New head dampeners

[00boto]

"HUH" what? What part did you not get? In a previous post by Rodney, he claims the pilot was flying smoothly through a snake. If that is the case, the odds of a boom strike during smooth flight are slim. This leaves other options such as worn out links or excessive swash travel causing a link to pop....

Matt

[misskimo]

:glasses:

[Bert Kammerer]

That's exactly why I said that I were to remain objective. I know that the boom strike took place after a collective transition from positive to negative, but way after the transition itself, almost at halfway down a snake semi-circle. I am just looking forward to MA running the necessary tests in order to get their final assessment.

[00boto]

Bert,

Now you are getting somewhere. If the machine did not boom strike right at the moment of collective/cyclic transition but further after the transition, doesn't it seem logical that it was a link popping off? Can you tell me exactly what the crash looked like and the exact sequence of events before and after the crash?

- Did the boomstrike break the blades and the tailboom upon strike in the air?
- Did the pilot have time to hit throttle hold after the boomstrike occured or did the machine hit the ground under power?
- Did the machine seem to beat itself up in the air shortly after the boomstrike?
- Was the head bogged at all during or after the transition?

Thanks!

Matt

[ManuelCJr1]

I was looking at the getting the new one piece dampeners but i think i'll get the o rings. For the 90 o-rings what shims are you using on the head? I have a fury extreme.

[Bert Kammerer]

Matt,

Everything happened so quickly that I can't recall specifically the sequence of events. However, your questions help me refresh memory :)

- Did the boomstrike break the blades and the tailboom upon strike in the air?
Yes, the boom and blades broke in the air.

- Did the pilot have time to hit throttle hold after the boomstrike occured or did the machine hit the ground under power?
I am "throttle hold happy", so yes I hit the hold within a split second after I felt what happened. The heli in essence hit the ground by the force of its own inertial descent and not with power. The main & crown gears didn't even strip, that tells me (after seeing the flybar tangled up in the head) that I hit the hold as soon as it happened.

- Did the machine seem to beat itself up in the air shortly after the boomstrike?
Yes, the machine sort of "exploded" after the boom strike.

- Was the head bogged at all during or after the transition?
Hard to remember, I don't think so. Normal "load" --that is, a small slow down as usual, but not a real bog.

[DavidH]

You know these things are RC Helicopters. I have been flying them since 1991. I can tell you in all that time, crashes have happened that I couldn't explain. Crashes I thought that should never happened just happened. And the bad thing about a crash like that is 95% of the time with the wreckage and investigating it there is no way to tell what happened. I always investigate any crash I have had that is unexplainable to me and try to find out what caused it. I have not been successful in finding out the cause in most cases. Just like I was told when I was learning to fly Helis. The only way you can expect a crash is if you leave the heli on the workbench at home. We fly them , they are going to crash. They crash we are going to repair them. That is about as simple as it gets.

David

[RTHanley]

i thought if you boom strike in the air it does not break the blades unless you lose a link is what makes the blades break in the air did the blades break in the air or after they hit the ground

i bet you lost a link bert and not having a dampner problem

[00boto]

RTHanley...Correct, this is exactly where I was going with my questioning. With the blades breaking mid-air, the machine seamingly beating itself up as it happened, the cause of this crash is most likely a link popping off. After you fix everything, make sure you check your head linkages for binding.

Bert,
Thanks for being honest, I'm sure your exceptional pilot skills saved the machine from a much worse fate had it hit under power.

Matt

[misskimo]

:glasses:

[00boto]

A simple check of the head for binding before flight may have prevented this from happening. I'm not saying that a link popping off is 100% the cause of the crash but what I do want people to realize is that from the information presented about the flight, there is evidence to sway this argument away from a 100% failure due to faulty head dampers. If you decide to run these dampers, and I highly recommend that you do because they ROCK, check your head once in a while as you normally would and pay attention to inflight characteristics. Just like a car or any high performance machine, a lot of times they will tell you something is wrong, you just have to listen.

Matt

[freezin eskimo]

Im Done!

[DavidH]

The Dampeners Were Suppossed to be The Newest Batch, Pilots Shouldnt Have To Replace Them After Every 1-3 Flights just to Get Consistency, The Only Pilots I Know That Replace That Often Are The FAI Contest Pilots.


Wow, I am an FAI contest pilot. I have an original set of the one piece dampeners in a rotor head on a Tempest. I have not replaced the dampeners, they have about 30 flights on them. The sets I have were the first batch right when they were released for sale back in September.
Where did you get the information that FAI pilots change dampeners every 1-3 flights?

David

[00boto]

I'm wondering the same thing David, I've had the same sets in my helicopters for months now with zero issues.

Matt

[EricLarson]

Karl,

Who are the other pilots who are having problems? By name please so I can contact them directly.

I need to talk with them directly as right now even after all of these posts and all of the phone calls I have made and Matt has made we have not found any bad dampeners. Tim also has not had anyone tell him of any bad dampeners and none have been sent back to the shop.

Tim did not received the dampeners back from Bobby. Since this happened a week ago I would have thought they would be there by now.

Heck yes I am a Min Air factory pilot, but that sure does not mean I will ever recommend anything there is a problem with. Everyone that knows me knows I am a honest guy and it is sure not worth it to me to try "cover something up" as you inferred. Those dampeners where the result of a LOT of testing and research and they are one of the main reasons the new head setup flies so well. They are much better than any of the oring combinations we had used in the past which is the reason I have been flying them all year and the reason they where put into production. Pilot have the input at MA for new parts and directly drive new parts development, testing, and which ones go to production based on how they improve the product.

A final thought:

From my experience in the last 13 years of flying 3D I will also say that the dampeners have very little to do with boom strikes. (It would take me 30 min of talking to explain all of the possible causes) The dampeners have a lot to do with how the head flies, as that is why they are there. A boom strike can happen for the reasons I listed above, but is rarely caused by dampeners. This is shown very easily. Did we have a lot of boom strikes with the soft 70 stock duro orings that where always shipped in the Fury kits from day 1 or even back with the previous gen of MA models? Also do you see the FAI models boom striking due to the soft dampening they run? The dampeners "may" help prevent a boom strike, but the reason for them is to make the head fly right. In fact if you build a set of solid dampeners I will guarantee you I can boom strike the machine if I try...... Since I have already done that in the past it is with experience I can say that.

Anyway, unless the dampeners are received back and we can see there was a problem I would have to agree that a mechanical failure seems to be the most obvious cause from the info Bert gave us. That observation is based on the facts given by Bert and also that I have not seen any problems with the dampeners yet.

[RTHanley]

who just deleted my post?

[WillJames]

Sorry Ralph. We just switched back to the primary from our backup server we have been running since about 3AM. Please repost or I can try to merge it from the backup server before it gets overwritten by the rsync. I try to do this kind of stuff at about 3AM, but this time it was unavoidable.

[RTHanley]

it is ok will, just dont do it again haha

what i said was how come bert has not returned the dampners that suposidly cause this to happen when hs is in orlando and less than 2 hours from miniature aircraft. it looks suspecious to me to put everybody threw such a drawn out mess and then not return the dampners

[Rodney]

Ok I know my thought on this dont mean shit to yall M/A people but Im goin to type it anyway. I lost a link in flight at Ircha SE if yall that were there remember.
My machine then began to make a really loud blade noise, I think most call it a flutter. I call it trying to beat the air in to submission but just cant do it.
I was able to save the machine and land it with only one blade connected to the swash. Now when Bobby's machine, at the hands of Bert, came apart there was no blade flutter sound at all. So you tell me did the link come off, blade grip break in flight, doesnt sound like that happened to me.

[RTHanley]

ok rodney, that is a good point. i see why bert has not sent it back now to because it is bobbys heli

sorry every body for being like this but it does make me wonder

[freezin eskimo]

Im Done!

[RTHanley]

whats with all the cloke and dagger karl. it was either the dampners or not

also, i am not a ma guy. i had one of the bent frames years ago and did not like becaus it was to hard for me to work on it. i fly a century and i am happy with it

[freezin eskimo]

im Done!

[RTHanley]

i dont see how you can be sure karl

i am not going to argue any more about this but i continue to wonder why the parts have not been returned yet

[misskimo]

:glasses: