9s Lipo Setup

[vicrc]

What do you all think about a 9s setup?

Been running the Hurry for a while now on 6s and 8sA123. With a headspeed of 2400 rpm its just killing my flight packs, specially now its summer and the ambient temps have been in the 90 degree F. I have decided to run 9s setup on my Hurry to get cooler running batteries and be able to get a decent flight time. With a 6s1p in series with 3s1p will fit fine on my CHP frame and still be in the 650 gram pack weight, which is the same weight at my current 8sA123. I am no expert but as understood, if I was drawing 60 amps with a 6s I should be lowering that to 40 amps because of the higher voltage.

I will report my finding in a few days... but this is what I will be using

CHP Carbon Frame
Z30 1100kv
60T Front Gear
61T Main Gear
20T OWB
14T Pinion = 2545 HS at 90%
13T Pinion = 2363 HS at 90%

ESC = CC85HV + Medusa BEC

9s = 3 each 3s1p 2500ma Zippy-R = 610 grams
9s = 3 each 3s1p 3300ma Zippy-H = 810 grams
9s = 6s1p + 3s1p 2500ma Evo = 605 grams

I am just waiting on my 60T front gear to get my tests started.

Any comments or suggestions would be helpful as this will be my first 9s setup.

BTW, I have tried a parallel 6s setup and it was very nice as it reduce the amp draw on each pack by 1/2 and the batteries were nice and cool after flight. The draw back was the size and weight as well as two flight packs to fly one time, UGH!

[mysticmead]

have you thought about running 2x 5s in parallel?? you'd have the reduced amp draw and if geared right could get some good head speed or flight times...

[vicrc]

Mystic, have thought about that also, but since I also fly a Trex 500 I can still use my 6s 2500 packs on it and did not want to get additional packs, was also thinking about a 12s setup but would have to change to revco gears.

[vicrc]

The 9s 2500 balances perfectly, except for the 3300 a bit nose heavy. Using the short tail.

[mysticmead]

that looks like it could be fun :D

[JaggedEdge]

nice heli vic. got some more pictures some where?
What servos are you running on the CHP frames?

[FlyawayClyde]

The 9s 2500 balances perfectly, except for the 3300 a bit nose heavy. Using the short tail.

Hey VIC I notice here on your CHP Frame there you are using what looks to be on the Battery mount supports Aluminum uprights rather than the supplied Carbonfiber ??

[vicrc]

I am using 9650s servos, since I crash a lot I have a dozen servo gears always in hand! LOL. They are smooth and powerful enough on this heli.

Now you know I am a crasher, I hope one day not to be. Maybe its my 'Wicked noob3D'n' , I had to change the broken battery support holder to aluminum as its faster for me to make than to buy one online. The faster I fix my heli, the less people at my field know I crashed ;). I just traced the profile to an aluminum sheet and cut them to shape then sand papered the edges and drilled holes, haven't broke them yet even after a nose in crash. For the gear support mounts, I lost the carbon landing gear plates on the 3rd crash and so made pieces from an angled aluminum that mounts to the side of the frame, haven't broke them yet either and have gone through 3 gear so far. If I had to make the gear mounts again, I would have made holes spaced exactly what the Trex 600 gears so I wouldn't have to keep drilling the gears :mad:.

Just yesterday I crashed, and that picture I posted was today all fixed, broke the frame finally but fixed it with carbon sheets doublers. This is what happened, I was at inverted doing 8s and the ESC cuts out!!! OMG! WTHF! Its my very first auto at 20 feet above cement and its F*#$& inverted! I tried aileron flip and hit cement at an angle. A few more feet it would have crashed on the mains perfectly, but either way it was a fast fall from the sky. Its a good thing I had my woody on :YeaBaby:.

So my intent to run 9s is to draw less amps from batteries and keep them from overheating, and maybe no more ESC cut outs.

[gpach]

Vic, if you have a spare 61 tooth main gear, you can use it as the front gear rather than waiting for th 60. Need to emery the thickness a bit as the front is a bit thinner but not a problem.

Like the testing you are doing with this machine. Will be interesting to hear how your the higher voltage and low current effects your temperatures.

[JaggedEdge]

I am using 9650s servos, since I crash a lot I have a dozen servo gears always in hand! LOL. They are smooth and powerful enough on this heli.

So my intent to run 9s is to draw less amps from batteries and keep them from overheating, and maybe no more ESC cut outs.

Thanks for the info. I'm hoping 5245's fit the CHP frames. If not I'll go with 9650's, they are faster.

[FlyawayClyde]

Thanks for the info. I'm hoping 5245's fit the CHP frames. If not I'll go with 9650's, they are faster.

Just yesterday I received my CHP frames, I was going to use my 821s That are in my plastic frame:confused: will they not work ???

[JaggedEdge]

Sorry about the threadjack vic... Maybe you can shed some light on this.
The servo mounts for the frames have an opening for 9650's which are 1.4" long.
I believe ds821's are 1.5" long. Maybe you can file the mounts to 1.5", I'm not sure.
I measured the mounts and they are exactly 1.4" and don't have a lot of extra material.
I'm worried about the opposite. I'd like to run metal gear servos and the 5245's are 1.27" long. Pretty sure I can make up the difference but I won't know for sure until I have the servos.

That's a lot of maybes.

[mysticmead]

Just yesterday I received my CHP frames, I was going to use my 821s That are in my plastic frame:confused: will they not work ???

nope.. the 821's are to big.. the CHP frame was made for 9650's

[FlyawayClyde]

nope.. the 821's are to big.. the CHP frame was made for 9650's
Ah poop.

[FlyawayClyde]

nope.. the 821's are to big.. the CHP frame was made for 9650's
ah poop should have looked a little closer there. well now I need more Heli-crack :banana

[JaggedEdge]

I forgot, the cf mounts have press nuts. No go on a 1.5" servo.

[vicrc]

JE, no hijack at all, we have the same frame so we can shed some insights on the subject. I have heard someone here that used the 5245 servos on his CHP frame. The mini servos will fit but not the standard size servos. You save quite a few grams not using full size servos. You can also use HS225MG if you want to go cheaper route. In my noobness I wont be able to tell the difference. I have them on my Trex 500 and a few great pilots test flew it and I wish I can do 1 percent of what they can do.

Gpach! Awesome it worked and thanks!!! I took my spare 61T main gear and made it a 61T front gear with a belt sander. With a 13T pinion that gives me 2354 rpm at 90 %.

I will give it a whirl tomorrow.

[ukgroucho]

You should get pretty decent flight times even using the 2500s. And I'd expect you to see amp draw down in the 12 - 14 amp range for hovering. You may still see peaks of 60 - 70 amps if you work it hard (big pitch reversals or banging in a load of pitch at the bottom of a steep descent).

I run 10S (2x5S packs in series) with a z30 800Kv Gaui 61/50/13 gearing. Kontronik Jazz in governor mode with HS in the 2200 - 2250 range (depends on which packs I use). 5 mins of agressive sport flying and mild 3D will consume around 1300MaH. I use 2300MaH and (just got some) 2200MaH packs so 6 to 7 mins would be maximum for me.
With 2500MaH packs you will have similar flight times at 2200 headspeed... running higher HS increases power consumption in a non-linear fashion so I'd suggest limiting to 4 or 5 mins to begin with.

[gpach]

Gpach! Awesome it worked and thanks!!! I took my spare 61T main gear and made it a 61T front gear with a belt sander. With a 13T pinion that gives me 2354 rpm at 90 %.

I will give it a whirl tomorrow.

glad your off and away. I envy you as its killing me not getting the CHP frame. I keep looking at it when they are out of stock and thinking about it but then I know I have a few crashes ahead of me and dont want to mangle a $150.00 frame. It would work so much better for balance though. One day as I work my way through all the other crack items to spend money on.

Make sure you post on the 9S results.

[vicrc]

You should get pretty decent flight times even using the 2500s. And I'd expect you to see amp draw down in the 12 - 14 amp range for hovering. You may still see peaks of 60 - 70 amps if you work it hard (big pitch reversals or banging in a load of pitch at the bottom of a steep descent).

I run 10S (2x5S packs in series) with a z30 800Kv Gaui 61/50/13 gearing. Kontronik Jazz in governor mode with HS in the 2200 - 2250 range (depends on which packs I use). 5 mins of agressive sport flying and mild 3D will consume around 1300MaH. I use 2300MaH and (just got some) 2200MaH packs so 6 to 7 mins would be maximum for me.
With 2500MaH packs you will have similar flight times at 2200 headspeed... running higher HS increases power consumption in a non-linear fashion so I'd suggest limiting to 4 or 5 mins to begin with.


That is some good info there. My target is 2300-2400 head speed and get 5 min with hard flying, which I really cant do on 6s without killing my packs. I dont have an e-loger yet but will see how much flight time I can get.

[ukgroucho]

vicrc.. 5-6 mins might be possible with the 2500s at 2300 - 2400 HS, but you need to build up to it - try 4 mins then 5 mins etc. and check what you put back in.
The HV stuff runs more efficient for sure but also it allows enormous bursts of power... I've seen nearly 2000 watt bursts from my z30 800... Some manouvers (like tight funnels) can give very high sustained draw so if you start doing that stuff then you'll pull a lot of amps (and MaH) from the packs.. you just need to feel out what the consumption is with your flying style.

[kahn10]

hmmmmmm....... i reckon i could fit another 3300 3s pack down the gut of my plastic frame.it wouldn't screw with the c of g there.....3300 9s.......christ that would give a constant amps round the 200+ mark and bursts of 500.thats insane :YeaBaby:

[ukgroucho]

kahn10.. err.. No. We're talking connecting in series not parallel.

When you connect packs in series you do not increase the potential amp draw.

So if you have a 3S 3300 20 / 30 C pack then it can deliver (theoretically) 66 amps continuous and 99 amp bursts. If you connect in series to create 6S or 9S then you do not change this behaviour.

But here is the difference...
Let's work with 20C - 66 amps for a 3300 3S pack.
One pack is 11.1V nominal so 66 amps gives 11.1 x 66 = 732 watts.
Two packs (in series) gives 22.2 x 66 = 1464 watts - typical 6S Hurri 550 power (think about the 1500 watt Gaui motor).
Three packs gives 33.3 x 66 = 2197 watts ... that's serious power, more than a 550 needs (and it depends on your moptor as to whether you will ever see it).

Now in reality what happens is that a 550 needs (maybe) 500 watts to hover... the difference between 6S and 9S is a 50% drop in amps required for that power delivery (so 15 amps instead of 22). Normal flying on 9S will barely tax your packs and you will have a huge reserve (if your motor can deliver) to accomodate big power spikes.

The other benefit is that high voltage setups (because they draw less amps) are generally more efficient... of course this depends on the appropriate power setup (motor and ESC).

[vicrc]

I managed to not get a decent test, UGH! First set of battery, flight was a waste of time had to adjust blade tracking as the woodies where way off compared to the MAH CF Blades I have on now, then still more vibs due to one of the servos had bad gears, tested fine on the bench? Tried again everything smooth but head speed was way too slow with 13T pinion around 2100 rpm, I guess my calculation was wrong. Changed to 15T pinion as I could not find my 14T pinion. With the 15T, I did nothing but try keeping the headspeed from blowing up the heli, its a monster! The 14T would be good as the 15T is way above 2600 rpm. With all this I could not get a continuous test flight as I kept having to make throttle adjustments.

The good news, even with the Heli screaming with headspeed the batteries remain cool and not hot. The motor got hot, but I know its overworked. Will test again with a 14T.

[vicrc]

Got two 3 minute flights with moderate 3D with 14T pinion, Skytach showed 2480 at 95 % and 2370 at 90%. It was too fast on the 15T and had to run it at 75% , however it pulled 1400ma for a 3 minute flight. I will charge the used packs tonight and find out how much ma it used up. Even at 2480 head speed the 9s packs where only warm, a 6s 2500 would be puffing at 2480 head speed and Z30-1100 motor, been there done that.