Z20/30 vs Scorpion 3026-1000/1210

[gcopas]

Hi Guys,

I was just wondering why no one ever mentions the Scorpion motors for the 550.

Any thoughts on how they stack up to the Z-20/30 motors?

Also, does anyone know of any issues with the Scorpion 60A ESCs and helis?

Someone told me that the Scorpion ESCs were not good in a heli application.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, George

[Mikej]

George,

A couple of guys have used the 1000 Skorpion engine adn were not especially pleased with the performance - from memory it wasn't thought to be quite man enough for the job - a bit boggy.

Cheers,
Mike.

[michael88997]

i was told by readyheli they are designed for the trex 500 so in the bigger hurricane it bogs... plus my z30 is awesome so why change

[gcopas]

OK, then since I am just starting out...hovering only...would the Z 30 be too much for a beginner?

Should I start with the Z 20...I am going to get the basic plastic kit to start with.

Thanks, George

[skigolfmike]

My recommendation is the Z20/980kV motor to start. With the basic kit use 550 woodies. You'll have the long boom and that will make it even more stable. DS821 servos on the cyclic.

Where I wouldn't skimp is gyro and TR servo. You don't necessarily need the 770/8900 combo I have, but you want something that will keep up with you as you progress. Also, look at getting 3000 - 3300 mAh packs. With the Z80 geared to run 1600-1800, you can get 8-10 minutes of flight time.

One thing you don't need right away is the TRex 600 TR hub and grips. The stock grips work fine up to 2000 headspeed. Upgrade when you push the performance.

I have 2 sets of 550 woodies I can sell you when you pull the trigger. Just let me know.

[helvetic]

My recommendation is the Z20/980kV motor to start.

I recommend the Z20 1470KV. It has more power than the Z20 980KV, is good for basic 3D, is gentle to your batteries AND you may use the bigger 61T as the secondary gear. You will never get a stripped gear with this setup.

IMO, this is a better motor than the 980KV. You get more possibilities.

[skigolfmike]

I'm running the Scorpion -1400 motor, so I kind of know how the gearing works out. 13/61 with the 20T OWB is still about 2000 headspeed on the calculator. Plus, I think it's a little easier to gear a 1000-1100kV motor on the 550 anyway. The Z20-980 and the Scorpion -1000 are going to be about the same power wise.

Also, I know George and he'll be fine with either the Z20-980 or the Scorpion -1000.

Lastly, I had no luck with the Scorpion ESC. Even though I followed directions, it didn't play well with my 8V system and I smoked it. Reminds me, gotta call Lucian to see if he got it and if they are going to give me a credit for it.

[gcopas]

Thanks Guys,

So many choices...too little money

George

[mysticmead]

yeah have Mike help ya get setup and going.. he'll take good care of ya.

[ke6d]

I have been running the Scorpion 1210 Kv on my Hurricane for a while now. The power is AWESOME. I am consistently pushing 1300W through the motor. I can do pretty much all power hungry maneuvers with it. This motor does not BOG at all. My Hurricane runs at 2300 rpm headspeed. It can discharge a set of FP3200-EVO 30 packs in 4:30 min.

You need at least a 75A ESC (The Eagletree recorder showed that I have gone above 75A in several maneuvers while testing this motor)

At the end of a hard flight, the motor/battery and ESC temperatures are around 130 F.

If you are looking for a powerful motor for the Hurricane without resorting to the Z30 motor, this is the one :)

I have flown my Hurricane with the RCP H/18 1100Kv, Z20 980Kv and the Scorpion 3026-1210 motors. The Scorpion motor is by far the most powerful motor. The Z20 bogged very badly everytime you bang on the collective.

[vicrc]

You can get a good flight time with the Z30 if want with the correct pinion and with that there is room for higher performance.

[gpach]

I fly the Z20-980 in my hurri 550 and have a friend using the scorpion 3026-1210. We both have eagletree data loggers and have spent a lot of time trying to dial in for the best performance and power consumption. From our findings

The scorpion has more power and is more efficient than the Z20-980 motor. As well it is lighter. The best I can get my z20 down to is 330 watts hover and the blades are moving very slow. The scorpion can hover at 300 watts with a bit higher headspeed.

The scorpion comes down a bit warmer than the z20 but they are both just warm after sport flight (hard banked corners, loops,rolls).

My friend also has a swift 16 with 550 mm carbons on it running the Z20 motor and its performace leaves the 550s wanting especially considering its 400 grams heavier. We obviously have a bit of optimization to do on the 550s as they should be better than the swift with their lighter weight. The flybar paddles will be the next change followed by increasing the swash mixing, bumping the head speed and going with 520 mm carbons.

That being said, someone would have to pry the radio out of my dead fingers before I would give up my 550.

[Pinecone]

What gearing are you guys using with the 3026-1210 motor?

I bought a 3026-1000 for the Hurry at Toledo, but I think I might put it in my QoJ EP8. Which means I need a better motor for the Hurry. I am still running the stock 890 POS.

[ke6d]

What gearing are you guys using with the 3026-1210 motor?

I bought a 3026-1000 for the Hurry at Toledo, but I think I might put it in my QoJ EP8. Which means I need a better motor for the Hurry. I am still running the stock 890 POS.

I am using the stock gearing (41 front /20 OWB/ and 61 rear and an 13T pinion). At 90% TC, I got 2350 rpm from the Skytach tach. The 50T front is probably a much better match, but the only place has it right now is Readyheli. I will order a couple of these gears soon.

[gpach]

What gearing are you guys using with the 3026-1210 motor?

I bought a 3026-1000 for the Hurry at Toledo, but I think I might put it in my QoJ EP8. Which means I need a better motor for the Hurry. I am still running the stock 890 POS.

Here is his current setup.

Scorpion 3026-1210
Pinion: 13
Front gear: 61 (used the main gear and sanded it thinner to fit)
OWB: 19
Main Gear: 61
Zippy 3 cell lipo 3500mAh *2
Swift 520mm woodies.

I believe he is running around 1800-1900 on the head.

[mjdee14]

I fly the Z20-980 in my hurri 550 and have a friend using the scorpion 3026-1210. We both have eagletree data loggers and have spent a lot of time trying to dial in for the best performance and power consumption. From our findings

The scorpion has more power and is more efficient than the Z20-980 motor. As well it is lighter. The best I can get my z20 down to is 330 watts hover and the blades are moving very slow. The scorpion can hover at 300 watts with a bit higher headspeed.

The scorpion comes down a bit warmer than the z20 but they are both just warm after sport flight (hard banked corners, loops,rolls).

My friend also has a swift 16 with 550 mm carbons on it running the Z20 motor and its performace leaves the 550s wanting especially considering its 400 grams heavier. We obviously have a bit of optimization to do on the 550s as they should be better than the swift with their lighter weight. The flybar paddles will be the next change followed by increasing the swash mixing, bumping the head speed and going with 520 mm carbons.

That being said, someone would have to pry the radio out of my dead fingers before I would give up my 550.

Please keep us informed as you guys get these dialed in....maybe start a thread just for your info and update it once in a while......I'm sure there are a lot of interested people....we like to see numbers like the 330 vs the 300 watts at hovering.....very useful in making up ones mind on the next motor to purchase.

Up till now I did not think the scorpion was a good motor for the 550...

[mysticmead]

looks like the 1210 or 1400 might be a good way to go for the scorpion... cheaper than the Zpower too

[Sircrashalott]

Some guys are running the Scorpion HK-3026-1400 in trex 600's with good power but the bearings don't last too long

might be better in the lighter 550

[skigolfmike]

I'm running the 3026-1400 in my 550. It's got gear ripping power.:smokin: Let me tell you.

The -1000 is a 1300W motor and the -1210 is a 1380W motor. The -1400 is a whopping 1680W motor. That's a big jump in available power. I'm geared 16/61/20/61 and I'm running 2250 in hover with a Skytach on a 100-85-100 throttle curve near the end of a flight. Theoretical headspeed is 2500+ with this gearing.:YeaBaby:

I wish I had an EagleTree or something like it. No matter how I fly it I put 2200-2400mAh back in the 3200 Evo 30s after a 4:30 flight. At least I know when the timer starts beeping I have a little reserve. The bottom line is the -1400 may not be the amp sucking pig the H18 motor is, but, when you gear for high head speed, it's pretty close.

Based off the data above, I'd say go with the -1000 motor. More gearing options as you progress and it's only $75 while the Z20-980 is close to $100. Be wary of the Scorpion ESCs. I have one on a plank that works great, but I smoked an 90A on my Hurri 550.

[gpach]

The scorpion ESC's are not ready for helis yet. Scorpion has admitted the slow start is all but non functional. First time I tried one on my 500 I barely bumped the throttle up and the heli kicked 90 degree's as the motor took off. Some guys cant even use them on their helis the start is so violent.

Am awaiting word of a fix in the firmware.

[worldofmaya]

I'm running 8s A123 and just completely shaved my rear main gear with my OBL 43/11, pretty much the same as the Z30. All of my gears are destroyed and the one-way works in both ways :)
I've build everything back to my Scorpion 1600kV motor. The logger says it has the same power, but the OBL seams to have much more torque than anything else. Too much for a Hurri...
Anyway, Scorpion is a nice compromise between power and flight time. Mine works great with a Jazz Esc. The Gaui Esc doesn't work quit well with Scoprions...
-klaus

[mjdee14]

From the pictures of the motor at Amain...it sure looks like it could be made by the Z-Power factory.... Does it look similar to a Z30?

I took my two helis out today and flew the z20 plastic with 2500 25c's and the z30 with 3200 30c's. I honestly can't say that there is much difference except the Z30 doesn't bog on punch outs....but I'm kind of surprised I don't feel a much bigger difference.

i'm running 14/42 20/61 gaui 50a on the plastic....and 13/52 20/61 align 75a on the z30.....

with the talk of stripping gears and such....I expected a little more from the z30.....i did have the 15t on it initially.

might it be the esc settings.....or are people running high gears for much higher headspeed and stripping the gears...like with a 15 or 16 t pinion?

[worldofmaya]

it's pretty much the same... I heard that they use more strength when coiling a Z30. The difference I felt between my OBL and a 1600kV Scorpion was that you have some kind of extra kick... I couldn't see much difference in my logs because I use LiFe. They don't have that much peak amps like lipos, but I think with good lipos you'll get much more performance. I also tried around 2400rpms and the power really awesome... but I don't think that a Hurri is build for that much performance. I'll but my OBL into my storage and maybe a Logo will be the new home...
I lost about 1 to 1,5min flight time with the OBL. 4,5 to 5 min with Scorpion and 3,5 to 4 with OBL. And of course this extra kick was the reason why all my gears had to be replaced. They where like new :(
Another thing is weight...
Scoprion -> 196gr
OBL ~280gr
-klaus

[xodarap1]

Right now I'm running the 16T/42/20/61 on the z20 and 13T/42/20/61 on the z30 and at 100% in S2 mode, there is a huge difference in what the helis can do. Even in S1 mode at 75% it's very noticeable. The overall speed and punch of the z30 is much greater than the z20. I've been enjoying flying the CF z30 heli with the 13T and 14T setup with stock gears and it is great in the air, never have had any problems stripping gears or problems with the stock tails at these speeds. I wouldn't want to run higher than the 14T with the z30 in stock config at 100% throttle, but don't see that I'd ever need more speed for anything anyway. I've seen a great pilot run a z30 hurri doing 3-D at lower head speeds than i'm running. The only limiting factor in my setup is my skill level lol. :)

[worldofmaya]

I know what you mean... I'm using the Scorpion for now. Enough power without damaging gears.
-klaus