Paddles are moving in giving fast collective

[tempest]

Hey Guys

I have set up all the servos etc on my Tempest. Here is my problem: Not easy to explain :glasses: .

When i have -9 pitch and give slowly collective to +9 the paddles don't move but when i give the collective really fast from -9 to +9 the paddles are moving. Looks like a servo is a bit slower than the others. From -9 to +9 the paddles smack quick up and go to 0. From +9 to -9 the paddles smack quick down and go to 0 again.

The Servo doesn't look like its broken. What can that be :dontknow ?

Andrew

[Mille aka Fredrik]

If you don't notice this in the air, just go fly.

Maybe the resolution of the servo isn't the best.

[tempest]

S9252 <----- should be good

Well i am flying still with FM :oops: But i have ordered the FDP 149 DP PCM. Do you use Lithium batterys? My battery is just nicd. Could it be the battery or the receiver? FM is really weak.

Andrew

[WayneBrown]

It's simple physics, there has to be enough energy used to overcome inherent drag in all the links to make it move. Rapid movement will reduce friction by the nature of keeping everything moving versus the start and stops of slow movement.
( Servo steps or resolution steps) The stops create the 'object at rest' phenomenon allowing the links to exercise their drag to the movement and make it appear the paddles aren't turning.
If you can rotate the head by hand and see the paddles move, you are fine.
If the machine flies good, you are fine.
If it really causes you grief, buy a link resizing tool and go over the links, lube all the shafts, bearings, pins, and swashplate.
FM resolution is almost as high as PCM ( or the same I forget) but your problem is not or should not be a problem with the radio gear, unless your voltage/ampere capacity is insufficient. ( possible, but less likely)
I have Duralites now, but used to fly NiCD's without issue.

[tempest]

Thanks for your help

I will fly the heli in January (still waiting for the 690s Radix Blades) and if there will be problems i will reply.

Andrew

[DavidH]

9252's are great servos. But sometimes there is one that will not transit at the same speed as the others. Also there may be one servo that is not traveling as far as the others.
PPM and PCM are the same signal. The difference being PCM is a coded signal, where PPM is a proportional signal. With all digital servos your going to need a battery that will supply enough current at high demand. Some of the smaller nicads will work, but then you will only get 1 or 2 flights from them safely before recharging.

David

[ChrisLaFollette]

I had a question about interaction so I asked a buddy of mine and he told me this.

Straight from Eric Larson:

If you move the swash up and down fast from full neg to full positive in idle up you should see the Pit and Ail servo's move almost perfectly the same. If they do not one of the servo's may be bad or it may be a setup issue. The elevator will lag when moved fast. That is a radio issue and can not be fixed except with a 14MZ. That is assuming you have Futaba gear. If you have other (JR, or other) the servo's may lead and lag different during fast movements but that is due to the radio being slow, not the servo's.

[tempest]

mhh

so i don't know what the problem is. The Swash stays really still in full pitch. It is only the paddles. The Bearings etc are a little hard to move. And the bell hiller mixer is out of plastic. Could that cause the problem. My Servos are not perfect to 0 with the plastic plates. the elevator needs 2.5

Andrew

[DavidH]

Is this your first eCCPM heli to set up? I would suggest getting some experienced help to look over the heli before you fly it.

If your servo linkage is not set up perfect that is causing the problems. You stated above that your servos are not 0. I guess your meaning they are NOT 90 degs like they should be. Yes the rear servo on cyclic on Tempest should have 2.5 deg offset on the linkage.

David

[tempest]

Yes :oops:

It is my 1st eccpm heli. But how can i set up my Servo linkage perfect? it is not 90 degs. But i cant set the plastic wheels because it is something between the 90 degs. How the hell can i set the wheels to 90 degs. I can set them more then 90 or less than 90. MHH Really difficult stuff :arggg: . My Raptor was a really easy model to set.

Andrew

[DavidH]

I would suggest getting a knowledgable pilot to help you set it. I see your in Switzerland. If Andi G is close to you. You should contact him and get some help. He is a really knowledgable pilot.



David

[tempest]

Who is Andi G? i live near Schwarzenburg.

Andrew

[Rada70]

Try this web site . It might help you setting up the eccpm.
http://www.moretraction.com/helis/setup%20videos.htm

[Zilly]

With Futaba servos the servo wheels ar designed such that if you are not at90degrees then move the wheel around to the nest section and try again, there is a line of numbers around the centre of the servo to help this.

z

[WayneBrown]

If you just can't get any position to be 90 degrees, just drill a hole for the ballstud at 90 degrees, just keep the hole on the raised ring on the wheel and no worries.

[tempest]

Ok

I will get new wheels and try to set the 90 degs.

Rada70. The problem is not the Swash or pitch etc. Only the Servos that i cant get to 90 degs.

Andrew

[DavidH]

If your using the wheels that came with the 9252's. The large 45MM diameter wheels with the holes spaced around the perimeter at 19.5mm. What is so difficult about getting the servo linkage set at 90 degs? You just rotate the servo wheel on the spline of the servo till the hole lines up in the correct position for 90 degs. Or the other option as Lamebird mentioned. You take the plastic setup guide that comes in the kit and just drill the hole where it needs to be in the wheel by using the plastic guide. I am fairly sure it explains how to do this in the instructions. I have an instruction manual from the first kits and it explains how to line up the servo wheels in it.

David

[tempest]

Ok i have got the 90 degs. Put new wheels on and they where not really at 90 degs. I just trimmed them a bit with SUB Trim. They are perfect now. But the paddles are still moving. And i think the problem is that damn Crap plastic thing between the swash and the head. It is so hard to move. Would it be better to get an metal version?

Andrew

[DavidH]

Ok i have got the 90 degs. Put new wheels on and they where not really at 90 degs. I just trimmed them a bit with SUB Trim.

I don't understand why you can't get the linkage 90 degs like it is suppose to be without using subtrim.
Do you realize that the servo wheels have splines? You can keep taking them off and turning them till you get the hole in the wheel lined up exactly where it needs to be. You do not need to use subtrim.
Do you have the clear plastic servo wheel guide that comes in the kit?
Even if you can't get the holes in the wheels to line up perfect. Then you use the guide and drill the hole in the wheel exactly where it needs to be. It is very simple.
The heli is not going to fly correctly unless it is set up correctly.
The washout base will wear in and slide up and down nicely on the mainshaft. Did you clean the mainshaft good before installing it to get the protective coating off?
The protective coating will cause the washout not to slide smoothly.

David

[tempest]

Maybe my Pitch curve is causing that at middle stick position the servos are not at 90 degs. but they are without SUB trim really close now. No i don't have a plastic servo wheel guide. I could post some pics of the servos and swash.


yes i did Polish the mainshaft. Do i need to Polish the washout as well?

Andrew

[tempest]

WOOOW

I cant believe it!! I have got the 90 degs without SUB Trim.
WOOOOW Party :banana :cheers = :puke lol

But why are the paddles still moving? Washout? :dontknow

Andrew

[Al Austria]

With the present technology, you'll never be able to completely eliminate the interaction you're describing in an eCCPM machine. I'd say fly it and see if you can feel any strange flying behaviors. If not, don't worry about it.

And i think the problem is that damn Crap plastic thing between the swash and the head. It is so hard to move. Would it be better to get an metal version?

I believe you are talking about the washout base. As I recall, MA used to include a metal base which over time would develop slop. The plastic version was supposed to fix it. Just do what you gotta to free that sucker up.

[tempest]

Just do what you gotta to free that sucker up.[/quote]

And if i crash :lol:

Well i cant fly at the moment (still waiting for the 690s Radix blades :arggg: ) And here in Switzerland we have a lot of snow and the temp is about -4! My hands would fall of with this temp :wow2: . So i need to wait till spring :DOH . I will post my 1st flight movie for sure :roll: .

Andrew

[X]

My Tempest is doing the samething. I just notice that about 2 week ago. I am still can not solve the problem. I got it in the air but seem flying ok to me.
x

[tempest]

mhhh

How much degs are your Paddles moving?

So if i can remove the problem i will post it here.

Andrew