Brutal death of a Raptor 90 3D

[Badger50]

Hey guys: Hope everyone is doing well. Let me preface this, I am 48 years old, and have been flying helis for almost 2 years. Am able to do some fairly good 3D, tic-tocs, rollong rainbows, piro flips, and inverted flight both ways. However, it still seems as though the dreaded "Dumb Thumb" is always lurking in the shadows. Was flying my beautiful 90 3D today. Had just finished with a couple of circuts, was cruising forward inverted and intended to do a hard collective pump into a piro flip...then it happened. Was about 10-15 feet off the deck, hit the collective pump the wrong way, and totaled it. The crash blew the Li-ion battery, exploded the cluth bell, broke the boom, landing gear, bent the frame and Kasama head, and fried the engine because with no power she was running full open with now air flow, don't know yet about the electronics but you get the picture. If you were me would you:

A. Build another raptor.
B. Get a synergy, or wait for an aurora, or a 700n

Just would like some imput. I know many of you out there have felt the pain, oh well thats life. I thought you might enjoy some before and after pictures. Gonna go fly my 50's now and see what new and exciting adventues await me. :thumbup:

[heli]

Sorry about your loss.

I too lost a 90. It was a Raptor 90 STD. A tail slid into some trees. I topped one of the trees.

Anyhow I just sold my Raptor 90 SE.

I went with the Aurora.

I too was deciding on the same 3 machines you are.

The Aurora is just one sweet machine.

Here's a couple pics. You can see the tail boom around my buddy Steve's neck.

[Badger50]

I see you know how to wreck one too. How in the heck did you get an Aurora? Is it as sweet as all the hype? What engine are running in that badboy?

[heli]

I see you know how to wreck one too. How in the heck did you get an Aurora? Is it as sweet as all the hype? What engine are running in that badboy?

The Aurora is on order. I am #7 on the list.

I ordered it here: http://www.rcheliworkz.com/pilot.asp

If you order one tell him HeliRaptor sent you.

I have a NEW OS 91 SZ for it. I have a thread started here for the machine: http://www.heliavant.com./viewtopic.php?t=24

I will also be documenting the build when I receive it. I am headed to New Mexico in a couple weeks so the Heli will be held until I return if it is in. Then I will work on a build.

[FlyingHigh 450]

:shock: WOW,sorry to see your heli's all beat up :bawl.

[AFjetmech]

Now here is where a small spring attached to the throttle arm would have killed the engine when the linkage broke. I'm surprised I don't see something like that on any heli's.

[vandelescrow]

Sorry to hear about your heli. As far as I know the aurora has been released, if you can find anyone who has it in stock still. With how new it is, and Avant still trying to make kits, how will parts availability be? All things being equal as far as availability It would be a tough call which one to build next.

How long has Avant been around? With how long it took them to make the Aurora available to the general public, makes me wonder if they will experience problems in the future (company wise, not heli).

700n? I have not seen anything on this heli yet, I don't think even RC heli magazine has seen it, only heard about it (no reviews).

Raptor would be the cheapest and easiest since you already know them and you can order one today.

What are the pros and cons with the 3? As far as I know the main difference is the Raptor is heavier and mCCPM. But I see mCCPM as both a pro and a con, pro: more true and (more than lickly) less damaged parts in a crash, con: less holding power and more weight of parts needed (I was going to say slower but I don't think it would make a difference, transit speed of 1 servo will be the same as 3 on an eCCPM).

If you choose one of the others, come back and let us know the flight differences. Reading a review is one thing, but someone able to compare it to our trusted Raptor would be a real benefit.

[vandelescrow]

Now here is where a small spring attached to the throttle arm would have killed the engine when the linkage broke. I'm surprised I don't see something like that on any heli's.

This could put a constant pressure on the servo, causing the battery to drain faster and potentialy cause the servo to burn up.

But you might be on to something, Maybe a seperate servo too close the fuel line, rigged to a temp sensor for fail safe, and receiver incase it does a chicken dance and doesn't over heat. AAhh to complicated,

edit:
I was thinking about this and it would take the manufacutres of the engines probably, but, In the carb, the barrel not only rotates but it slides back and forth, If a spring was put on one end of the barel to push it closed if a linkage fell off, the spring could be vary weak and still accomplish this.

[Badger50]

Thanks for the imput guys. I think the spring on the throttle is a great idea, wonder why I've never heard of it before. It would be so simple to do and would have saved me 500 bucks. Vandelescrow, as usual you make some great points. I have many spare parts for the raptors, they are easy to build, and get parts for, not to mention my 90 flew as good as anything I see at the field, especially with the Kasama head. I don't really think I like the idea of trying a new model until all the bugs are worked out, Yeah the Auroras and 700's look great in the vids, and I have no doubt that they are both top quality machines, as are the Synerys and MA's, but lets be real, those are mostly sponsored pilots and experts flying those things. Heck we've all seen AZJ tear it up with his Rap 90. I am just bumed out right now. Summer is here and my 90 is dead. Oh well, I'm sure an option will present itself in the not to distant future. Thanks again to all. Keep-em-flying. :cheers

[AFjetmech]

This could put a constant pressure on the servo, causing the battery to drain faster and potentialy cause the servo to burn up.

But you might be on to something, Maybe a seperate servo too close the fuel line, rigged to a temp sensor for fail safe, and receiver incase it does a chicken dance and doesn't over heat. AAhh to complicated,

edit:
I was thinking about this and it would take the manufacutres of the engines probably, but, In the carb, the barrel not only rotates but it slides back and forth, If a spring was put on one end of the barel to push it closed if a linkage fell off, the spring could be vary weak and still accomplish this.

A spring would only have to excert a few ounces of pressure to close a throttle barrel. Even most small servos used on throttles put out 30-40 oz. That is nothing for them to handle and wouldn't wear out one out any faster I think. (Consider how much torque load is put on your cyclic servos) I'm talking a small spring like somthing out of a ball point pen. Even a mini servo wouldn't have any problem stretching one of them.

[JimLerch]

Condolences on the heli.

From my point of view, I'm a stubborn bastard and would fix the heli.

Does the motor still turn over? From the last picture it doesn't look like the piston is scored up in the exhaust port.

Alternatively, put it all in a box and sell it to me ;) (Said mostly in jest, because doing so will make you look it over real good to figure out what its worth, and the next thing you know you'll be thinking "heck there aint that much broken" :YeaBaby: )

So, good luck with the rebuild. Afterwards, then get one of them Fancy pants Helicopters.. :dontknow

[JimLerch]

Oh yea, why don't they make a throttle servo with integrated fail safe? IE if power lost it snaps 'closed' one way or another?

Throwing a battery during a crash and doing the funky chicken dance is high on my list of things I want to avoid. Currently I've done everything humanly possible to keep the battery from ejecting. I've looked at adding a throttle close spring, but it would have to be hefty enough to push a dead servo, all the while not inadvertently getting in the way during normal flight...

I still haven't found that spring yet..

[Badger50]

Jim you crack me up.:lol: The more I think about it, I don't think 'Im cut out for one of them thar fancy pant heliocopters. As far as the engine goes, the piston ring is completely gone, so yeah she turs over..ha..ha. When it happended the clutch grinded the lining of the bell, which then flowed into the carb while she was running full bore on the ground. The result? Black, burnt nito, and metal shavings throughout the entire engine and into the muffler. :BSS if your gonna do something, don't do it half assed. I'm an old stubborn bastard too, and yeah I will rebuild it, I just have to get another new kit so I have parts to rebuild. I'm just so PO'd, the new Kasama head was working great, and had that 90 running on rails. Oh well, whataya gonna do....Get another 90 3D, they may be old school, but then again, so am I. Hell I'm just old. See ya.

[JimLerch]

So, are you going to rebuild that motor? (I know your not going to throw it away, right???)

Got any more pics?

Also, I'm sure you will look into it, but before buying a kit, price out the parts you'll need first. The crash before last I thought I'd just get a kit, but the kit was $600, and I only needed $150 worth of bits and pieces from it. Those parts, a Frankenstein YS-80 I built from a pile of good bits, and a set of main blades put it back in the air again..

Of course, we have the running joke at our field "I'll give ya 100 bucks for everything, but ya gotta include the table.." (seems funnier at the field... :YeaBaby: )

Oh yea, my Kasama head should be here Monday :-)

[forjer]

Now here is where a small spring attached to the throttle arm would have killed the engine when the linkage broke. I'm surprised I don't see something like that on any heli's.
They do. At least some or all of the Bergen gassers.

[Badger50]

Just a quick update on repair costs for my dead 90.
1) Raptor 90specific parts: 627.00
2) Kasama blade grips and spindle: 110.00
3) YS 91sr engine replacement: 309.00, six months ago.
4) Hatori 19 muffler: 189.00, six months ago.
5) One, maybe 2 futaba 9250 servos: 100.00

For a grand total of 1335.00, which is probably on the conservative side to put it back the way it was. I think I will just bite the bullit and order another kit. Don't know how long I'll have to wait on another YS 91 and pipe, doesn't look like anyone has them. Might go with the O.S. Pumped or non pumped, what do you guys think.

HEY JIM: I am not into rebuilding engines so here is a deal for you... If you want it, and you cover the shipping costs, I'll send it to you. It is so mucked up that I don't even want to mess with it, hell, you can even have the table that goes with it...:YeaBaby:

[ShinOBIWAN]

Just a quick update on repair costs for my dead 90.
1) Raptor 90specific parts: 627.00
2) Kasama blade grips and spindle: 110.00
3) YS 91sr engine replacement: 309.00, six months ago.
4) Hatori 19 muffler: 189.00, six months ago.
5) One, maybe 2 futaba 9250 servos: 100.00

For a grand total of 1335.00, which is probably on the conservative side to put it back the way it was. I think I will just bite the bullit and order another kit. Don't know how long I'll have to wait on another YS 91 and pipe, doesn't look like anyone has them. Might go with the O.S. Pumped or non pumped, what do you guys think.

HEY JIM: I am not into rebuilding engines so here is a deal for you... If you want it, and you cover the shipping costs, I'll send it to you. It is so mucked up that I don't even want to mess with it, hell, you can even have the table that goes with it...:YeaBaby:

Hey Mike, I don't have any experience of the YS but my OS 91 non pumped works real nice in my 90SE. TBH I don't think there's a whole lot of difference between the two, however I'm an OS fan myself simply because they've been trouble free.

I have to say you certainly know how to crash. That has got to be the worst 90 wreck I've seen yet.

Here's a little something to cheer you up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NAQV_y6iFA

PS. I'd go with another 90. The Raptor with the Srimok head is a real nice well rounded combo that does everything well. I think anything else would be side step. Sure the Aurora, N9 and T700 are on the cutting edge but I see these fly in videos with top pilots and I think they're not night and day compared to the old Raptor 90.

[Badger50]

Thank you ShinOBIWAN: that definately made me laugh. At least I got through half a tank of fuel before I bought it. Was that you flying in the video?? If it was I see that I have some serious competition. :YeaBaby: I must agree with you, my 90 was a wonderful machine before it died, and I'm sure I will be flying another one within a month. The aurora and 700 can weight a year or 2. Who knows, by then they may actually be available, and the bugs worked out by then. Thanks again for the laugh.

[JimLerch]

PM on its way to you, I'm interested! :) Also take them 'dead' servo's off your hands if your not going to rebuild them!

[vandelescrow]

I have a Hatori pipe and header for the YS91 long stroke, just needs new "O" rings. $100. Only used a few flights and replaced with a custom pipe.

[darryl123]

Oh yea, why don't they make a throttle servo with integrated fail safe? IE if power lost it snaps 'closed' one way or another?

Throwing a battery during a crash and doing the funky chicken dance is high on my list of things I want to avoid. Currently I've done everything humanly possible to keep the battery from ejecting. I've looked at adding a throttle close spring, but it would have to be hefty enough to push a dead servo, all the while not inadvertently getting in the way during normal flight...

I still haven't found that spring yet..
i think that would be great i have been thinking on how it could be done. it would be east to add a small battery inline with the throttle servo and a diode to keep the battery from powering the rest of the system. dont hitec digis have a failsafe? what about a spring on the servo arm?

[ShinOBIWAN]

Thank you ShinOBIWAN: that definately made me laugh. At least I got through half a tank of fuel before I bought it. Was that you flying in the video?? If it was I see that I have some serious competition. :YeaBaby: I must agree with you, my 90 was a wonderful machine before it died, and I'm sure I will be flying another one within a month. The aurora and 700 can weight a year or 2. Who knows, by then they may actually be available, and the bugs worked out by then. Thanks again for the laugh.

My pleasure. BTW that wasn't me in the video.

The only machine that might sway me to part with my 90SE with Kasama is the upcoming Compass Odin 90. That machine looks to be really well sorted and if the Knight 3D is any indication it will be good.

I like the Aurora from an aesthetic stand point too. But as for the Synergy, its expensive to fix and I don't like Align because they're not built that well and generally need hop ups. The 700 is a new machine so maybe I'm not giving it a fair chance but if its anything like my 600E it'll be a disappointment.

[darryl123]

Jim you crack me up.:lol: The more I think about it, I don't think 'Im cut out for one of them thar fancy pant heliocopters. As far as the engine goes, the piston ring is completely gone, so yeah she turs over..ha..ha. When it happended the clutch grinded the lining of the bell, which then flowed into the carb while she was running full bore on the ground. The result? Black, burnt nito, and metal shavings throughout the entire engine and into the muffler. :BSS if your gonna do something, don't do it half assed. I'm an old stubborn bastard too, and yeah I will rebuild it, I just have to get another new kit so I have parts to rebuild. I'm just so PO'd, the new Kasama head was working great, and had that 90 running on rails. Oh well, whataya gonna do....Get another 90 3D, they may be old school, but then again, so am I. Hell I'm just old. See ya.
i think i should check my motor also. i got lucky as most of my fuel burned out in the air and when it did come down the clutch shoe expanded and killed the motor. rebuild the raptor parts are not that bad but you did a big job on yours. hope you get it fixed. this was my first crash on the 90 and parts are a lot more then the 50 but if its an avant or something they are a lot more expensive then an old raptor

[Badger50]

No Darryl, no repair job for this one..I BOUGHT A NEW ONE!!. Should be here by Wednesday, buit by Sunday, flying by next Wednesday, repairing next Wednesday night.:D Please no Lord, not that again, Good luck with your rebuild project.

[darryl123]

hows the rebuild going?
i am just finishing the crime scine investagation to make sure i dont have a rerun of this. so far i have gotten the tail gears and feathering shaft. i guess im luckyy enough to have plenty of backup stuff to play with.
when i lost this one i almost wanted to just quit flying. but i came back to sanity and just cant stop i have been flying since 1978 so its always there. im a glutton for punishment