Stolen heli's/ CC fraud

[cbergen]

Any body in the Torrance CA area know of someone named J Allen at 1433 W 218th St.

Be on the lookout for an Intrepid Gas EB and an Intrepid 60 that may be for sale or is new to the area as of the end of Oct.

This individual ordered both of these birds with an American Express Card, waited 2 months, then issued a charge back.

American Express veified the account AND the address, and STILL issued a charge back to the tune of $2700.00.

If you know of this persons whereabouts, please contact us at 269-445-2060. We'll have local law enforcement take care of the rest.........

Chris Bergen

[DebianDog]

You can do THAT?!

Sorry man :arggg:

[WillJames]

I definitely would not take any more AMEX cards Chris. THat sucks! I am shocked that can happen with a reputable CC company!

[valerko]

2700$ is enough for couple of tanks of gas and 2 baseball bats :D :D

Too bad there's so much BS in the world now.Sometimes you wish you could do what you "think" it's right. :twisted:

[NolanManley]

With a AMEX card the card holder has full recourse to have charges refunded but I think a reputable business can deal with AMEX and show shipping receipts and such to come to a understanding.

I've had to have charges reversed on an airline and two Internet companies that charged for services not received.

Anyway you look at it, it sucks when your a legit business and have to go thru the crap Chris is facing.

I'm going back out west later this year and if it's not settled by then I'll find the guy for ya Chris. I have a slightly used shotgun that can do the job. ;)

[cbergen]

A little recent addition to this story, Did you know that if you don't pay your american express bill, the charge is reversed back to the merchant?

I just got a handy little book in the mail from AMEX, that plainly spells that out.....

[DebianDog]

Then I would like to order 10 Bergen Turbine helicopters please. Put it on my AMEX.

That sucks! Sorry man.

[3DWannaBe]

That is a lot of money for a small company. It should be against the law for American Express to get away with this. I will be canceling mine and telling the reason, have to many cc anyway.

[rob_jones]

AMEX is GREAT for the consumer, terrible for the merchant (which is why many don't accept it). When I had my RadioShack store, a guy bought a $200 radar detector, showed me ID and paid with an AMEX. Two months later I got a letter from AMEX saying they the customer disputed the charge and they were charging me back. Never once did they ask my input.

So this guy legally stole that radar detector from me. I tried to get him to at least return it, but he never responded to me. It makes my blood boil just thinking about it!

I asked the AMEX rep what would happen if I took my AMEX card to Sears, bought a plasma TV, then disputed the charge a month later. They said they'd refund my money and it'd be up to Sears to try to get the money or the TV back. If I were a less than honest person, I might've had thoughts about going to an out-of-state Sears, buying a bunch of TV's, then opening a pawn shop!

[bb4532]

Mastercard and visa work charge backs the same way. We lose alot of sales by not taking credit cards, but we work off very small margins. We cannot afford to be hit with dishonest chargebacks, so we have avoided taking credit cards. Hope you catch up with the guy Chris. It's people like that who make it bad for all. Bob & Becky. B&B Hobbies. Also hope your boy is enjoying the raptor.

[Shannon Davis]

On a similar note. My company sells a product that cost $7500.00.

Late last year we had a customer call and ask a few questions and order 2 of them.

We don't take any credit cards only cashiers check-- FEDEX COD.

Unfortunatley this is not good enough-- we got 2 counterfiet cashiers checks and are out $15,000.00. :(

The FedEx insurance we put on every package does not cover counterfiets. ( we did have a guy give the FedEx driver $13,000.00 last year in the form of a bad company check-- not a cachiers check as requested on the FedEx form--big mistake by the driver--and Fed Ex paid up in about 3 days.

The cashiers check falls in the lap of the Secret Service, and after meeting w/ them they explained that this was a real problem in the US right now. Most counterfiets are US Post Office Money Orders and a few Bank Checks like we got. It appears in our case the check paper was real- stolen- just all of the Bank info was false and no way for the driver to tell th difference without calling in every check-- obviously FedEx is not going to do that.

It does seem that we could in this age of computers have a system in place where a driver could scan the check and have it verified very quickly. But for now it is the merchants problem.

The secret service did say that the USPTO money order are a huge problem now, so be very careful when selling something.

After haveing this happen and talking about it to some people I have ran across 3-4 people w/ a similar story in the past 1-2 years.

One of our dealers sold his personal drag car for $14,000.00 and the guy paid up in USPTO money orders-- fake !!!!! :( A tube frame drag car does not have a title and there is virtually no chance of recovering the car-- he just got screwed!!! :(

[WillJames]

Dishonest people suck.

[Gary JP4]

As a merchant who used to accept credit cards I can say that it takes the complaint and warranty issues out of your hands and into the hands and under the rules or discretion of the credit card Company. PayPal I understand is worse in this respect because they are not governed by the rules banks are.

All that said there is one CC company that really Sucks from a merchant or personal card holder standpoint. They just don't do what they say they are going to do. I had a lot of reimbursed expenses and wanted to use a CC that had some kind of kick back like air miles or something. My office manager got me this card. I didn't use it for a couple of months. I was sitting at a restaurant and decided to use it. It was declined. I called and they said I hadn't paid my bill (it was the company that you have to pay your bill in full each month). I said I never had a bill and had never used the card. They said the problem was the bonus program I had purchased to get air miles for expenditures and it cost 50 / year and was charged up front. I said I never got a bill. They said they would fix it and I could use the card. I tried again. Again it was declined. I had nothing to do so I called again. They said they would fix it. I tried and was declined again. I called back and the Lady said the previous customer service representatives were not authorized to let me use the card since the bill was not paid at the end of the first month. I said “so those people I talked to are not authorized to do what they said they were going to do” and she said, "that is correct". Of course there are many delays, holds, transfers, menu's to irritate you trying to get through customer service.

I said "do you hear this sound, it is a Swiss army knife scissors cutting up the card and I don't ever want to hear from you again".

I canceled our merchant account with that same company at my business. Two years later they started sending me merchant account service charges. I called and ask what these were for and they said for your merchant account. I said I don't have a merchant account. They said it was set up by your card machine representative. I said I don't have a x!x*/-=!*?!? card machine or a x/x(#*xx!!0-( local sales representative and I don't want to hear your company’s name again. She said "I will cancel you r account Sir”. It was only $5 per month but they managed to tap my company bank account. I wonder how many people they do that to that don’t catch it and they get away with it.

[jamesotron99]

It does seem that we could in this age of computers have a system in place where a driver could scan the check and have it verified very quickly. But for now it is the merchants problem.

Seems strange that you dont. Here in NZ if you try and pay at a supermarket (for example) by cheque they scan the number and their point of sales software verifies that it's all above board with the bank in real time.

Paypal is much worse. They will freeze your account based on simple heresay and you'll never get your cash back. Never leave a positive balance in your paypal account :D

[coloradoheli3d]

Thats the problem here in the US, the laws protect the consumer, not the business. As far as I can see the laws says the business is allways wrong. I owned a machine shop for many years, sold it because was tired of chasing my money. Collection laws are just as bad if someone owes you money, so then you add all these CC laws on top of that. I sold it becasue it just wasn't worth the stress to own it any more.

[ClayK]

Even if it is a money order or a cashiers check, treat it as a personal check. Allow 5 business days for the check to clear. I usually do a couple more just for good luck. Consumers usually are more than understanding, if they aren't, they aren't the customers you want.

People that lie, cheat or steal are about the lowest form of scum on the earth.

[Gary JP4]

I ran a flight school for 15 years. Most of the customers were local (I know where you live kind of stuff). Here in the US the personal check is easier to deal with than credit cards in most cases if you can track the individual down. Because it is a more clear-cut crime to write a bad check than to dispute a credit card claim or probably even to try to collect on a bad credit card. Just swear out a warrant and the DA takes care of it as criminal prosecution. But, you have to have somebody go to court. I have had court rescheduled 2 or 3 times and you have to be there each time. You can't recapture canceled check fees, your time, etc. But in the last case the individual plea bargained for probation, paid the bill, or would have gone to jail. Credit card problems are much harder to deal with. You have to sue ultimately.

[Alfred]

Can't you guys use Internet banking transfer from your bank account to the business bank account?

That's what I do now. The fees are a lot cheaper.
It guaranties that the business get's the money and the customer has proof of transfer.

[elviswl]

Regarding Visa and Mastercard. The Merchant typically bears the risk, but...

VISA now has a program called VPASS.. If the merchant participate in this program, then the risk is passed from the Merchant to the card issuing bank, plus the merchant also get a lower discount rate (lower transaction cost and reduced fraud risks).

Mastercard has a similar program. Visa's program is more widely accepted with more participating banks/cardholders.

Regarding the chargebacks.... Typically for web merchants, if you have a matching AVS, shipped to the matching address, and also have proof of delivery, you can dispute the chargeback.. some you win, some you loose.


-elvis

[Gary JP4]

I don't take credit cards any more. Not because of the problems alone but because with the type of business I am in now I don't have to. Instead of a large number of transactions in a day, with the general public I now work bigger jobs of half a day to several weeks with established customers. I am glad to not be dealing with the general public and credit cards.