How heavy is too heavy?

[MonsterMaxx]

I think I can shoehorn this 3s1p 1000mah pack I have now and can balance the heli out nicely. It'll tip the scales at 315 grams. Is that too heavy?

This pack is essentially twice the weight of the 2s DN pack and I'm afraid it'll be too heavy.

What are you folks ending up with for a final weight?

[Buzzkill]

Most people's AUW is in the 260-280 range.

[t-driver]

I think I can shoehorn this 3s1p 1000mah pack I have now and can balance the heli out nicely. It'll tip the scales at 315 grams. Is that too heavy?

This pack is essentially twice the weight of the 2s DN pack and I'm afraid it'll be too heavy.

What are you folks ending up with for a final weight?


i fly on 3S 910mah kokam cellpro
Weight:84Grams
Dimensions:65mmx33mmx17mm
and i see no difference with lighter packs other than i need less "up-trim." (3 clicks).
i never put it on a scale though.

[Jetleaf]

"How heavy is to heavy" I suppose if it won't lift off it's time for a diet. That being said both of my birds are biscuit eat'n beeotches so they aren't light weights. Just weighed both with Outrage 800 packs and my SD bird is 311 grams and her sister with the belt 326 :wow2:grams with fiberglass canopy. The same birds without canopies or batteries, 249 and 248.5 respectively. They both fly just fine.

[piper]

Mine with the Outrage 800 pack is 284 grams.

[Gr4yb3ard]

I went nuts on my first build to keep the weight down.

207grams! w/o battery, of course.

To be honest, I can't see a *bunch* of difference between a 207 and a 283gr Gaui-200!

I think it was over-powered from the get-go...

Gr4

[MonsterMaxx]

I redid everything today and ended up at 312g RTF. That's with a 90gram 3s1p 1000mah pack.

Got the balance perfect, front to back and side to side.

Now if I could just figure out why it hovers tilted over about 5-10 deg I'd be all done.

[Jetleaf]

All helis do that. Something about torque acting upon a spinning shaft.

[psindrup]

I redid everything today and ended up at 312g RTF. That's with a 90gram 3s1p 1000mah pack.

Got the balance perfect, front to back and side to side.

Now if I could just figure out why it hovers tilted over about 5-10 deg I'd be all done.


:Pics

Peter

[MonsterMaxx]

The battery pack is offset to the left to get it to balance. I don't know why, the reason isn't obvious, but is necessary to get the heli to balance properly. Might be the tail rotor assy. Just happened to work out that the bundle of gyro wires fits there (I didn't have the heart to cut the wires on a $220 gyro.)
Oh, and I'll probably rework the rx holder, not crazy about my first attempt - but it got it in the right place.

One nice thing about this battery location is that unlike the slanted one (my first attempt) it allows for very easy adjustments of balance for different battery packs.

The heatsink on the esc is a GPU memory chip cooler.

The gyro is not sitting quite flat, I'd pulled it up a few times getting things where they needed to be and I think the double sided foam tape needs to be replaced. This will be done before final flights.

You can just barely see the lipo battery monitor in the last picture, it is not included in the AUW 312g and adds 2g. I'll be using it until I get a 'feel' for how this pack's runtime.

I really wish there was a smaller pinion as it's got a lot of headspeed. I think more than is necessary and I could get more runtime with a smaller pinion. That or maybe rewind the motor for this voltage.

The 'tilted over' is not normal. My Rex hovers flat as can be. Also I can see this again when doing a setup on the head, set the swash, flybar and blades flat, rotate it 180deg and it changes to about 5-10deg of tilt. Something in the upper linkage is not right and I have to dig into it again. No time now...later.

http://www.unlimitedengineering.com/gallery/files/1/DSC03415Custom.JPG
http://www.unlimitedengineering.com/gallery/files/1/DSC03416Custom.JPG
http://www.unlimitedengineering.com/gallery/files/1/DSC03417Custom.JPG
http://www.unlimitedengineering.com/gallery/files/1/DSC03419Custom.JPG
http://www.unlimitedengineering.com/gallery/files/1/DSC03420Custom.JPG

[rotorhead58d]

no align stuff is allowed on 200's. i'm affraid you're going to have to remove those straps immediately.:YeaBaby:

[questionmark]

Nice pictures! it is nice to see other gaui's, it give you plenty of ideas!
I like to see your tail servo mount, please if that is possible (last pic does not show it fully clear), or any one else having mounted the logictec 3100 as I have the same as well as the pushrod...sorry for the spelling. I got the K&T mount, it is nice but already managed to destroy the screw thread...it does not screw strong on the boom... So like to see how other did. The pushrod I have is aligned with the boom but servo side it is either to low or to hight compared to the tail slider and don't like spacers and don't have them handy anyway and maybe there are just better ideas out there than just the K&T stuff from flying hobby, it is nice but just wonder how other are doing.

Cheers

[questionmark]

Hi again...

A separte question: I read I guess from Buzz that he does not use the boom support as well as others and that has not much consequence. But wonder what can be the cons of doing that regarding crash and vibration? any advantage other than saving a bit weight? well that is already a good one...

thanks

[MonsterMaxx]

no align stuff is allowed on 200's. i'm affraid you're going to have to remove those straps immediately.:YeaBaby:
tbtbtbtbtbtb

?, the servo mount is stock. I got the CNC one from flying-hobby and not only is the finish and workmanship quite poor, but fully clamped it's flops around on the shaft.
Bad Servo Mount (http://www.ueusa.net/Img/Heli/BadServoMount.MPG)
Flying hobby told me it works fine for them even after having sent the vid. Told me that I could send it back to them for inspection, which'll cost more in freight than the part is worth.
I tried glueing some thin sandpaper on one half and this worked...until the screw stripped out.
About what you'd expect from recycled chinese beer can material. Avoid this part.
The stock plastic mounts work just fine. They may not have the bling, but they function.

As to pulling the tail supports off, I think this is a bad idea. First off, just removing the struts won't save that much weight, they really weigh nothing. I think that once I get it flying I'll find that it needs more horizontal stabilizer. Removing that entirely would be a mistake. Also, running 3s1p has a ton of speed, any vibration will be magnified at these speeds and removing the struts could amplify the harmonics.
I'd sooner cut the excess gyro wire out to save weight. In fact, I think I'm going to ask Spartan how much it would cost to put a new gyro wire in the gyro if I ever decided to use it on something else. If it's not expensive I'll go ahead and chop it out.

[Jetleaf]

The "tilted over" is normal and it is called translating tendency or drift phenomenon. While less noticeable on some helis, they are all governed by the same aerodynamics and laws of physics.

[Buzzkill]

The horizontal stabilizer does absolutely nothing on a RC heli except change the looks. As far as the boom supports, this has been hashed over and over in other forums for other helis. Personaly, I take mine off. Hasn't caused any issues with several helis including 450 class helis. Mine vibrate very very little (unless somethings is out of balance or bent) so I haven't noticed any decrease in performance or otherwise.

I may be wrong but I'll never admit it. :nanabobo

[questionmark]

thanks all. Agree that K&T servo mount is desapointing, Iwasn't forcing much but got the screw thread broken in a day....

[MonsterMaxx]

3S1P on the shaft drive version w/o gearing down maybe not so good.

Just got it flying...nicely... and it bent the tail shaft in the air. Didn't hit it on anything. This in turn blew the tail drive shaft 203223

Surprisingly the crown gear didn't blow. 'Course, the thing is such a POS that you can only put the screws in it once before it's oblonged and won't spin straight again. Replaced the crown too.

And of course the tail block is badly designed so half the screws are stripped out. Hey Gaui, it's 1.5x the screw diameter for threads, NOT .5x or .75x.
How about eliminating the stupid spacers and making the block big enough that there's some thread back there? You had the material there and hacked it off. Time for a program change!

I think I may be converting to belt, not so much by choice or because I'm giving up on shaft drive, but because NO ONE has any shaft drive parts.
Ugh.

I have one more 203223 shaft and then I have to go belt.

[t-driver]

...
...
I really wish there was a smaller pinion as it's got a lot of headspeed. I think more than is necessary and I could get more runtime with a smaller pinion. That or maybe rewind the motor for this voltage.
...
.....


there are tons of pinions out there, i personally fly a 12T but on belt though.
you can use a 12T or else as well, even with the shaft tail,
all you have to do is cut (dremel) the double gear in 2 pieces and glue with that green stuff
the shaft gear together with a pinion of your choice to the motors shaft.
it is not a big deal.

[Jetleaf]

Hey Monster what kind of headspeed do you think you had on 3? I'll bet it was just insane.

[Gr4yb3ard]

Arrrr...

MonsterMaxx, I waited on the SD, sorta glad I did, but I am working on finding a replacement (off the shelf 3rd party) gearset. I'll get the SD kit soon and start playing, but mostly 'cause I need the shaft and gear dimensions.

....hmm, reason to buy another 200? *YES*...

FWIW I fly a 95gram 1320ma 3s FP in my belt model all the time. Works great for sport flying at least! As I mentioned previously, I really can't feel the difference in weight, and <I'm> the weight freak!

Now this is 3s, and we've already noted that I'm retracting my 3s recommendation until I get some time to test some stuff.

StoatnChips is helping me with this, we should have some solid work done in a few weeks.

For now, I run hot batts and hot esc, but I've never hurt a part. However, I hold short of recommending you run 138d F on an ESC or battery like I do.

Jetleaf, I've got my tach in, I'll get the 3s headspeed this weekend and forward to you guys...

We got lots of neat technical stuff coming, hang in there!

If you got interested in Helista, good. But, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Gr4yb3ard
"... Wolverine Drivers ROCK!!!..."
"... So fire the Freaking cannon, Gunney, about now would be good... "

[MonsterMaxx]

I don't have a tach...yet, but yea, it was high. The tailshaft is made from mild steel and simply bent under the RPMs.

Good news is that when I ordered the 3s packs from hobbycity I also got a couple 2s 1300s. Dimension wise they are the same cells as the ones in the 3s pack, but they are heavier so the 3s is 88grams and the 2s is 72 grams.

I really like how I've changed the battery location, makes for rebalancing the heli much easier.

So since this is my last set of shaftdrive parts I decided to back off to 2s. Balanced it and flew.
RTF weight is 302grams.

8 minute hover. Came down w/ battery, esc and motor cool as could be.

Kinda flys like a temperamental 450 rex with ADD. It still flys a little tilted over, but it's much better than it was before I spent the afternoon redoing all the linkage.

I really need to get this tail sorted out, the mechanism on here now sucks, stripped screws and the peanut butter metal they use in the tail shaft isn't worth squat, particularly at higher RPMs. I'd still like to give 3s another run with some smaller pinions, but I think maybe it's not the hot setup for this - even when just on BEC (no motor spinning) the speed control is getting hot and smaller pinions is not good for gear teeth (will make the crown problem even worse.) Might could rewind the motor special for 3s and keep the pinions on there...but chances are I'll scrounge up one of the new one piece microheli tails somewhere and convert over to belt and say goodbye to the shaft drive tail.

[Ecklund1]

How is it your servo flanges are mounted on the inside of the frame? That seems correct! I tried to mount mine like that because the servos are situated perfectly, but the links don't line up.
I've seen pics of them both inside and outside using HS-45HB's. What gives?

[MonsterMaxx]

I just did it that way and things lined up pretty good. I did turn the front balls on the swash around to aid a little, but it was pretty close to begin with. Note the linkage is on the inside of the arms. They aren't 'perfectly' vertical, but are pretty close.

I still have to paint the canopy and want to redo the rx mount, and I'd still like to spend some more time on the head setup, but otherwise, it's RTF

[Jetleaf]

I mounted mine with flanges on the outside because the linkage lined up best that way for me. It looks like you should mount the servos with the flanges on the inside because it centers the servo in the frame and it will be equally supported on both sides of the frame. The Spektrum servos are the same way. If you mount either servo on the outside, the bottom of the servo barely penetrates the frame on the opposite side. Your cg is affected also.