Switching to Duralites What do I need?

[loewermx]

I want to switch to duralites but I am not sure what I am going to need. I saw the heli package but I need the charger to have the four ports. My machines all use digital servos, GV1's, GY601's What reg? What switch? What pack?

Scott

[DavidH]

Scott,
Here is the setup I have and use in my Tempests.

4000 mah flat packs

5.1 voltage regulator with safety switch

Duralite digital voltmeter ( New Futaba one will work also)

Duralite 3 +1 charger ( Has 3 receiver charging ports and 1 transmitter port) Charger is 12 volt input.

120 volt adapter for charger

The packs come in square ( 2X2) or flat configuration ( 4 cells side by side). With the Fury helis the flat pack works the best in my opinion.

I also have the 1300 mah Duralite transmitter battery for my 9Z.


David

[cdrking]

I too am considering switching to Duralites but am not convinced this is the way to go.

I am running a Fury Ex. with 9252s, GV-1, GY601. I am running a 2700mah NiMh right now. I recently did some flying and flew four fairly aggresive flights and "used" 905mah. I didn't check the voltage before and after but next time I will.

Why run Duralites when I can get a 4500mah NiMh battery for around $40?

If I go with Duralites should I get a flat or square pack?

Can I use a Triton charger on them?

Thanks, I didn't mean to hijack your thread Scott. Just want to learn more before spending more money.

Jeff

[DavidH]

Jeff,
Can I use a Triton charger on them?

Read this thread about the Triton charger

http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=986



If I go with Duralites should I get a flat or square pack?


With the Fury's the flat packs are easier to locate.

Why run Duralites when I can get a 4500mah NiMh battery for around $40?


The 4000 mah Duralite is a 7.4 volt pack and weights 6.5 ozs. It delivers a constant voltage thru the regulator to what ever voltage the regulator is set for. The voltage going to the servos will be the same from the first flight till the last flight.

David

David

[loewermx]

No problem Jeff, I think I am going to give the Duralites a shot.


Thanks for the reply David, It looks like these are the way to go. I really like the fact that they are Redundant, I would really hate to put my new Tempest in because of a battery failure.

It was a pleasure meeting you, HC, Clintstone, Jody and all the rest of the crew. :noteworthy [/quote]

[Clintstone]

Loewermx, we were all running the Duralites and I flew 2 gallons down there and never recharged and I even flew today on the same charge prior to going to LA. I would rather fly than charge. The Duralite charger is plug and play and I feel good in knowing I have done all I can to be SAFE.

David made this same rec. to me before I started flying Duralites and I have had no regrets. GREAT PRODUCT BACKE DBY GOOD PEOPLE> NO BRAINER

[HeliDriver]

Can you safely and reliably use the new Futaba checker/discharge unit BR2000 or whatever it is with Lith Ion or Poly packs? I really like that little unit but everything I read sez it's for NiCad and NiMH only?

Perhaps it's safe to use it to check voltage under load but I worry about the .9v discharge threshold, I've always heard you can't safely discharge Lithium packs below 5v so I'm wondering if the Futaba unit can safely discharge Lithium packs or should it only be used to check voltage?

BTW_ It was great meeting many of you at LARKS, Clint, DavidH, Kam, HC and plenty more guys.

[DavidH]

Can you safely and reliably use the new Futaba checker/discharge unit BR2000 or whatever it is with Lith Ion or Poly packs? I really like that little unit but everything I read sez it's for NiCad and NiMH only?


Raymond,
Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see where a volt meter would know what type of battery the voltage it is reading is coming from. I know a few people that are using the Futaba BR2000 to check Lithium packs and they seem to think it is fine. The Futaba meter does have an adjustable load from 1 to 3 amps I believe. I have found no reason to discharge the Lithium/Ion packs other than when they are being used for flying. They do not create any memory that I know about. I put my Lithium/Ion packs on charge each day, where I fly one flight or 10 flights. They have performed flawless for over a year .

The voltage cutoff device for the Duralite Lithium/Ion packs is set for 5.5 volts. I would guess it is set a little high, so I would think 5 volts that you mentioned is probably the lowest you can go with a 7.4 volt pack without damaging the cells.


David

[HeliDriver]

David, I agre with your logic about loading reading, the meter probably doesn't care what it's monitoring, it just cares about voltage under load.

However I'm very concerned about trying to use the Futaba checker/discharger as a discharge unit. I suspect the logic looks for a low voltage cutoff of .9v per cell. I don't think you can take a Lithium down that low nor do I think it's a good idea to even attempt it.

It is a shame this unit isn't made to look at Lithium batteries, Futaba should be a little more far sighted when bring a product like this to market.

Currently I have no method to check loading before the switch/regulator so I may go ahead and get one of these for that puprose only. I wish it would accurately discharge lithium packs so I could get an idea of the overall health of the pack which you really only get if you cycle the pack.

I also agree there's no need to cycle a lithium pack except to verify capacity.

[Clintstone]

With the Duralite tester you can watch the voltage under a load and the capacity is also tested at that time because if you lose a cell you will lose capacity which in turn will drop the voltage excessively under a load. Just for ex. the 4000mah pack is 2 2000 mah packs running parallel ( not in series ) this makes the capacity go up but not the voltage. I test between each flight because I feel it is my part on being safe even thou I know I can get 12 to 15 flights per charge. In that the Duralites have no memory you could charge between every flight but there is no need. Duralites charge safe circuit is one of the things that helped to make up my mind which li-ion system to go with. The people behind the product just topped it off. PLUG AND PLAY, I have their whole system and all I do is plug and play and I fly istead of charge. I was skeptical at first but now I could not imagine or consider putting up my 90 machines w/o Duralite protection and performance........it is just not worth the risk to me. Think about it like this, YOU can do everything right and still have a problem with a Heli..........now isn't it smart to incress your chances to suceed in having the most fun you can ???? Try it and you will never go back. The first think you will notice is the servo response from the first and last flight being the same and as you fly more you will realize the added security of a redundant pack. Give yourself the best opp. to suceed. :glasses:

[charles]

David is right about being able to use the Futaba tester. It has different switch positions for 4.8, 6.0, 7.4v packs. All you have to do is put the switch on the 7.4v for checking the lithium packs.

Thanks

Charles

[Rob Stump]

Not sure if anyone's planning on using the BR2000 for discharge of lithiums but you should be concerned because the directions state specifically not to do so. It doesn't state why but I imagine it is for the same reason Helidriver suspects in the cutoff logic being .09V.

The directions also state that it can check one cell lithiums however, I have had no problems using the BR2000 to check my 4000mah flat packs. In using my BR2000 I reached the "STOP FLY" voltage of 6.9 volts a flight sooner than when using the Duralite checker. Not a bad thing though. If anything a little more safety cushion. I'm sure the voltage would vary from checker to checker though. Like David said the safety switch is designed to cutoff at 5.5 volts. David correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure this is to give you a little "wiggle" room.

Just something to consider. These batteries are very sensitive. The AMA has even put out warnings on the use and handling of Lipos, Li-ions and the like. Bottom line is that if you are not experienced or well informed on the use of these batteries you shouldn't be trying alternate means of charging which I am guilty of myself! The manufacturer's suggested methods to my knowledge is only to use Duralite Chargers and Checkers. They are extremely simple to use and not that costly if you consider your investment. Its also worth the peace of mind you get when your out having fun flying! :D

[Lee Taylor]

From what I understand, the reason behind not discharging Li cells, is that they begin to break themselves down...or "fry themselves" rather. This is also why it is recommended that you do not drop below a pack voltage of 5.5V (on a standard 7.4V pack). Once you cross this threshhold too many times, or in some cases even once, the integrity of the cell starts to diminish. I'm a Navy ET, and from all that I've learned about Li cells, it's a good idea not to go below a company's recommended voltage...weird things can happen...believe me, I've seen some bad things happen to a cell. :mrgreen: Our use in this type of cell ATT is limited, but opening up. Just my 2-cents.