

First I hovered it before changing the mains to 550's and the head speed just seemed too slow. Got to really looking at the motor and found out it was a OS37. After changing to 550 mains the head speed seemed much better. But still seems twitchy to me. I don't know, maybe its just my nerves since this is my first bigger bird.

kevin





I wouldn't worry about the tail boom. The Raptor Titan is basicly a 50 with a longer boom, so you got a 30 with a longer boom. I think the original idea behind the titan was to get better tail authority and the ability to have longer blades was just a benefit that resulted.

If you do change the boom to the 30, you will also have to replace the belt. Personaly with all that has been said here about starter helis, I'd put a 50 size engine on it. Do you have the 50 motor mount? There is nothing wrong with leaving it as is while learning to hover, it might actualy be more tame and easier to control in its current configuration. But definatly square it away when you get into forward flight.

[vandelescrow]

you have something going on here that doesn't sound right. If I were you I'd go over it real close, use http://www.raptortechnique.com/index.html as a guide for what to look for.

The t-rex should be alot more "twitchy" than a 50. I was flying R50's for about 2 years when I got a t-rex and to get the t-rex to fly like a 50, I had to put alot of expo in.

[eagleridge]

Yeah, the funny thing is I don't fly with any expo on the rex's but feel like I need it with the raptor:YeaBaby:

[sfhawk]

I bought a raptor titan as a good stable trainer but found it too intimidating as a first heli and soon after i bought a t rex 450 se v2. Now common opinion would be that it would be harder to fly but i bought it for the ease of practice at work.. However since i have learnt on this little beauty i find it more comfortable to fly than my raptor! Its so responsive that when i lose it i can recover VERY quickly whereas with the raptor i would have a major moment due to its inherent inertia... Practice practice practice..... damn these things take some learning.(windsurfings easier......!)

[GunnyGlow]

I recently acquired a Raptor Titan. It was using ALOT of battery just hovering while I was tuning the engine. About 600Mah in about 10 or 15 minutes. It was also a little "twitchy". To make a long story short....I found that most of the ball links were rather tight. I bought a reamer at the LHS in Denver and went over nearly every link on the heli. MAJOR difference!!! That reamer was around $20......now that I've used it I would pay twice that for it!! :) I'm not sure if this is your problem also.....but as I read your "story", I couldn't help but relate. (I have an SEv2 also)

Good luck with your heli!! :thumbup:

[eagleridge]

I got some video of this at the field yesterday. I'll try to get it posted tonight to see what you guys think.

[eagleridge]

and here's the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIE69WL6GCk

[heliwill]

Do you have the red dampners and light paddles? It looks the the heli is "nodding." If so you should put some greese on the dampners. (if you haven't done this)

[eagleridge]

Do you have the red dampners and light paddles? It looks the the heli is "nodding." If so you should put some greese on the dampners. (if you haven't done this)

I think it has the blue dampners. Do they still need to be lubricated? I'm not sure what paddles it has. They are black and say "EVOR" on them.

Thanks

[alienteabagger]

What could be happening to you is the same thing that is happening to me. I also have a T-Rex450 and got a Raptor 50 v2. In the beginning the larger heli seemed much much twitchier than the smaller one when in reality its just the opposite. Since the 450 requires much quicker control inputs, you are probably over correcting with the Raptor causing it to seem like it's as twitchy as your 450. It's been a few weeks since I got my 50 and even though it still intimidates me, I have gotten used to its size and now can feel it out better. It is indeed much tamer than the 450.

[eagleridge]

What could be happening to you is the same thing that is happening to me. I also have a T-Rex450 and got a Raptor 50 v2. In the beginning the larger heli seemed much much twitchier than the smaller one when in reality its just the opposite. Since the 450 requires much quicker control inputs, you are probably over correcting with the Raptor causing it to seem like it's as twitchy as your 450. It's been a few weeks since I got my 50 and even though it still intimidates me, I have gotten used to its size and now can feel it out better. It is indeed much tamer than the 450.

You very well may be on to something here. I know my nerves are on edge with this machine and I haven't put her in the air enough to be used to it.(a little less than a gallon) I'm gonna lube the dampners and and just go go for it as safely as possible. Hopefully after another couple of gallons I will get more comfortable. But I tell ya, a bigger heli is way different than I was expecting.:o

If you or anyone else have anymore suggestions, I'm all ears!

Kevin

[vandelescrow]

Its hard to tell in a video if what we hear is what it realy sounds like. Were you flying in normal mode? It sounded like the engine was really screaming. For normal mode (hover) you should be turning around 1800-1850 head speed.

Write down your settings in the radio before making any changes so you can go back if you don't like it, but try bringing down your throttle curve a few notches and/or raising your pitch curve.

What was posted just befor this may be part of it. The guy I'm currently teaching over corrects when he gets nervouse so it is a bit hard to handle. In a hover, slow subtle movements on the sticks, I.E. if the heli drifts left, give slight right input, imediatly when the heli starts to respond, return stick to center. Dont wait till the heli is back where you want it to return the stick to center or you will have to correct to the left now.

I notice the heli was changing altitude alot. If you have a 7 point pitch curve like on a JR 9303, make a slight flat spot at the hover point for both throttle and pitch. I.E. If hovering at mid stick and the mid point (point 4) is 50 (making up a number for example) make point 3 46 and point 5 54. This way while your learning if you sneeze, have an itch, adjust the rudder, what ever the heli will pretty much stay at the same altitude. As you get more confident with the heli make the pitch and throttle curve more linear (straight line). I did this when learning and got to the point where I could even walk around while maintaining a steady hover.

Hope this helps

[eagleridge]

Its hard to tell in a video if what we hear is what it realy sounds like. Were you flying in normal mode? It sounded like the engine was really screaming. For normal mode (hover) you should be turning around 1800-1850 head speed.

Write down your settings in the radio before making any changes so you can go back if you don't like it, but try bringing down your throttle curve a few notches and/or raising your pitch curve.

What was posted just befor this may be part of it. The guy I'm currently teaching over corrects when he gets nervouse so it is a bit hard to handle. In a hover, slow subtle movements on the sticks, I.E. if the heli drifts left, give slight right input, imediatly when the heli starts to respond, return stick to center. Dont wait till the heli is back where you want it to return the stick to center or you will have to correct to the left now.

I notice the heli was changing altitude alot. If you have a 7 point pitch curve like on a JR 9303, make a slight flat spot at the hover point for both throttle and pitch. I.E. If hovering at mid stick and the mid point (point 4) is 50 (making up a number for example) make point 3 46 and point 5 54. This way while your learning if you sneeze, have an itch, adjust the rudder, what ever the heli will pretty much stay at the same altitude. As you get more confident with the heli make the pitch and throttle curve more linear (straight line). I did this when learning and got to the point where I could even walk around while maintaining a steady hover.

Hope this helps


Hi and thanks for the response. Yeah this was hovered in normal flight mode. The TC is linear 0 25 50 75 100.. and PC is the same.. In my defense, I wasn't really trying to spot hover. I was just kinda letting it do its thing, and trying to get a feel for it.heheh I'm certainly no expert pilot, but I can hover the 450 quite stablely(sp?) figure 8's, nose in, stall turns etc..no 3d though. So... I'm not convinced its all me that is the issue, but I'm not gonna rule that out at this point.:o

[eagleridge]

Oh my gosh!! I was getting ready to pull the blades and lube the dampners when I noticed that one of the flybar paddles was backwards. yup, thats right, trailing edge was leading.. Oh please let that be the problem.. So...ya think thats the problem??:YeaBaby: I can't believe that four heli guys missed this at the field..heheh

[ShinOBIWAN]

Oh my gosh!! I was getting ready to pull the blades and lube the dampners when I noticed that one of the flybar paddles was backwards. yup, thats right, trailing edge was leading.. Oh please let that be the problem.. So...ya think thats the problem??:YeaBaby: I can't believe that four heli guys missed this at the field..heheh

I've just been watching your video after I read your post and yep sure enough one of them is on backwards.

That definitely won't help the stability in flight. The flybars are an essential part of the whole operating parameter that is the head.

I bet once you take it out again you'll notice an improvement after this realisation.

This is another reason why I always tear down a second hand heli, inspect, replace worn parts and then rebuild.

Let us know how you get on.

[eagleridge]

I've just been watching your video after I read your post and yep sure enough one of them is on backwards.

That definitely won't help the stability in flight. The flybars are an essential part of the whole operating parameter that is the head.

I bet once you take it out again you'll notice an improvement after this realisation.

This is another reason why I always tear down a second hand heli, inspect, replace worn parts and then rebuild.

Let us know how you get on.


Wow.. you say you see that in the video...Your eyes are WAY better than mine.haha
Can you see it while the heli is on the table or can you tell while in flight?

I just so happen to be off of work tomorrow or uh.. today Gonna take it back to the field
this afternoon to see how it goes and will report back..

Thanks

[ShinOBIWAN]

[quote=eagleridge;757547]Wow.. you say you see that in the video...Your eyes are WAY better than mine.haha
Can you see it while the heli is on the table or can you tell while in flight?

Ha, no I'm just sad.

I only caught it after you mentioned but yes, it was at the beginning whilst on the table. You picked it up to take it to the field and the flybar moved revealing the problem, you had to look close but once you knew what to look for it was clear.

You and Jim (another Raptor owner on here) would get along great. He flies his Raptor with the tail blades on backwards. :D

[Skarn]

[quote=ShinOBIWAN;757792
You and Jim (another Raptor owner on here) would get along great. He flies his Raptor with the tail blades on backwards. :D[/quote]

LOL! Now that was funny!

Skarn

[Denny22]

I have been flying my Raptor 30 for 2 years now with no issues. Up until now it has flown very easy, very stable. I am new to 3D flying, and have only done it twice. The last time I flew it in 3D towards the end of my flight I switched back to normal mode. Once I did this now my Raptor sounds and acts like eagleridges does. The motor RPM's sound very high, and the heli is very twitchy up, down, left, right everything, and then it would drift pretty hard to the right when I let go of the cyclic stick. I have viusally looked over my Raptor the best I know how and I cannot find anything. I have tried to put it back in the air 3 different times, and it acts the same way everytime.

I will keep checking and trying to trouble shoot and keep you guys posted.

Thanks
Denny

[eagleridge]

Ok.. I was able to take the heli to the field yesterday to hover it after correcting the paddle being backwards. I must say it felt a lot better. NOT near as touchy.. The wind was gusting pretty hard, so that was giving me fits, but was definately better...

Now I'm concerned about my engine rpm maybe being too high. At the moment I have a straight throttle curve in normal mode,(0 25 50 75 100) Would it be uncommon to lower the TC in normal mode to lower the rpm?



Denny: Check to make sure your flybar paddles are going the correct direction:YeaBaby:

[Lota Fun R]

I have a raptor 90 and felt is was twitchy/very responsive, it was/is. I let Eric Stolz fly it and he put %30 expo in and it made it fly better. If a pro likes expo with the Raptor then it ain't a bad thing. I also have JR8717s which are very fast servos.

I thought I would get used to it with no expo, it just flys smoother with expo. :smokin:

[Lota Fun R]

You might look into getting a 50 engine, I have a TT53 for my 600Pro N. I have no idea how well it works since the heli still needs servos and more.

If it's a 50 then it will accept a .50 engine.

People think the Rappy is an old outdated heli, it is but it still works very well. Any doubt? do a google search and watch Szabo, Magbuana, and many others, the Rappy rocks in the right hands.

My Raptor has all the best and all the upgrades tuned to the max, having it all set up right makes a difference, Bert Magbuana and I had that conversation and he completely agrees. Get it set up right.

If your Rappy doesn't ROCK it's not the heli's fault. :YeaBaby: ;) :thumbup:

[Denny22]

Oh yea eagle, I'm going to, because with all that 3D flying I guess a paddle could have flipped, I don't know????

I agree Lot a Fun, up until now my Raptor fly's awesome, very easy to fly. It has been a perfect trainer for me, and I don't have any upgrades what so ever. I love my raptor! I have a big expensive helicopter that I use to shoot AV/AP work, and often I say to myself, damn I wish I could strap a camera on my Raptor, cause it fly's so much better. And I am in the process of doing just that. Going to get a 50 size engine, convert my 30 to a 50 and swing some bigger blades.

Denny