Gearings available for the Ion-X

[PDC]

Hi Chris!

Need some new batteries for the next season, and would like to go 12S for my Actro 32-3 heli motor.

This spring you recommended something around a 12.5/1 gearing for 12S on my Actro motor, so I would just like to know what gearing's are available today, and if there will be any new gearing's available for the Ion-X next spring?

Thanks

Paul

[fitenfyr]

Next spring.....Hmmmm can you say belt drive. :D

I had Chris make up a 13T pinion for my Hacker setup.
I bet if you e-mailed them they could do the same for your Actro.
Might not get 12.5:1, but you could get closer for sure.

[WillJames]

I think you can convert to belt drive now. Have you gut the fingers out of your frames like I did?

I got the opportunity to fly Chris's Ion-X at IRCHA SE running 10.6:1 and it was very nice. I am still running 9.5:1 but looking forward to adding the belt drive at some point when it is available.

[PDC]

I can say belt drive, actually I like very much to say belt drive ;-).....Thanks for the info Jason and William.

Maybe I have missed something here, have not heard about belt drive for the Ion-X before you mentioned it here. Please tell me more, would like to have belt drive in my Ion-X too.

I did not cut out more than absolutely necessary, and haven't mounted the fan, so guess I didn't cut the fingers.

Here in Denmark the winter will start soon, so it will not be good warm flying weather until March/April next year, at which time I would like to have my new 12S battery and a new gearing.
Batteries etc. gets better each day at the moment, so guess I will wait until January/February with placing my order for the new battery, new esc. and new gearing.

Even that I don´t get a 12.5 gearing, 10.6 might be good enough with a 12S setup, as I like to run the esc. in governor mode where I guess I need to run no more than 80% throttle to give the governor a little excess power to work with.

Thanks!

Paul

[fitenfyr]

Paul,
It is something that Chris and the guys at MA are working on.
It is not on the market just yet, but I am sure you could call and get some ideas how you can do your own.
I am holding out for the 2nd generation Ion-X. If all goes well it should be belt driven everywhere. :D
I keep bugging Chris enough about it at least. :D

[lowandslow]

ION belt drive conversion? Chris, count me in.

[PDC]

Thanks again Jason!

Sound good that MA will use more belts in the Ion-X. Also maybe a belt driven power train will be stronger and be able to cope with the everyday increasing watts from the new generations of batteries.

I will give MA a call....wonder how different 2nd generation will be, if there will be a conversion kit, or if there will be a lot of version 1 Ion-X´s for sale on the market next year :-).

Thanks!

Paul

[WillJames]

I to would love to loose all the weight of the split gear system in favor of all light weight belts on my Ion, but I don't think that is gonna happen any time soon.

[fitenfyr]

Hmmm...
Well Will I wouldn't put any money on that one. :D

If you look at the 50 Prototype you will see there is not too far of a stretch to go with making the Ion-X into a belt driven monster. :D

From my conversations with Chris in the past month Soon as the 50 Prototype is done I think there will be some R&D done on a new version of the Ion-X.
So I would not be too surprised to see a new frame set and tailbox out by this time next year for the Ion-X.
90% of the Prototyping can be done with the 50. The helicopters are not too far off in terms of the systems involved. Make the fram a bit bigger and reinforce the areas that will need it for the larger mains. The geartrain is the same. So again just adapt the 50 system into a slightly larger frame set.
The KV's and overall motor specs are not much different at this time.

I still have one down due to my Hacker motor not being back. Maybe I will just have to convert that one to a belt driven Hacker setup. :D

[WillJames]

I know you can easily go to the belt driven hacker, but getting rid of the split gear system (and the weight of it) is what I was talking about. I would love to get rid of that heavy split gear. Going to a belt from the motor to the pinion that drives the main gear is not that big of deal as long as you have not cut out the fingers from your frameset.

If I go belt, I would love to go all the way. :glasses2: Not just half way.

I agree that maybe by next year, but I want it now. ;)

[fitenfyr]

Well to go belt to maingear on the Hacker wouldn't work.
The gearing is not right for that motor. The maingear would have to be pretty small and the motor pinion very large, even at that you might overdrive the head still.
Plus the Hacker just wouldn't be efficent with a single stage setup. Not to mention the AMP pull and the overall heat buildup.
You would be hosting an Ion barbeque with that system. :D

I am looking at making the system more reliable and quieter with the belt on the second stage. Even though I have had zero issues with the 2 stage gearing it is just plain noisy. :D

I agree all belts would be nice and it is coming I am sure of it. :wink:

The only true way to get rid of the split gear is to go with the outrunners and the lower KV motors.
Even the belt driven electrics like the Joker and such are using an outrunner in the 400KV range.
The Hackers 1000+kv is just too fast for the single stage setups, but if done right it is more efficent than the outrunners I am told.
What I have seen so far I found that to be true. My stock Hacker setup provided a longer flight time than my Actro setup. However I have too many variables in there right now to say 100% that the motor efficency caused the drop in flight time.
Soon as my Hacker comes back I will have pretty much identical setups with close to the same headspeeds. Then I can really see how much difference there is between the two setups for my applications.

Now if I could just get a decent battery that would hold up and not cost me 1K. :arggg:
I hear that is coming also, but like you I want it now...:D

Oh and Paul.....
I talked to Chris today. I would give him an e-mail about the Actro belt setup. I think he can hook you up. :D

[PDC]

Hi fitenfyr!

Thanks! would like to be hooked on a belt drive ;-)...Chris can just send it to me as soon as he have one. If it is a prototype, I will test it for him too :-).

It is true that inrunners are some few percent more efficient than outrunners as a thumb rule. But if it takes an extra gear stage, these few percent might be eaten up by extra friction and weight I guess. Guess it is a close run.

Think there will be more room to individualize your heli with an X-Cell e-50 compared to the Heinseleit 3DMP.

Paul

[fitenfyr]

Paul,
The one thing I have heard time and again from the guys at MA is the Ion was designed to accomidate as many gearing possibilities as they could.
The belt systems are just another step in that direction. :D

Gearing is everything in the electric world. You are right some helis are pretty much worthless if you don't run the system they were setup for.

The Ion is nothing like that. Seems like everyday somebody has shoe horned a new motor in one. :D

[PDC]

If there will be a Ion-X 2, I hope the gearing setup will be something like on the Joker 2, which too looks similar to the setup on the coming X-cell 50 heli.

The belt drive on the Joker 2, which also supports the powerful 3.5HP Plettenberg Plettenberg HP 370/40/A2 motor, must be well tested by now.


http://www.joker-usa.com/_uimages/Joker2_frame.jpg


Paul

[GGoodrum]

We've been testing belt drives around here for a couple of months now. Here's a couple of shots of the setups we've been playing with so far:

http://www.tppacks.com/photos/Ion-Belt-3.jpg

http://www.tppacks.com/photos/Ion-Belt-4.jpg

The first is for the 32-3 Heli. We're using the standard 90T/15T primary gear setup, and a 24T/12T pulley combo, with a 35T belt for the 2nd stage. This gives a final reduction ratio of 12:1.

The second setup is the new 1521-1.5Y NeuMotor, with a 40T/10T pulley arrangement, with a 45T belt.

Both setups work VERY well on 12s, especially the 1521. This motor makes an excellent drop-in replacement for the Hacker in a 10s setup, as it is better sized (XXL?) for the job. It runs a ton cooler and puts out gobs more torque. On 12s, however, this motor turns into a monster! It will easily hit 4000W+ peaks and has enough torque to want to rip the blades off. :)

We are currently using the big XL (5.08mm) pitch belts and pulleys, but after doing a bit of research, I think the slightly smaller HTD (3 mm) pitch stuff that Chris is using on his Proton 50 prototypes will more than handle the loads, so I ordered up a bunch of belts and pulleys to try this week. These will be a lot lighter, and easier to install. There's not much room to play with on the 40T/10T combo, and we had to flip the motor mount 180 degrees to get it to fit at all.

-- Gary

[fitenfyr]

Gary,
Thanks for posting those...
Chris and I talked last week about doing the 40T/10T setup on my Hacker when it gets back.
We were going to see how low we could get it to try and obtain a final drive of around 24:1 for AP work.
I can see some Dremel tool work will be in order. :D

[PDC]

Thanks a lot Gary!

looks great...too think these NEU motors are some real winner motors, I have NEU in my T-REX, my Raptors, and soon in my X-Cells as well ;-). 4KW+ thats what I am looking for :twisted: , Guess you need some good batteries to cope with this motor.


Thanks!

Paul

PS. No hard auto´s with the NEU motor I can see ;-)