Problem when turning/piro the Extreme/Gy601

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

kthane; yes I will try that next time I go flying.....

PS: What hole in the bellcrank /Arm at the tail do you use? Do you all use the center hole????


ChopperKnud

[Zilly]

Knud,

I have just been through the same with my 611 the gain tracking probably wont do much it is more used for if your heli drifts and continues to drift after doing a pyro.

What I did was use the D1IA and D1DA functions to make the hard stop softer and then the softer stop with the bounce back a little better, I found it difficult to get both exactly the same but I may do some more work on this.

z

[TerryBelanger]

My understanding was that you should never use trim or subtrim on the rudder controls regardless of what mode you are in. Non Heading hold center point should be adjusted mechanically?

I apologize if I am just not understanding what you are saying. I don't what to get off subject! :D

[ChrisLaFollette]

I agree with you T. No Trim or Subtrim on the rudder channel. I adjust mine to sit still at whatever headspeed I use most often(idle up 2). Never had any problems.

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

What do you then do if, 1/2 turn on the linkage is to much?
:(

What Non HH gyro Gain do you use when setting up the mechanic / Linkage?


ChopperKnud

[DavidH]

Knud,
I have never really had the problem of a 1/2 turn of the link being too much or too little on the tail rotor. Usuallly it will take at least a couple of full turns for me to see movement.
The GY 601 holds very well in Normal mode also, I use the same gain settings in Normal Mode as I use in AVCS mode. Aerobatic gain setting is like 42% both AVCS and Normal. For hoveing mode, gain setting is like 55% both AVCS and Normal mode. No other adjustments in the gyro menu on the gyro except the limit settings. I use delay on the Rudder channel in the transmitter and also I use expo on the rudder channel in the transmitter.

David

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

Hallo,

So this weekend it was flying weather in Denmark – sun and 0°C. :D

I did some Gyro/Tail setup test.

The servo was still at 90° at center servoposition, Bellcrank Straight up/down, Arm at tail parallel with the tailrotorshaft, Link at tail in middle hole.

Lift the heli up in Idleup2, and NON HH gain 50%
Adjust the link so that is almost kept heading (if turning the link one way, it was turning one way, and if turning the link the other way, it would turn the nose the other way)
Use the Tail trim on the Transmitter, to fine tune the heading (used +4 on the Futaba 9Z)

Landed the heli, toggled the gyro switch (HH/Non HH)
Controlled that the servo was standing still in HH
Lift the heli up

RESULT: The tail does still drift the other way when stopping fast 45° piro to the right!!! :( :(
When stopping fast 45° to the left, it stops very fast without drifting or hunting. :)



Then I tryed to add +10% “Gain Tracking”
The result was the same
:) :) :arggg: :arggg:

Next time I will try 3D mode in the GY601..
Any other ideas??? :?:

ChopperKnud

[Zilly]

Knud, you must not use trim on the Transmitter there is no point next time you reset the Gyro It will look at your transmitter and re set the mid point regardless of the trim. I would look at ways you can get the heli to fly straight in Normal Mode without using the trim, then set the Gyro.

I am suprised that Gain tracking does not help as this is exactly what the manual says it is for, have you tried changing the gain tracking from +10 to -10 and if this does not work try +20 or - 20. I would continue trying this first. If this does nothing return it to 0 and then

The problem you are having sounds to me like it could be a vibration issue and the GY601 is sensitive to vibration, I would look at a softer mounting pad as a starting point if this helps but does not stop it completely go even softer or remount the gyro under the battery tray. Also look at the dialling in of your fan etc to make sure you have no high frequency vibrations.

If all else fails look at trying a different Gyro Sensor if you can borrow one off a friend.

z

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

Zilly,
I use the Transmitter trim, whentrying keep the nose fixed, in NON HH - because a 1/2 turn on the link is too much.
Afterwards I reset the Gyro (Toggle the switch), and do not touch the trim afterwards.....
Is that wrong?

ChopperKnud

[Zilly]

Knud,

I'll be honest once you are in heading hold regardless of how you have the model trimed out in normal mode (within reason of course) the heading hold should lock. I had a similar problem with my Stratus and went through most of what you have described, I even tried switching gyros. The only thing that worked for me was a softer Gyro pad (helped a bit) and then I relocated teh Gyro under the battery tray which completely solved all my drifting.

z


Zilly,
I use the Transmitter trim, whentrying keep the nose fixed, in NON HH - because a 1/2 turn on the link is too much.
Afterwards I reset the Gyro (Toggle the switch), and do not touch the trim afterwards.....
Is that wrong?

ChopperKnud

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

Zilly

Your drifting problems: wahs that when you fly forward/backwards?
or was (as in my case) when stopping fast right piros?

ChopperKnud

[Zilly]

It happened almost all the time..

z


Zilly

Your drifting problems: wahs that when you fly forward/backwards?
or was (as in my case) when stopping fast right piros?

ChopperKnud

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

Find this on RR
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t228045p1/
regarding GY601
I did fly it some more today and it feels better, but for some reason it will piroette to the right faster then the left, by quite abit,,
It just seems soft and kind of sluggest.
Try some MORE foam rubber under the gyro sensor. Probably a vibration issue under the sensor.If you are running it on the gassor then it's a vibration issue

Should I try the black foam-tape from MA - or will that be too soft?
http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=heli&Product_Code=ACE306

Or maybe the Tape from my CSM Revlock
http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=heli&Product_Code=CSM151&Category_Code=Tape


I have seen that CSM have made some new tape for the gyros.......
http://www.rcmodels.org/csm/

DavidH: I use 3M Products 4408 double sided vinyl foam tape
Do you have I picture of that?

ChopperKnud

[DavidH]

Should I try the black foam-tape from MA - or will that be too soft?
http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=heli&Product_Code=ACE306

The tape above is the 3M Products 4408 double sided vinyl foam tape. That is all I have used to mount electronics for the last 10 years. I have never used the foam squares that come with Futaba gyros but one time. The foam separated without warning, luckly I got the heli landed. Since then I have stuck with what I know that works.
I buy the 3M Products 4408 foam tape in a 36 yard roll. Roll will last a few years.

The foam tape from ACE and from MA are the same. They are 3M Products 4408 double sided vinyl foam tape.

David

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

Thank´s DavidH,
I will remove my sensor from the original Futana tape, and try the MA tape (3M Products 4408 double sided vinyl foam tape) this weekend.
Firstly without the velcro.....
And one layer of this MA tape....

maybe the Smal driftning after stopping right piro will stop, amd also the "soft and sluggest" tail will dissapear......
:D :D :lol:

ChopperKnud

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

Hi

Now I have mounted the Gy601 Sensor as:
- 3M Products 4408 double sided vinyl foam tape (Minair tape)
- Steelplate
- Original GY601 tape
- and the the sensor

Fly it with and without any Velcro.
Try the add +15% Grain traking.
Try to change the gain tracking to -15% gain tracking (That was bad, then the gy fully over compensate when stopping piro)

AND the tail still over compensate (drifting approxx. 5° in other direction after stopping fast right piros..
:arggg: :arggg: :arggg: :bomb:

I still need to try +29% (that is max) gainm tracking...... :lol:



ChopperKnud

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

aagggrhhh :arggg: :bomb: :arggg:
I Still do have the problem:
When stopping fast right piro, the gyro "over compensate" (turn 5° backwards when stopping)
And the tail feels not vary “stiff” when flying.

I think I have tried every suggested things…..
Right now I have the gyro mounted with 3 layers of “MA double Tape” – the steel plate, and then 1 layer of the standard 601 tape, and wrap around with Velcro.
I have tried max Gain tracking.

But I was wondering:
Do you guys fly in 3D mode or FAI mode on GY601?
Should I try to use the inner and/or the outer hole at the tail bell crank (now I use the center hole)?
How many of you guys have the mounted the gyro on the “standard” place on the Fury Extreme?
Could it be because running the YS91/8:45, and thereby the tail do not have enough power?
:arggg:

ChopperKnud

[DavidH]

The tail should have the same power no matter what gear ratio your using. The gear ratio to the tail still stays the same with each main gear ratio.

If your turning 1850 with 8.45 or 1850 with 8.18. The tail rotor will still turn the same speed with both main gear ratios.

If your using 3 layers of the double sided foam tape from MA, that is too much in my opinion. I don't use the steel plate when the gyro is mounted on a surface that is not carbon fiber. I only use one layer of the MA style foam tape to move the sensor directly to the aluminum sensor mount on the heli. I don't use any velcro around the gyro.

I use the GY601 in F3C mode.

David

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

Hi
Different gearing (8,45 – 8,18):
Yes sure, the Tail speed would be the same if I use the same Headspeed.
But when I did use the 8,18 and the OS91PS I did run faster rpm on the head, I think I did run 1900-1950……


I guess I will try 1 layer of the MA tape (and no plate).
Afterwards I will try 3D mode.....
And last try a different hole at the bell crank on the tail

You 3D guys: do you also use the F3c mode on the GY601?


ChopperKnud

[megotroulette]

maybe your tail servo is wearing out or you have a dud?

or have you replaced it?

Cheers,

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

hi

The servo has flown about 600 flights - not hard 3D......

ChopperKnud

[megotroulette]

thats getting fairly old.... i would be replacing that and try it...

Cheers,

[DavidH]

I don't know if 600 flights is a lot on a 9251 or not. I have one model that has a 9251 on it that has been there since I got the GY 601's in 2001. I don't know how many flights are on that one servo. But I would guess there is well above 1000 flights on it.


David

[megotroulette]

i've heard of them only lasting about 180 3d flights.

i had a new one which went after around 200 flights...man was i :bomb: :arggg:

Cheers,

[DavidH]

Yes I have heard of them also only lasting 10-12 flights. But usually those were servos that the gyro gain was set higher than needed. I only set the gain high enough to hold the tail and no more.

David