CC Castle Link - Governor programming....

[JaggedEdge]

Anyone else nervous about programming their ESC and then firing up their heli? :happyd

I'm running a Z20a with a 15t pinion 500mm blades.
15/42/19/61
(61/19)x(42/15) = 8.988:1

What should my target head speed be?

################################################## #####
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: Wednesday, July 02, 2008
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
################################################## #####
Brake Strength: 0
Brake Delay: .6 sec (Delayed) (*)
Brake Ramp: Super Slow
Current Limiting: Normal (*)
Cutoff Voltage: Auto Li-Po (*)
Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff
Motor Start Power: 39
Motor Timing: 5
Direction: Forward (*)
PWM Rate: 12 Khz (*)
Hex55: 85
Vehicle Type: Helicopter
Throttle Type: Governor Mode
Throttle Response: 5
Governor Gain: 7
Initial Spool-Up Rate: 2
Head Speed Change Rate: 5
Auto Rotate Enabled: False
Governor Mode Type: Fixed
Vehicle Setup - Battery Type: LiPo
Vehicle Setup - Number of Cells: 6
Vehicle Setup - Battery Voltage: 22.20
Vehicle Setup - Gear Ratio: 8.9880
Vehicle Setup - Motor Kv: 980
Vehicle Setup - Motor Number of Poles: 8
Desired Head Speed 1: 1700
Desired Head Speed 2: 1800
Desired Head Speed 3: 1900

[mysticmead]

2299rpm using 95% efficiency

[JaggedEdge]

2299rpm using 95% efficiency

So should I run it governed at that or should I go lower with the motor pinion?

[mysticmead]

all depends on the type of flying you plan on doing... since you have the z20a.. I'll assume you don't plan on hard core 3D... if that's the case...I find a head speed around 1800-1900 plenty for ME and MY flying style.. what you like might be a lot different

[JaggedEdge]

all depends on the type of flying you plan on doing... since you have the z20a.. I'll assume you don't plan on hard core 3D... if that's the case...I find a head speed around 1800-1900 plenty for ME and MY flying style.. what you like might be a lot different

So with a 15t wouldnt the esc be throttled back to around 80-85% for 1900rpm?
Is it better for the esc to go with 100% and gear it for the head speed or depend on the esc/gov?

I'm only a FF/8's working on loops and rolls with my 450 which I also plan on doing with the 550.
Obviously I've never messed with a governor before.

also... dumb question but I have to ask until I find out in the docs.. what do I do with my t-curves in the radio? Are they ignored by the esc?

[JaggedEdge]

well after struggling for a couple hours and searching around rcgroups..
The esc acted like it wouldn't config. Turns out with the dx7 the low throttle endpoint needs to be above 100%. 125% seems to be doing the trick.

DOH. I thought my Phoenix 80 was dead.

[skigolfmike]

First - go to Finless videos on Phoenix HV85 setup. The Phoenix 80 will be the same. First thing you do is set the endpoints in your TX 125% is too high.

Next, with a 15T pinion you're looking at 2300 rpm 85% throttle is going to be about 2200 rpm. 2100 is going to be about 75%. If you want to run the headspeeds you are thinking of you will need a 13T pinion.

Electric motors are funny things. Max torque is at 0 rpm and min torque is at full rpm. 85% throttle usually is 90+% rpm, not 85% rpm.

If you set your governor rpm 100-200rpm less than the theoretical max, you'll have enough head room for the governor to work.

[JaggedEdge]

thank you.

First - go to Finless videos on Phoenix HV85 setup. The Phoenix 80 will be the same. First thing you do is set the endpoints in your TX 125% is too high.

Next, with a 15T pinion you're looking at 2300 rpm 85% throttle is going to be about 2200 rpm. 2100 is going to be about 75%. If you want to run the headspeeds you are thinking of you will need a 13T pinion.

Electric motors are funny things. Max torque is at 0 rpm and min torque is at full rpm. 85% throttle usually is 90+% rpm, not 85% rpm.

If you set your governor rpm 100-200rpm less than the theoretical max, you'll have enough head room for the governor to work.

[skigolfmike]

No problem.

Here's the thing. If you use the governor to throttle back the motor to get a low head speed, two things happen. You won't like either one of them.

First lower hear speed means less TR authority, so the tail doesn't hold as well. Second, you put the motor down in the rpm range where it still makes a lot of torque. So, on a punch out the motor has the power, but the tail doesn't have the authority. That's why the gearing for the head speed is critical on an electric. You want to have enough torque to have power, but not so much you can't control the tail.

[JaggedEdge]

I settled at 1925/2025/2125
I also kept lowering the LT limit until more was needed.

TC
0/40/40/40/40
80/80/80/80/80
100/100/100/100/100

They were suggested on rcgroups and it is working on the bench to get me going.

I haven't watched "the video" yet but I will tonight to clear up any of my continued confusion.

thanks for the nudge in the right direction.

[bugdozer]

You didn't watch the video!

He He He ;)

[JaggedEdge]

You didn't watch the video!

He He He ;)

grumble grumble videos.. grumble. I'm such a grump. I must be getting old. :thumbdown:

[ke6d]

grumble grumble videos.. grumble. I'm such a grump. I must be getting old. :thumbdown:

If you did not watch the video, how did you set your end point travels on the ESC?

I have 4 Phoenix ESCs and have to set throttle end point travels every time I change motor.

To set end point travels, you need to put the ESC in fixed pitch heli mode first, remove the main/and tail blades. Set your TX throttle low and high end points to 50%.

Leave the throttle stick at the lowest position, flip off TH, the heli should start spinning up (no blades). Slowly decrease the low TC end point travel until the main rotor stop spinning. Decrease this value another 5% for safety.

Now move the throttle stick all the way up, the heli should spin up. Slowly increase the high TC end point travel until the RED LED on the ESC turn on solid. Add another 5% to this value.

Your end points are now set. The full text of this procedure can be found on trextuning.com

Now if you want to use governor mode, you can go ahead and switch the ESC back to governor mode.

I also have a comment about the headspeed calculation. This number is just a theoretical number based on the gearing ratio, motor Kv and battery voltage. I does not take into account loss due to friction in the real world. It also does not take into account any load on the system. It is useful because it let you know the maximum number that the current gearing/motor/battery config can achieve. You should take this value with a grain of salt.

The only accurate way of measuring headspeed under load is to use a optical tach or a calibrated Eagletree brushless sensor (or Eagletree optical/magnet sensor)

On my set up, Z20a 980Kv, 14T pinion, 41T/61T main, 20T OWB, the headspeed calculator predicts 2377 rpm headspeed, but when I spun the heli on the ground at 0 degree pitch and measure using the Skytach, the headspeed is only around 2100 rpm at 100% TC. The headspeed drops to 1950 when I get the heli into hovering. When I do tic-toc, the motor bogged and the headspeed is all over the place.

The point to this long reply is that the governor mode is not going to help you much if your motor bogged very badly. The only way to keep the motor from bogging is going with a smaller pinion (or increasing the gearing ratio), but then you will be running at lower headspeed.

I finally swapped out the Z20a motor for the Scorpion 3026-1210 Kv last weekend because I want to be able to sustain a 2300 rpm headspeed without bogging the motor for the 3D maneuvers that I am working on. The only drawback with the new Scorpion motor is that my FP 3300 mA EVO30 packs only last 4:30 min now instead of 6:30-7:00 min on the Z20a motor :(

Hope this helps,

Dan

[JaggedEdge]

Thanks for the info.. I read on another forum and got clues from there on how to set the endpoints. Once I saw that it became pretty obvious and did almost exactly what you explained.

I understand its theoretical head speed. It is a starting point and will do just fine for a gov"nuh" nOOb like me. I'm not doing 3d, just lazy loops and rolls at most. I hate bogging the motor and believe I actually have pretty decent, although nOOb, collective management.

No offense to Mike, or anyone else, I dislike it when we tell people to watch the video. It does nothing for someone searching the forum for info.

So for anyone searching the forum for information and not wanting to watch the video I appreciate your post very much!!

[mharpo]

I don't know what videos you watched, but that is not how the Finless video I watched said to set the throttle end points, nor is it the way that CC outlines in their materials. Now, being a relative noob, I may be talking about something else entirely. The method that I've seen is to set end points to 50, set throttle stick to high, fire up ESC, wait for tones, increase value until confirmation tone, increase a couple of more points, disable ESC, set throttle to low stick, repeat, done.

What is interesting about what you've posted to me is that after I've done all the things I've described above and put my HV85 in Gov mode, when I switch to TH, my heli spins up, after I've armed in normal at 0 stick. Would appreciate knowing more about this whole subject. Am I totally off track? Please help.

[skigolfmike]

mharpo is right about setting the end points.

However, with the new Beta 2.0 software everything has changed. Now you can program in the headspeed before you fly. Much faster setup. I programmed my CC35 and my CCHV85 like that. Works great.