I need brushless info!!!!!!!!

[concretejjoe1]

Im tired of buying E-Flight stock motors and having them burn out so fast, they get so hot and fail when you are flying, you crash and have to replace alot of parts. Do the brushless motors run cooler then the stock motors?? Do they last longer then the stock motors? I am just doing foward flight, nose in, everything except inverted. Any info would be a big help. Thanks in advance Joe New Jersey

[Dumb Thumbs]

The brushless main (the setup sold by E-Flight) on my CP Pro typically will get up to 140 deg after a 7 min flight in hot weather, but dosn't show any signs of burnout. I just let it cool for about 10 minutes and I'm off again.
The Feigao brushless tail motor I installed doesn't really get too hot at all.
Some things to conconsider about converting to brushless...
1- Should upgrade both motors, or none at all. I found out quick after I installed a brushless main, that the stock tail motor couldn't hold the tail.
2-There is quite a bit of custum rewireing to be done to make it work right. I ditched the stock 3 in 1, and now have two ESC's to replace it.
3-A programmable radio & good gyro is also a good idea if you really want to get the most out of the upgrade. I already had a Dx7 Tx, so getting a new Rx didn't break the bank.
There are many posts about this subject, I'd so some research before getting into it, could get very expensive.

[concretejjoe1]

Thanks Dumb Thumbs, Maybe I will just wait to buy a T Rex 450 and a dx7.

[skunkworx]

The DX7: yes, Trex: No! You'll end up spending waaaay too much on the 450. If you want some good advice on how to set one up, talk to, or PM my buddy Buildem336. He can fly circles around just about any Trex pilot and the only upgrades he's needed were the brushless motors, ESC's, metal swashplate and a 401 gyro. You can set up a CP Pro just as well as any Trex 450 at less than the cost of a kit for the 450. Here's a video of him flying:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbCLylSm-OI

[nitrohog]

That is the first time I have ever read of someone actually liking the CP over a Trex. Initial cost of a trex can get a little pricey, but in the end IMHO it is well worth it. I still fly my mostly stock CPP but I really don't see the potential in a plastic heli with an ETRM. I ran up against the uprade the CP VS Trex debate myself and in the end Im VERY happy with my 450SE V2.

[Gary JP4]

I don't fly my CP anymore. It is not worth it IMO. The Trex is worth the time and effort as you get something out of it. Trying to keep a CP flying it like:arggg:. Going all brushless on the CP would help but it is not worth putting that money into it. Even if you put all the mods on it it with aftermarket stuff and brought the quality and tolerances up to a Trex it is still just too small IMO.

If you have a CP and a Trex and you keep the CP flying for very long it is because you just like keeping the CP flying. Maybe it hold a soft sport next to your hart or nostalgia because you started with it.

Trex Pros: Design, the way it flies, ease of mmmaintenanceost of maintenance, crash cost, looks, etc, etc
Trex Cons: Initial cost

CP Pros: Initial cost
CP Cons: Design, the way it flies, ease of mmamaintenancest of maintenance, crash cost, looks, etc, etc

When I got the CP I thought it was nice. When I got the Trex I knew it was a lot nicer. When I spooled it up the first time I decided the CP was junk

[skunkworx]

If you have a CP and a Trex and you keep the CP flying for very long it is because you just like keeping the CP flying. Maybe it hold a soft sport next to your hart or nostalgia because you started with it.

Trex Pros: Design, the way it flies, ease of mmmaintenanceost of maintenance, crash cost, looks, etc, etc
Trex Cons: Initial cost

CP Pros: Initial cost
CP Cons: Design, the way it flies, ease of mmamaintenancest of maintenance, crash cost, looks, etc, etc

Methinks you have it all backwards about the cost and the way it flies (and also you didn't bother to watch the video of Manual flying his BCPP). Collectively he's only been flying for a year and a half, but can fly the CP Pro just as well if not better than the Trex because he actually took the liberty to put in as much care on the setup as most guys do on their Trex's. These helis fly perfectly, it's the lousy pilots/mechanics working on them that give them a bad name.
First off, It's lighter, so in turn it requires smaller-less costly batteries, parts are fewer in count (also meaning easier to repair/replace parts) and the parts are equal in price if not much cheaper than the Rex. Less total mass=less damage when she meets good 'ol Terra Firma. No need for metal or 'upgrded' parts other than the swash plate and a full brushless main and tail motor (will cost you less than $125). It flies perfectly with the stock radio and it only needs a good gyro beyond all the rest of that. OTD price of less than $300 bucks if you were to buy a used airframe and add the upgrades, so it definately beats the pants off the Rex in the cost AND repair department.

Of course this is a much debated topic. The problem with most people is that they don't bother to put the same amount of respect, time, effort and care into actually getting the CPP's going to begin with.They just expect to get it, plug it in and be flying like Krause or the Szabos (which is the worst asumption anyone can make in this hobby).

Just some FYI Gary (and this is not in any way a personal attack); my first heli was the, not the BCPP, so I don't have any ideas like what you were thinking. I do like the Trex, but I wish I could've saved the extra dough wasted on the Rex and all it's parts-and gotten the BCPP sooner. Also the only reason why I don't want to get rid of my Trex is that I've had to dump so much money into it that it would be a waste to get rid of it now. I can't even re-sell it for half of what I paid for it.
The only real downside to the BCP's are that they don't get as much support and not many people have the patience or the reasoning to sit down and get one flying. People always ask what's the best starter heli and it seems like no-one can resist blabbing about the Trex without any knowledge of anything else. I just don't think that it's a good idea to push other people past the CP's because of someoe's own personal failures with them. As demonstrated in the video, they fly just as amazingly as the Trex's at 1/4-1/3 the cost. All they need is someone willing to actually try.

[Gary JP4]

First, I started with a Honey Bee CP2. Not the BCP Pro which wasn't out then. Much like a blade CP pro though and most parts are interchangeable. The Blade had to catch up and copy the HBCP2 Bell Hiller head and later offer it packaged with a LiPo and symmetrical blades as the Pro. The HBCP2 came with a lipo, symmetrical blades, bell Hillier mixing, etc. before the Pro was available. I upgraded servos, put fuses on the motors, replaced most parts with BCP plastic parts as I broke them and that was a often. I decided not to invest in brushless main and tail because I didn't think the platform was worthy in precision, quality, design, or size. The Blade CP is either a PITA or a waste of money to make into something that it is not. IF you are going to fly a BCP it definetly needs the brushless conversion front and back because the little brushed moters don't last very long.

Methinks you have it all backwards about the cost and the way it flies:shock:

I don't think so. You are one of the few that does.

(and also you didn't bother to watch the video of Manual flying his BCPP).

Why do you say that? I have seen many other good videos of BCP's too. I watched the video. It is impressive flying. More of a novelty that someone can get one set up that well and fly a BCP that well. More power to ya or him.:Bang

Collectively he's only been flying for a year and a half, but can fly the CP Pro just as well if not better than the Trex because he actually took the liberty to put in as much care on the setup as most guys do on their Trex's.

The Trex has much tighter tolerances, is more precision, and is a higher quality product in general. As to the statement "can fly the CP Pro just as well if not better than the Trex because he actually took the liberty to put in as much care on the setup as most guys do on their Trex's". Yes, it would take a lot more care, time, mones, and you need lots of mods to bring the BCP up to the level of even the plastic Trex and then there are still more weaknesses in the BCP.

These helis fly perfectly, it's the lousy pilots/mechanics working on them that give them a bad name.:wow2:

It will make a good mechanic out of you because you will be working on it all the time and researching what mod you are going to do next. If you start with the brushed motors on it, keep you soldering iron plugged in all the time for changing motors. It will improve your soldering skills I am sure. They are junk compared to a Trex. If you got a BCP flying anywhere close to a Trex you are not only a good pilot/mechanic but also put a bunch of mods and ($) into the BCP. I would be impressed with your dedication but question your logic. Why? At least you can then take the skills you have learned and put them into something worthy of your expertize. A Trex or some other bigger heli.

I don't know if it will make a good pilot out of you but it is harder to fly, sloppier without a lot of mods, and too little to see well.

First off, It's lighter, so in turn it requires smaller-less costly batteries,

Agreed. I would highly recommend getting an good aftermarket computer charger. Get one big enough to handle the batteries you will use in a Trex when you give up on the BCP so you won't have wasted your money.:lol:

parts are fewer in count (also meaning easier to repair/replace parts) and the parts are equal in price if not much cheaper than the Rex.

Agreed, but they break easier on the CP and it is harder to fly so you crash more at first. Look at the landing at the end of the video. The Trex is easier to work on. After a while I flet like the BCP wasn't worth working on and I was wasting my time on junk.

Also, you don't have to replace as many parts in the average crash on a Trex. They don't break. The CP breaks landing gear parts (all of them), tail boom, frame parts, not to mention all the parts in the head on minor crashes and they are harder to replace.

Less total mass=less damage when she meets good 'ol Terra Firma.

Wrong, more damage on a BCP in in by experience because the parts are so light (read cheap).

No need for metal or 'upgrded' parts other than the swash plate and a full brushless main and tail motor (will cost you less than $125).

the other parts that you don't replace with metal are the ones that break on the CP and not on a Trex in a crash.

It flies perfectly with the stock radio and it only needs a good gyro beyond all the rest of that.

The radio is no good for anything else, curves are preset and you can't adjust anything. Doesn't allow you to optimize anything especially with brushless motor changes, you are stuck with curves set for weak brushed motors.

You need to replace the S-75 servos too. They suck. They don't center well, and they quit for no reason.

OTD price of less than $300 bucks if you were to buy a used airframe and add the upgrades, so it definately beats the pants off the Rex in the cost AND repair department.

Oh, so now I have to buy a used airframe to compete with a Trex in cost? :shock:Buy a used Trex then.:thumbup:

Of course this is a much debated topic. The problem with most people is that they don't bother to put the same amount of respect, time, effort and care into actually getting the CPP's going to begin with.They just expect to get it, plug it in and be flying like Krause or the Szabos (which is the worst asumption anyone can make in this hobby).

Well, they do market it under the expectation that it will fly right out the door. It will, kind of, but not like the Szabos or your buddy there. I enjoyed mine but in retrospect wish I had put the time and money into a Trex, or bigger heli, where the return is greater. The BCP is not a bad way to start because you can't know how far you will go when you start. If you knew you would go on I would start with something better.

Just some FYI Gary (and this is not in any way a personal attack);
No offence taken.
my first heli was the, not the BCPP, so I don't have any ideas like what you were thinking.
I am not sure what you are saying here.

I do like the Trex, but I wish I could've saved the extra dough wasted on the Rex and all it's parts-and gotten the BCPP sooner.

I guess your were saying in the previous sentences that you got the Trex first and then the BCP. I think you got that backwards on the dough wasted. It is wasted on a BCP. You are the only one I have ever heard of that went this route and felt that way. The BCP wasn't designed to be a Trex. If you are try to make a BCP do what a Trex does with the precision of a Trex it is like :arggg:.

Also the only reason why I don't want to get rid of my Trex is that I've had to dump so much money into it that it would be a waste to get rid of it now. I can't even re-sell it for half of what I paid for it.

I usually don't put any money into my Trex unless I crash. I am sorry you feel that way but I think it is rare to get 50% of the original cost out of any model purchase on resale unless you bought it used to start with. So you like your BCP better? That is strange too. Some folks go around trying to justify why they bought a BCP or still keep it flying but that is a first I think.

The only real downside to the BCP's are that they don't get as much support and not many people have the patience or the reasoning to sit down and get one flying.

I will give you that is takes patience and reasoning. More then a Trex IMO. It also takes money and I don't think it is worth spending it on BCP.

People always ask what's the best starter heli and it seems like no-one can resist blabbing about the Trex without any knowledge of anything else. I just don't think that it's a good idea to push other people past the CP's because of someoe's own personal failures with them. As demonstrated in the video, they fly just as amazingly as the Trex's at 1/4-1/3 the cost. All they need is someone willing to actually try.

The reason I responded to your earlier post is I think you might be misleading folks just starting this hobby and considering what model to buy. It is obvious you are trying to justify why you like the BCP Pro even better then the Trex. You can't even compare them more-less say the BCP is better. I feel I wasted my money and time on the BCP to some extent (given how far I decided to go with it) and I would like to help others avoid that or at least make a educated decision. I do still have a soft spot for the Blade. It is not that bad and could get you started but I would never say it is better then a Trex. You can make a BCP fly well but I think it would be better to start with something higher quality. I stopped short of going brushless, metal swash, head, etc. I didn't think it was worth it. I agonized over the decision to spend a bunch more money on a Trex SE. As far as support I was one that asked Helifreak Admin to start the Blade forum. I guess I am a charter member. You can see from my earlier post that I was into the BCP. I already had a Trex SE V1 and came to Helifreak when RR was Freaking out and wanted to see something on the Blade here. After I got started with the Trex I dropped the Blade.

I like the BCP, it cost quite a bit less then a Trex SE. It is a lot easier to get up and flying then a Trex. I know everyone can't spend the money on a Trex SE. I would drop down to a plastic Trex before I went Blade though. It cost less then any Trex but you get what you pay for. I just think it is ridiculous to compare it to a Trex . A closer comparison would be the Blade 400 that is bigger, comes brushless, and has a real radio. I would still go with a Trex for some of the same reasons above though. I am not saying don't get a blade. I just don't think anyone can say it is better then the Trex and if you are going to get a Trex later skip the BCP. It depends on how serious you are going to be about helis.

Even if you spend the money and do all the mods it is still too small to see well.
Even the Trex is marginal in size for most. Bigger is better.

I love my Trex. :) I don't fly my Blade CP / HBCP2 anymore. Sorry.:dontknow
:cheers

[Gary JP4]

I was just thinking of one other important consideration when getting into the hobby. That is having someone around that can mentor you.

If I had someone as good as that guy in the video or as enthusiastic about a certain heli as you are about the Blade CP around that would help me get into the hobby, and assuming I saw that your were successful, I would go with the heli you, or they, recommended and were using. Even if another one was better. That factor is huge.

If I was going to get my help on a forum. I would go with the Trex.:cheers

[skunkworx]

If I had someone as good as that guy in the video or as enthusiastic about a certain heli as you are about the Blade CP around that would help me get into the hobby, and assuming I saw that your were successful, I would go with the heli you, or they, recommended and were using. Even if another one was better. That factor is huge. If I was going to get my help on a forum. I would go with the Trex.:cheers
Very well put Gary. It's always good to hear both sides of the story. As you can probably guess, I've argued this topic a few times. Most of the time people just try to off me without having a well informed opinion on the subject, and true; most people really don't give this heli (and many others like it) enough credit. My second helicopter I got was a Walkera 52. Now that's even tinier in comparison, but it flies like you wouldn't believe! Most of the time when it hits the dirt, you slap some new lades on it and toss it back in the air.
I can totally agree with the statement about local/forum support. Helis are a very daunting task if you are a newb, so having help does make a big difference. This lack of support is by far the largest reason why I think most people fail with the Blade CP's. I'm quite certain that if more people put some good effort into them, they would be well rewarded, not frustrated.
As I said before, it does take a bit more patience with them to get them flying correctly, however, most people lack the consistancy in their efforts and assume that these birds are simply junk without giving it a fair shot. Will the CP break? Hell yeah! By it's own nature, it isn't as 'solid' as a Rex because it's made out of a bunch of toothpicks and bound together with fuel tubing, but that doesn't make it any less deserving of top marks. This is also the beauty in the heli. It's so ridiculously simple that it's nearly fool-proof, BUT, you must also be willing to put in decent equipment on them if you truly want to go comparing it to a Trex. Add in 65HB/MG's, a 401 gyro, DX7 radio and you are out the door for a few more dollars, but still substantially less than the Trex. Also, the sub-par Blade stuff cannot be compared fairly because we all know it's not that good, but given the same electronics outfit, they would fly nearly the same, all you would need to to do is put in the work (wich is more of the debatable part)
As with many of the things in this hobby, I believe that we both simply have a healthy difference of opinions. I have no problem endorsing either heli as they are way more than sufficient fliers for any average Joe, but there is a distinctive cost advantage to getting it right with the Blade IMO. There is understandable misgivings between the two, but I think it's better to keep an open mind about things and this community seems very close-minded about everything.

One last point about the pricing of everything: The reason I mentioned getting a used airframe is that if you truly wanted to compare the two helis apples-to-apples (or at least as close to that as you can get with the two platforms!), you would dump most of the stuff on the Blade anyhow (just just the frame like on the Trex). Seeing you can get a used one for super cheap, you would pay less tha $100 for it and then put your money into other parts instead of buying the entire heli at retail and then tossing all the electronics except the RX. The most expensive aspect of the buildup would be getting a good radio (which conveniently would also control tha bigger heli later down the road that you mentioned), but you wouldn't necessarily need to get a DX6/7 anyways (it just makes for a cleaner look that way).

In light of the fact that Joe was orginally asking about upgrades for the BCP, I figured the info was pertinant, but take it as you wish. Happy flying whichever you decide to go with though!:cheers

[Gary JP4]

Very well then enough on the Trex (except for example) and back to the OP's original question.

concretejjoe1,

I think one thing Skunkworks and I could agree on is there is nothing quite like brushless. Not only for performance but reliability and the BCP desperately needs some of that IMO.

I think if you are going to make a BCP work including being dependable, and having good power then you need both motors brushless. If you go brushless on the main motor the tail will have to work harder and it is already a little weak and doesn't last very long. On the Trex I have had only one brushless motor (the Align 430L) for the past 2.5 years with no problems. It has been through dozens of crashes some very serious with broken CF frames and parts thrown for 25 yards from the chicken dance. Power from brushless motors is usually much more impressive too. I have never broken or bent any of the metal bling parts. So metal parts like the swash are nice, hold up better, and are more precision. That is all the stuff that is anodized blue. Of course other metal parts bend and brake like the main shaft, feathering shaft, etc. Also I have never had a problem with the brushless motor. Compare that with brushed motors on the Blade CP. This is the core of making it dependable.

I also agree that the DX7 is a great radio. I don't know how you would ever get a set of brushless motors and a HH gyro to work with the stock TX and RX, or 3 in 1. You need to be able to tweak throttle and pitch curves and have gyro gain control. I am sure Skunkworks and many of you know that better then me. I have never gone that route with a BCP.

[concretejjoe1]

Hey, How's it goin? Could you tell me all of the parts ;numbers and Hobby store where I can get a brushless tail setup, How does it work? Its for a cp pro Thanks in advance Joe from New Jersey

[WickedDragon]

LOL! The quest for the $2000 Blade continues! It's not really fair to call it E-flite anymore...My Blade doesn't look anything like what came out of the box! I can say without question that I have invested far more money into my Blade to get it to fly like I think it should than I have spent to do the same for my TREX (which is pretty much stock!).

For what it's worth, I like both my Blade and my REX, but given the same crash, the TREX will have far less damage and even with similar damage the TREX would still be less expensive to repair. :roll::bad

[skunkworx]

Hey, How's it goin? Could you tell me all of the parts ;numbers and Hobby store where I can get a brushless tail setup, How does it work? Its for a cp pro Thanks in advance Joe from New Jersey

Here you go Joe. All you need in one package! Talk to Scott (the owner) and he'll let you know if you'll need anything else to get it going. Also, you can now get a GY401 for pretty much dirt ($90 or less in the for sale section) so your setup should be fairly inexpensive.

http://www.centerstick.com/product_p/cs1295.htm

The way it works: Typically if you go B/L tail, you've already got a B/L main motor/ESC. With this setup, you can ditch the 3-in-1, add in mentioned gyro and it'll all run off the AR6000 RX. Really easy to set up and it'll fly like you would not believe. Lemme know if you have any other questions.

[zen]

I fly the BCPP and Trex 450SE. Love them both; the Blade's simplicity and responsiveness, the Trex's precision, smoothness, and power. I don't fly circles in the house with the Trex, though.... ;)

BTW the dual tail motor set up and rate gyro on the mixing board work pretty well for sport flying.

[The Steve-O]

I fly both my Blade Cp and T-Rex, I prefer the T-Rex for it's flying qualities, and my Blade because of it's resiliance (and i don't care as much if it crashes). If I crash it, I probably already have the parts to fix it and it's quite tough. I have had the tail rotor go out in flight, the Blade came down to a hard landing, with NO damage. The brushless main is a must for flight time/power, and the tail works good once upgraded with a new gyro/motor. I'm running the Eflite 370 4100kv motor and it has enough power for my style of flight.