Pro-Tek 3000 report...

[Drew816]

Just finished the break-in cycle with my Pro-Teks 3000's, 20c batteries and I have to say overall I'm impressed. They're more 'compact' then my Zippy 3300's, nicely made, they were $43 on sale at A Main Hobbies. They have a 50% crash replacement guarantee as well so that's always nice.

I flew for 10:34 on them today, sport flying to include figure 8's, FF, Racetracks, heavy stall turns, punch ups, all poorly executed of course but... On my CellPro 4s they each showed about 3.75 volts on each cell or 12% fuel left and I put back in 2700 mah's into each. Probably a bit more then I should have so I'll back it off this next time around and bump up my HR Poly's warning tone.

They're out of stock at the moment but I spoke to AMain and they will be carrying them again, they stated it would be a few months and I think the original asking price was $59.99? Wish I'd known it would be a while before they we're going to have them in stock I'd have bought a few more at $43 a shot!

[vicrc]

Drew, good info! I have them also but got them for my Trex 500 have 5 cycles on them. I thought they just stopped carrying them as I see no listing on their site anymore. Would be nice to see them again as I need another 3s for my 9s setup. They will be perfect for my 5-6 min of 'Noob3D' rampage ;).

[mjdee14]

Drew...

What the heck are you running for headspeed? 600 rpms ? 10.34 mins ??:wow2:

[Drew816]

I'm running a 15-20-50-61 with the 1100kv Gaui H-18H Super-Pig motor. I have my curves backed off about 5% and note I've yet to EVER go 100% on the throttle but if I were too I'd be clocking 2,042 rpms. So I'm guessing I'm routinely spinning 1800-1900 rpms.

Yeah, I've been surprised as well especially considering the reputation of the Super-Pig motor; so far I'm pretty happy with the setup and if a Z20A-980 gets me ever better flight times then I'm pumped and need to get one. Though I have to say, after about 6-7 minutes I'm pretty worn out, I've started to do my 'heavy sport flying' at first and then I bring her in more close and putzing around to keep the Heli-Crack shakes down a bit. ;)

And again I took a bit much out of the batteries this time around, not 'horrible' but I'll back that off a bit. Even so I'd likely still be getting 9 minutes on the Pro-Teks. I'd claim it's because I'll build such a kick ass helo; but if I make that claim it will likely come flying apart in mid-air the next time I flew so we'll just say I 'lucked out' this build and seemed to have gotten something right; for a change! :thumbup: :YeaBaby: :cheers

[mjdee14]

Drew..

I think your going to find....as I did....as you get better at flying and more comfortable with the heli.....your amp draw will start to go up......you will push harder, and more often and you'll be down to 6 mins or so.....

If you keep your HS low you will get more flight time, but once you get "bitten" by the speed bug, it's hard to fly at the 1800 any more.....but that's the fun of it.

As one HF said...I would rather have 5 mins of insane fun...than 10 mins of boring flying....

It's all in what you like and your likes do change.....

Just enjoy it and "take in the heli crack"

[Drew816]

Yes, I'm sure that will be the case as time goes on. But I'm surprised I'm getting these long runs times regardless; I may just be doing some pokey sport level flying but I'm keeping the energy up really hammering the stall turns in the figure 8's and still getting long run times. I guess that means that I'm really not pushing as hard as I think, must work harder to be one with the Heli-Force.

As the Heli-Master Yoda once said: "one does not try to fly inverted, one does, or one does not thereby causing between $100-500 in damage in the process..." :YeaBaby:

I did my first wing/blade over today too, that was fun and good LORD this helo can get cranking fast coming back down, phew!

[ivorz]

I also have the protek 3000's and get the same flight times (sport ). I wanted to order more but can't find them. Where did you get yours from?

[Drew816]

Ivorz; In reply to your question, A Main are 'the vendors' for the Protek batteries, it's their 'store brand' if you will...

UPDATE: Okay, since my latest rebuild I've been putting the Gaui through it's paces and attempting to get my confidence back up again (ugh!), but I've noticed a trend here with the Protek's, any hard to moderate use and my HR Poly alarm is going off. So I could have been flying for say 1:30 and I put her into a sloppy Figure 8 and I start to hear the alarm going off knowing full well that I have at LEAST another 2:30 - 3 minutes of time left (and probably more than that!). I think the quick 'draw' on the batteries, the high loading sets the HR Poly off even though there's pently of mah left in the batteries.

So I land the helo, let her spin down and the HR Poly stops chripping, spin her back up and go to start flying again and as soon as I get on it the alarm starts going off again. Funny, my G-Force 2250 - 20C T-Rex 450 batteries don't do this but these 3000 mah 20C Proteks do, probably not a good sign...

I'll keep testing them and report back but as of now I'm giving them a Marginal review at least for Gaui 550 use; if I'm setting them off then someone that can really fly would likely be doing this all the time. And of course you can just ignore your Lipo alarm if you even have one and fly the clock, but I think this is a symptom of a bigger problem that being a lower than advertised C rating. Maybe not but I've NEVER hit 100% throttle on my Gaui even in punch ups, I'm spinning at around 18-1900 rpm and doing light sport crashing and occassional flying so... And of course I'm running the known power hog the Gaui 1100kv Super-Pig H-18H motor which maybe is contributing here to this situation.

Thoughts?

[xodarap1]

Have you tried adjusting the trigger point on your HR-Poly? Maybe you have it set to go off earlier than you need it to.

[Drew816]

The trigger point is determined by total voltage left in each cell, but that's not what's setting off the alarm; it's going off because of a QUICK draw of power. Once it goes off if I were to land, spin down and measure the available voltage it would well exceed the trigger point. This is a 'known' issue with at least the HR Poly alarm, BUT what it illustrates to me as that the battery isn't handling the power draw very well; you take off with the Proteks fresh, you're just poking along and all is well, then HAMMER the throttle and the alarm is going off. My trigger point is 3.8 volts on each cell and there's no WAY I just went from 4.2 to 3.8 in 1 minute on a 3000 mah if you know what I mean... Well not me anyway, maybe a real helo pilot could do that! :noteworthy

Maybe I'm wrong, but in my experience using the HR Poly's on my T-Rex 450's only my really 'cheapie batteries' would ever have this happen. My FlightPower 25C - 2100 has NEVER set the alarm off early on a like punchup on my 450, but the cheapy ABF battery that was rated at 20C that later puffed would set the alarm off in the first few seconds on a hard punch up.

And again, this is an HR Poly thing too; I get that, but it 'illustrates' to me that these batteries are taking a beating with some pretty light duty flying. I should likely pick up another Lipo alarm setup at some point to give them a try in comparison...

Happy Flying!

[mysticmead]

the alarm is probably fine.. and it may in fact be the batteries. even though you have plenty of MAH left, you might be pulling power from the pack hard enough to cause the voltage to drop below alarm level.. of course when you land and spool down, voltage goes back up. you already said that it happened on the cheapo packs and they ended up puffing.. if that happens on the proteks, then that would be a failing grade.... out of curiosity, what gauge is the discharge wire?

[Drew816]

What's a Discharge Wire??!?:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Are those wires on the battery itself? They look like 14 gauge from what I can tell.

Hard to say how these batteries will hold up but if MY flying on a Gaui 550 is causing this cascading alarm effect then the rest of you all might want to steer clear.

[vicrc]

I do notice this on my older packs, my hurry with z30 and 2400hs has beaten the heck out of all my packs and noticed an increasing motor cut out with the age of my packs ~40-50 cycles, in reality the packs can no longer maintain the voltage. I have reason to believe the Proteks and ABF packs are made from the same manufacturer. Also the ABF are known brands that over rate. I am not using the Protek on my Hurry only on my Trex 500 and it seems to be fine there as it requires less draw from the pack.

I have about 8 cycles with 2x3s3000 Proteks on my Trex 500. Will see how long they will last. I want to get another 3s to make my 9s flight pack on the Hurry.

[xodarap1]

Hi Drew,

Based on your posts, it sounds like you have had a few longer than normal flights on the packs. Even flying it easier with that motor you may be putting more of a crunch on those packs than you realize and pulling the volts down. The Poly isn't perfect, but it is pretty accurate. And they are only 20C packs. And you are running a power hungry motor. I guess it is possible that on a good hit you are pulling them down to where it triggers the Poly.. even my Kong Power 25C felt the crunch from the Z20 and Z30 motors when hit hard. The voltage you measure when you land and spool down may not be the same as it is when you are hitting it hard in the air. Some of the eagle tree guys should be able to tell you if that is true or not as I don't know.. only guessing. I have noticed that some of my cheaper (and much older) 450 packs will do that (trigger the poly) and my newer Outrage, Thunder Power and Art-Tech packs don't. I usually fly down to 3.8 per cell and some times not even that far anymore, just to play it safe and protect my new packs. You could try to fly them down to 50% and then charge them up at a slow rate to see if that helps. I really don't know bro, just offering thoughts/suggestions.

Steve

Edit: :oops: Oops..sorry, i didn't refresh the page to see that there were other replies.

[Drew816]

If ABF manufacturers (or they're the same) that's answering some questions for me for sure and that doesn't bode well for longevities sake...

I need an EagleTree, that settles it! Time to knock over a few more liquor stores to fund this Heli-Crack habit! ;)

[mjdee14]

Drew...I need to look at my Eagle tree graphs but I know I pull my lipos down to 22.8v with high amp draws.....

3.8v x 6 = 22.8....my eagle tree has shown lov voltage as low as 19.5v for certain manuveres...then when finished it pops back up to 20 or better...

This may be just a normal thing for what you are doing....or maybe they don't hold voltage as good as more expensive packs.

If you didn't have the alarm.....you wouldn't know the difference and wouldn't be worried about it.

if I used them with my ET...all I would see is some spikes to a lower voltage that go back up and I probably wouldn't think a thing about it.

[Drew816]

If you didn't have the alarm.....you wouldn't know the difference and wouldn't be worried about it.

True enough, until they PUFFED in my helo and caught it on fire! ;)

You're of course correct, if you're just flying off of time and putting mah back in the batteries you'd likely never know this was up. However this illustrates to me that these batteries probably aren't quite up to the task for Gaui 550 flying if I'm pushing them to their limits and I just want to let everyone know to keep that in mind especially since my initial report was more favorable...

Happy Flying!

[JaggedEdge]

I was surprised to find the following this morning when I flew the CHP framed 550 for the second time. I raised my TC from 80 to 95 and had just 5m30s before hitting 3.8v per cell.
Last flights I had TC set to 80 and used just 40% in 4minutes.
This is with 6s KP 3200, Z20a 980kv, cc80 esc.

[Drew816]

I was surprised to find the following this morning when I flew the CHP framed 550 for the second time. I raised my TC from 80 to 95 and had just 5m30s before hitting 3.8v per cell.
Last flights I had TC set to 80 and used just 40% in 4minutes.
This is with 6s KP 3200, Z20a 980kv, cc80 esc.

But see I expect you were really FLYING the helicopter, unlike me who's just flopping it around in the sky scaring the locals... :oops: :YeaBaby: :oops: :o :YeaBaby:

There's some truth to your statement though, it doesn't take much to go from 8 minutes of poking around to 6 minutes IF you start to crank on the throttle a bit; let alone even less time on bigger batteries!

And hey, maybe my uncoordinated flying is sucking even more juice? ;)

[mysticmead]

What's a Discharge Wire??!?:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Are those wires on the battery itself? They look like 14 gauge from what I can tell.

Hard to say how these batteries will hold up but if MY flying on a Gaui 550 is causing this cascading alarm effect then the rest of you all might want to steer clear.

discharge wire.. that what has the deans connector on it. :D 14 gauge is minimum that I would even think about using on a lipo. 12 gauge is better. I know a guy that had a 4s pack he flew that had 14 gauge. the pack would get hot as hell because of the thinner wire. he put 12 gauge on it an it no longer got hot. might be somethiong to think about.

[mjdee14]

Drew....

You also know the motor is a pig...the protec's might be fine with a motor like the Z20 that is much easier on lipos.

Your giving them the worst condition they could have....

[JaggedEdge]

But see I expect you were really FLYING the helicopter, unlike me who's just flopping it around in the sky scaring the locals... :oops: :YeaBaby: :oops: :o :YeaBaby:

There's some truth to your statement though, it doesn't take much to go from 8 minutes of poking around to 6 minutes IF you start to crank on the throttle a bit; let alone even less time on bigger batteries!

And hey, maybe my uncoordinated flying is sucking even more juice? ;)

lol Drew. I was actually pretty lazy on the controls. Still getting over the size/crash factor. Its a lot different from the 450.

I really felt like I could get 8 minutes on these packs but now I'm realizing I won't. I am running a 15T though. hmmm..

[Drew816]

Drew....

You also know the motor is a pig...the protec's might be fine with a motor like the Z20 that is much easier on lipos.

Your giving them the worst condition they could have....

Good point, my next step will be to get a new motor but I'd really like to data log my current setup first; so maybe an EagleTree first then a new motor? Humm, time to load up the shotgun and hit a few more liquor stores on the way home and just buy BOTH! ;)

I probably should do the motor first to lighten the load on the entire system AND to give my batteries a break, and follow up with an EagleTree. We'll see...

[mjdee14]

I probably should do the motor first to lighten the load on the entire system AND to give my batteries a break, and follow up with an EagleTree. We'll see...

Definately get the motor FIRST !! The only thing the Eagle tree will do is tell you , you killed the lipos using the old motor.....the motor will help right away....

Although....hit the Liq Store and get both....becuase it would nice to know by using he ET on the old setup then changing motors and seeing the difference....

It's only money.....feed the family cereal for supper for a week and there you go ! :thumbup:

[skigolfmike]

Sounds like a couple of things happening here. Batteries with low C ratings (higher internal resistance) have a greater voltage drop under load than batteries with a high C rating. Also, all batteries internal resistance increases as capacity is used. It's the I^2*R loss (that's power lost in Watts) in the battery. This is also why batteries get hot.

For a 6S setup I think the alarm should be ~18-19V. Even a good battery, under load, at 20% capacity, is going to drop the voltage quite a bit if you hammer it.

My guess as to what you are seeing is batteries that aren't' quite up to the task and once you bleed off the first 30% of capacity, they just aren't capable of the system demands. Once over stressed, the need time to cool off and recover, but, as soon as you put any load on them again, they go south again.

The Proteks might work with a Z20/980 or an HK3026-1000, but not with the H18 or an HK3026-1400 that can reall pull some amps.