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View Full Version : Need some 10S setup help


bonzai888
08-18-2008, 07:04 PM
Hi everyone,

one of my current project is building a 10S Trex 600 with Scorpion 740KV motor using Jazz-55 ESC.

Thinking about using 2 Outrage 5S 3700mah but not sure the battery placement to have the perfect CG.

If you are using 2 5S please post some pix or give me some guidance that will be greatly appreciated.

fogger
08-18-2008, 07:35 PM
I was using 2x 4s 3700's and tried 2 configurations. The first one, I had the battery tray positioned up so I could get one pack under it on the flat bottom frame plate, and the other on the angled battery tray. Later I wound up putting the battery tray all the way down (almost vertical) and just put the 2 packs one in front of the other. The latter config worked better for CG...

If I can find some I'll post pics...

-Fog

oldschool269
08-18-2008, 08:12 PM
10s on the nose makes it way heavy .i have been there...on 600 blades, consider lower than 3700's Ma lipo on the nose

i would use 2 x 5s 3300's or even 2 x 5s 3000's in outrage on the nose. as a first suggestion.

ive been there and tried a 10s 3700s setup on 600 mm blades and i didnt like it ...i called it the brick.


10 is easy ... doing it all again ...

i would use the
1 x 6s 3000's on the nose ,
2 x 2s 3000's on each side at the front,( using the frame mounts on the nose of the frame.
to get the cg more neutral. and closer to stock

thats just my take on it . it would fly superior to the 6s setup..

10s 3700's would be a good counterweight best used if you streached the boom , and run 690's , 105's on the tail

it would fly similar to the 6s trex with more power. and the bonus lighter disk loading


the best 10-12s setup are lighter or same as the 6s setup they are replacing,

otherwise you are wasting all that power just to offset the extra weight ,
and the heli flys like a brick even with 15 deg of pitch .

build it light and high cell count, and it will fly awesome..

jason

bonzai888
08-18-2008, 11:27 PM
Hmmmmmm... just don't want do 8S setup and using 2 X 4S lipos. Hate to sell those 4S later on if I decide to sell the 600. 4S will be pain in the butt to sell. 5S is much easier to sell later on.

Do you guys suggest running 10S with this motor 0r........???

Need some pix and more suggestions please

thanks :thumbup:

fogger
08-19-2008, 01:29 PM
For some types of flying it's actually good to have a little more inertia. If you're gonna stick bang, then yes keep it as light as you can. Realize though that the lower mAh packs will be getting pushed higher in the C rating and you will have to carefully watch the max current you pull.

10s 3700 is not -that- heavy. I even flew mine on 10s 4350 and yes it was heavy, but it had stupid power since the packs could continuously provide tons of current without getting tired or damaged...

If you can, try a couple different setups and pick the one that suites your flying style...

As for the motor, don't know what it's max voltage rating is but the kv looks good for either 8s or 10s.

-Fog

oldschool269
08-19-2008, 04:55 PM
For some types of flying it's actually good to have a little more inertia. If you're gonna stick bang, then yes keep it as light as you can. Realize though that the lower mAh packs will be getting pushed higher in the C rating and you will have to carefully watch the max current you pull.

10s 3700 is not -that- heavy. I even flew mine on 10s 4350 and yes it was heavy, but it had stupid power since the packs could continuously provide tons of current without getting tired or damaged...

If you can, try a couple different setups and pick the one that suites your flying style...

As for the motor, don't know what it's max voltage rating is but the kv looks good for either 8s or 10s.

-Fog

Bang on , i like alot of flips/ direction changes in my flying,
10s 3700's would fly track good in 40 mph wind , so there is plusses to it .

Yes, it comes down to how you like to fly

Jason

KDE Direct
08-19-2008, 11:58 PM
I personally enjoy a heavier bird, so I have no problems running 2x ThunderPower Extreme v2 5S-5000mAh packs in series and stacked on the front tray. Definitely on the heavier side, but the shear power (when powering the NEU 1912H/1Y motor) is simply ridiculous and crushes any 6S, 8S, or Nitro helicopter out there in performance (including 90-size Nitros). Any form of hard 3D is capable on a 10S setup, so don't worry about weight too much IMHO. On 6S and 8S setups, weight is definitely a consideration for optimal performance, but on 10S weight isn't as big a deal anymore as the availability of power is always there. :cheers I wouldn't base this solely on my opinion, but I've had multiple world-class professionals fly my setup and not one of them commented on it feeling heavy. With more power than a Nitro 90 and still 1-2 pounts lighter than the lightest TREX 700 out there, performance is still crazy for any 3D maneuvers.

fogger
08-20-2008, 12:25 AM
that's exactly how I had my 3700's mounted, works great.

oldschool269
08-20-2008, 08:05 AM
I personally enjoy a heavier bird, so I have no problems running 2x ThunderPower Extreme v2 5S-5000mAh packs in series and stacked on the front tray. Definitely on the heavier side, but the shear power (when powering the NEU 1912H/1Y motor) is simply ridiculous and crushes any 6S, 8S, or Nitro helicopter out there in performance (including 90-size Nitros). Any form of hard 3D is capable on a 10S setup, so don't worry about weight too much IMHO. On 6S and 8S setups, weight is definitely a consideration for optimal performance, but on 10S weight isn't as big a deal anymore as the availability of power is always there. :cheers I wouldn't base this solely on my opinion, but I've had multiple world-class professionals fly my setup and not one of them commented on it feeling heavy. With more power than a Nitro 90 and still 1-2 pounts lighter than the lightest TREX 700 out there, performance is still crazy for any 3D manoeuvres.


Holy shnitzel !! 1.4 kg of lipo on the nose !!! OMG ...

what HS are you running with that setup ?? curious .. i governed mine at 2100.

but was told 10s 3700 should be around 2500 for GOOD 3d , 5000ma would have to be up around 2800 HS on 600mm blades ,

i wasn't willing to risk a blade failure from the hyper HS.

i never saw the power you guys banter about . sure it wouldn't bog , but its wasn't a rocket either..

I compared the flight characteristics of the 6s and 10s heli .

the 6 s flew like a freestyle built shock flier ,
E.G. small movements on the sticks the result , you could just tie it in knots in the air in front of myself ,

i found the 10s to come in like a big old balsa plank,
heavy and tip stally to fly. not confident to do much to low,
needed heaps of stick to get it to fly ... to do tick tocs , you needed to use the whole stick , not just work the centres of the sticks .

Each to his own , variety is the spice of life.
i want to do 12 s 3000 next , ive tried the old heavy routine , want to go light with high cell count.
Jason

OTA
08-20-2008, 09:29 AM
Oldschool
I can only speak for 6S and 12S but partly agree to you, meaning that weight is essential for how the bird feels in the air more or less independant of available power.
The floating capability is severely lowered even with 2-300grams added weight, and you need serious power to overcome that feeling.
I have been "working" my 12S to lower the overall weight and is now happy. Have also got some Outrage 6S 3000 packs i will test to even better suit weightwise compared to my TP3300.
Needless to say anyway: My 12S on TP 3300 outperform the 6S BIG TIME even at lower HS, mainly due to it is unboggable.

Please feel free to send me a PM if you have questions for your possible 12S future. I will be happy to help you out if needed.

oldschool269
08-20-2008, 10:04 AM
Thanks ota , i will .. can you put some pics up when you are finished ...

i think 12s will be the bomb , and the other outrages i have are holding up good so far .

Jason

OTA
08-20-2008, 10:36 AM
It have been finish a while ago and in daily use so to say. 100 flights so far and still going strong. BTW, i run 2200 governed, meaning it is geared for 2500 leaving enough headroom for the governor.
I will see if i can add some pictures.

fogger
08-20-2008, 12:31 PM
how is that Jive 80HV working?

bonzai888
08-20-2008, 01:43 PM
Thanks Everyone for all the suggestions and comments!!

GREATLY appreciated!!:)

This gave me more confidence to build this 10S project without stressing nose heavy by using what I have.

This will be my setup which I already have every parts.

9452 cyclics
9254 Tail
Spartan Gyro
New Scorpion 740kv
CC HV85 ESC
2 x 5S Outrage 3700mah (on the way)

Crossing my fingers on the CG hope it will be ok.
Love to see all the setup pictures if you guys can post.

More comments and suggestion will be great

Thanks again! :)

OTA
08-20-2008, 03:41 PM
how is that Jive 80HV working?

Its working perfect. No more hazzle of governor (smooth:thumbup:) settings and easy set up. AND the best, built in switching BEC which cleans up the heli and remove approx 130g weight (Align regulator and 2S battery):)
However, some people have reported shut down problems with it due to overcurrent, and it is supposed to be hardware protection which is built in.
Kontronik says it doesnt "protect itself" before peak amps (not possible to read on regular FDR) of around 270A:shock:, so it should simply be impossible with my low amp draw of around 80A.:lol: Tango setup.
The issues is still not fully resolved and happens just to some types of motors.

fogger
08-20-2008, 03:57 PM
cool, thanks. yea, the 55-10-32 on my 600 worked awesome, so I figured as much.

cmassa
08-20-2008, 04:32 PM
I've been flying a Flybarless 10S 600 for quite a while now. I use 10S PolyRC 3700 mAh packs in brick configuration vertical on the front and it is only slightly nose heavy. It weighs a little over 8 pounds. I just stretched it to use 690's using the tail boom and torque tube from a 700. I use a Neu 1515/2Y H motor and a CC85HV ESC. It is about 8 lbs 7 oz as a 700. RPM is governed to 1950 using the latest CC software. I have also added a Mikado Counterbearing to help take the load off the motor bearings. So far the Neu bearings are nice and tight. I also use a regulator/BEC to remove the extra radio battery.

One piece of advice, don't use Mikado 10 or 11 tooth pinions on a high voltage setup. The larger pinions (>14T) for lower Kv motors seem to be better. They just grind into the main gear with any hard collective. I've ground out the end of an Align 10T steel pinion to fit over the Neu shaft.

oldschool269
08-20-2008, 08:26 PM
Thanks Cmassa,

so you are flying 3d with the 690's ?? hows it holding up ?

690;s are what i want to try on my 600

great info , its gold !
Jason

cmassa
08-20-2008, 08:38 PM
I've been working out the problem with the pinion so I haven't pushed it much yet. With the Mikado pinion, 2 flights with a few TicToc's would strip off the main gear. I've modified an Align pinion and hope to fly it this weekend to test it out. I'm not a hard 3D'er but am working on it. The 690's are very stable and on 10S I have plenty of power. A flying buddy has a similar setup with a Scorpion motor and has been hitting it a lot harder than I have and so far it is doing well.

oldschool269
08-20-2008, 09:03 PM
WHAT is the HIGHEST recorded amperage you guys have seen in you high cell count setups ? 10/12s

continuous , and peak ?

E.g. 50a cont / 90a peak ?

Jason

cmassa
08-20-2008, 09:09 PM
I hit peaks between 90 and 110 amps, usually closer to 90 and I am not very good at collective management so I'm sure I hit it hard sometimes. Average is probably around 50-60 amps. I'm on 10S. My packs are NEVER more than 130 degrees and that is only on hot summer days. Usually pack temps are around 110-120 degree F.

oldschool269
08-20-2008, 09:35 PM
ok so the lipos need to supply 100 amps continuous .Min imoo.
sweet ,. that's easy to do on the new generation lipos today
but looking at 3300's again ...LOL's
thanks ,

Jason

OTA
08-21-2008, 02:53 AM
Mine average is around 25 and peaks up to 80 from my FDR.
Still my packs ends up at around 50degrC in a summer day around 26-27degr ambient.
Packs below 3000mah should be avoided unless they are 30C or more.