Stock Gaui 550 for 3D?

[xodarap1]

I finally got a response back from Benny (Justin Chi's father) about using the plastic or CF framed Gaui H550 for 3D.

He said Justin's 550 that was flown in the video was all stock and that it can take all the pain with experienced stick input.
He also said that there was a mod a while back that was a motor bracket for the plastic version (Kahn, maybe your stiffy if famous.. unless there was another bracket he was talking about?)
Anyway, he said as long as you use a part like that on your plastic hurri with smooth input, your good to go.

I did not get an answer back from him yet as to what motor, pinion, gear setup etc he meant by "all stock".. so i've put the question back to him once again and will let you know when i get a response. :cheers

Steve :)

[mysticmead]

I believe he was using the stock 1100kv 1500watt motor.. 14t/42/19/61 setup...

and Benny is 100% right.. with an EXPERIENCED pilot, the hurri is completely 3D capable out of the box..but for most stick bangers, it leads to stripped gears and disappointment.. of course in teh right hands.. a blade CP Pro is 3D capable... and we all know that most people get pissed at that heli and toss it in the trash..

I saw a video a while back of a guy doing full 3D with a old stock hurri... plastic frame and 850kv motor... it all came down to collective management.

[CeeveeSiN]

I still wanna do that block mod to stiffen mine up a tad.

[jujiro]

I believe he was using the stock 1100kv 1500watt motor.. 14t/42/19/61 setup...

and Benny is 100% right.. with an EXPERIENCED pilot, the hurri is completely 3D capable out of the box..but for most stick bangers, it leads to stripped gears and disappointment.. of course in teh right hands.. a blade CP Pro is 3D capable... and we all know that most people get pissed at that heli and toss it in the trash..

I saw a video a while back of a guy doing full 3D with a old stock hurri... plastic frame and 850kv motor... it all came down to collective management.


My only question is , if it's just collective management , how do you know when there's to much collective being used ? It would be a scary thought that the drivetrain could give under one mistake, or if you had to dump collective into it to try to save if from smashing into the ground. that plus . I don't stick bang, just enough to make the heli preform crisp.

The only thing I don't get about this hobby is that most of the stuff that is supposed to be for beginners need a highly advanced pilot to actually get the most out of them. But yea a very experienced pilot could do full 3D on any model that is capable of it.

[xodarap1]

Well, i still haven't ever stripped a gear in flight on full collective hits at 100% flat on my plastic or cf hurri using the z30 with the 13t, 42, 20owb, 61 setup running -+10.5 pitch.
It was only when i went up to the 14t that i stripped it in flight, but then i was really hitting it hard when it smeared the gear.
If my skillz were better, i'm sure the hurri would be able to do some good 3D with the 13t, 42, 20owb, 61.. or even well managed collective with the 14t setup.
Going up over that speed though, the hurri isn't forgiving at all.. but, as it has been mentioned before, there are plenty of helis doing 3D under 2300 HS.

btw..I'm still thinking about what heli to build next.. and i'm now leaning towards the Rex 500 only because it can share packs with my hurris. I would like to go to the Rex 600 but it would open a new can of lipo worms. The Outrage is on my list of things to check out too.. but i'm guessing the price could be an Outrage :YeaBaby:

[mysticmead]

My only question is , if it's just collective management , how do you know when there's to much collective being used ? It would be a scary thought that the drivetrain could give under one mistake, or if you had to dump collective into it to try to save if from smashing into the ground. that plus . I don't stick bang, just enough to make the heli preform crisp.



knowing when it's to much collective...and when it's just enough... that's what separates the pros from the rest of us...they have a LOT of flights that teach them when they've gone over the limit and results in a crash or a drive train the gets blown..


The only thing I don't get about this hobby is that most of the stuff that is supposed to be for beginners need a highly advanced pilot to actually get the most out of them. But yea a very experienced pilot could do full 3D on any model that is capable of it.

of course it takes an advanced pilot to do all the 3D stuff.. if it was simple them the average person could take a heli out of a box and flip and loop the very first time they fly it.. think of it like this... take the average person and stick them in a formula one race car... sure, they can drive fast, but a pro will know how to really drive it to get the best performance out of it.

[jujiro]

knowing when it's to much collective...and when it's just enough... that's what separates the pros from the rest of us...they have a LOT of flights that teach them when they've gone over the limit and results in a crash or a drive train the gets blown..



of course it takes an advanced pilot to do all the 3D stuff.. if it was simple them the average person could take a heli out of a box and flip and loop the very first time they fly it.. think of it like this... take the average person and stick them in a formula one race car... sure, they can drive fast, but a pro will know how to really drive it to get the best performance out of it.


But the note on too much collective is just relative to the particular model. I mean I can tick tock my outrage G5 / T-rex 500 all day without worry of a gear giving while I'm stripping gears just doing a climb out or flip on my 550.

I meant to say that any average flyer can pick up a T-rex , Raptor , Outrage and can fly it hard without having to worry about the gears giving out on them . Now I know there are a few people flying the Hurricanes hard with no problems and I'd like to know what they are doing to get it like that ,becuase of my 5 helicopters ( including a hurri 200) I"ve never had a gear strip inflight other than My hurricane that loves to feast on them :confused:.

Not saying that the Hurricane 550 can't do 3d or deal with hard flights or anything . Just a bit peeved at stripping 3 gears in the last 2 days. Atleast I was able to save it with an auto each time

[xodarap1]

Now I know there are a few people flying the Hurricanes hard with no problems and I'd like to know what they are doing to get it like thatHopefully you are trying different gear combos and not just stripping gear after gear using the same combo..

I have put a lot (too much) time setting up the gear mesh perfectly (having to keep pulling the motor out to set it is a stupid design), but that's the only thing i've put time into as the rest of my hurris are stock parts (except the ion-x paddles on the cf hurri and a lower frame and some fins) :)
Use the z30 1110kv, 13T, 42, 20t owb, 61 with 500mm CF blades TC 100% with -+10.5 pitch. Fly it as hard as you can and try to strip the 42 gear in flight.
I can slam full collective over and over again doing vertical and aileron tocks during the flight and snap roll and flip it, full collective inverted and normal punch outs with 6s 3000mAh packs flown back to back and the gear doesn't strip or show any signs of wear.. in fact, i've been trying to strip it by abusing the heli just to see if i can make it fail.. but it keeps on taking the licking.
Another setup that has been rock solid for me has been the RevCo 20T, RevCo 68, 20 owb, 61.. I can't strip that combo out either running 100% flat with the 1100kv UltraFly motor on the plastic frame. :thumbup:
Give it a shot.. if your stripping out gears anyway you have nothing to lose by trying it.
If you set the mesh perfectly and can strip those out, then my helis must be magic (and all the more reason to keep trying to convince my wife to buy me another one). :lol: :) :)

[jujiro]

Hopefully you are trying different gear combos and not just stripping gear after gear using the same combo..

I have put a lot (too much) time setting up the gear mesh perfectly (having to keep pulling the motor out to set it is a stupid design), but that's the only thing i've put time into as the rest of my hurris are stock parts (except the ion-x paddles on the cf hurri and a lower frame and some fins) :)
Use the z30 1110kv, 13T, 42, 20t owb, 61 with 500mm CF blades TC 100% with -+10.5 pitch. Fly it as hard as you can and try to strip the 42 gear in flight.
I can slam full collective over and over again doing vertical and aileron tocks during the flight and snap roll and flip it, full collective inverted and normal punch outs with 6s 3000mAh packs flown back to back and the gear doesn't strip or show any signs of wear.. in fact, i've been trying to strip it by abusing the heli just to see if i can make it fail.. but it keeps on taking the licking.
Another setup that has been rock solid for me has been the RevCo 20T, RevCo 68, 20 owb, 61.. I can't strip that combo out either running 100% flat with the 1100kv UltraFly motor on the plastic frame. :thumbup:
Give it a shot.. if your stripping out gears anyway you have nothing to lose by trying it.
If you set the mesh perfectly and can strip those out, then my helis must be magic (and all the more reason to keep trying to convince my wife to buy me another one). :lol: :) :)


I've tried the 20/68/61 a 14/42/61. But I just checked my bearings, the one that holds the owb shaft in and one of them just fell apart, so I'm going to replace those and see if that helps any. Hopefully it was just the bearings were bad.

how are does Ion-x paddles doing for you ?

[xodarap1]

I hope the new bearings give you better results.
I have stripped the 14t,42,61 flying hard at 100% flat, so you might want to go down to a 13t,42,61 and see how that holds up (so far, its been great for me). The 14t was ok for hard sport as long as you don't go too wild, but i wanted a solid combo that would hold up no matter what i did with the sticks. On the plus side, it is harder to bog it with the 13t and the rotor does seem to recover much faster after tail down flip outs.
Sorry to hear about the bearings bro, the only bearings i've ever replaced on my hurris have been the owb's.
Oh..sorry lol.. the Ion paddles are awesome! I took the 20% expo that i was using down to 0% and man does that thing roll and flip. It's super sensitive, but i'm likin' it ;)
*I think you will have another report/review from another helifreak who will be trying those paddles on the hurri soon. :)

[JaggedEdge]

I must not fly as hard as you guys. I have a lot of flights with a 15/42/19 and just switched to a 15/42/20.

[kahn10]

+2........i've seen my hurri pushed very hard in tick tocks etc and to the max in sport flying with the 13/42/20/61 combo without any issue at all.with the hirobo flybar and paddles plus the stiffy its insanely sensitive(well the comment was ya don't need any more cyclic and for christ sake turn the pitch down.......) by a very experienced and compotent 3d pilot....
at the time he was grinning like a little boy and shaking like a leaf.......

[kahn10]

with the (kinda) stock motor and 75 amp esc......

[jujiro]

I hope the new bearings give you better results.
I have stripped the 14t,42,61 flying hard at 100% flat, so you might want to go down to a 13t,42,61 and see how that holds up (so far, its been great for me). The 14t was ok for hard sport as long as you don't go too wild, but i wanted a solid combo that would hold up no matter what i did with the sticks. On the plus side, it is harder to bog it with the 13t and the rotor does seem to recover much faster after tail down flip outs.
Sorry to hear about the bearings bro, the only bearings i've ever replaced on my hurris have been the owb's.
Oh..sorry lol.. the Ion paddles are awesome! I took the 20% expo that i was using down to 0% and man does that thing roll and flip. It's super sensitive, but i'm likin' it ;)
*I think you will have another report/review from another helifreak who will be trying those paddles on the hurri soon. :)


sweet going to have to try those paddles as that's what I'm looking for . =D But for right now I'm trying some Trex 600 paddles and flybar, have no idea how that's going to work out. Though that's going to have to wait since I don't have the Bearings in stock and will have to mane an order for them T_T

[xodarap1]

I realize that i haven't posted a video clip for a while so tomorrow whether i can find someone to shoot it or not lol, i'm going to try getting the roll and flip rate uploaded to youtube. The increased rate can get you into trouble at my noob skill level, but it has already saved me from a crash after a failed tail down flip out. They are so good that i would order some for my plastic hurri, but i don't think the frame without Marco's stiffy mod is anywhere near up to the task. :(

[ukgroucho]

if it was simple them the average person could take a heli out of a box and flip and loop the very first time they fly it.. think of it like this... take the average person and stick them in a formula one race car... sure, they can drive fast, but a pro will know how to really drive it to get the best performance out of it.

Sorry mystic but NOPE (bad analogy). F1 cars are just TOO fierce... they have to be driven hard to get the tires warm and generate downforce and GETTING everything warmed up requires significant skill - even then they are a monstrous handful. They stuck a presenter (a pretty competent driver) from the UK TV show "Top Gear" in an F1 car and he could barely get it around the track without spinning out... He was SO frustrated.

The gear stripping thing is still something of a mystery to me - I think the real answer is that there are multiple contributors. Some (if bad ebough) will cause the problem, or multiple a little out of whack will stack up and cause the rot to start.

There was a good set of discussion in the "Where's Jungle Bob" thread and i think the bottom line is that
- you need everything running smoothly - especially all the bearings on the one way shaft (and the bearings in the motor as I discovered)
- gear / pinion mesh is important, too much = bad, too little = bad. It's a pain to set as you need to pull the motor mount out, adjust, put it back in, add the screws / bolts to make sure it's aligned as it will be in flight, check the mesh - and repeat until it's right but it is worth persevering. Just keep re-doing until it is right.
- IMO bigger gears and pinions seem 'better'. I had a lot more success running 13/50t until the worn motor bearing caused issues. Now running 15/60 and after about 8 or 10 flights all is good and I've been pushing reasonably hard.

[mysticmead]

yep.. a pro driver is needed to make a F1 perform (and make it around the track in one piece).. but an average person can get in one and go fast.. while it's true that they'd probably crash.. it's also true that the average person would probably crash trying to fly like justin chi or any of the other pro pilots :D

[BL]

I'm running Z30A 1100, 15/50/20/61, 550mm CF blades, +-11 pitch.
Have tested many times on full pitch climp out and inverter full pitch climp out without problem, and "pop" feeling is really good.:thumbup:

My buddy having the same setup as mine but he has stripped the gear twice, we finally found that the problem was due to the pinion gear not align properly (vertical).
The pinion gear has been set too close to the motor and left about 60%~70% get contact to the front gear. His hurri alive again with 100% contact and good gear mesh, and now he also tested with 14/42/20/61 without problem.

[xodarap1]

OK. I couldn't find a camera person so i used the hood of my car to hold the video camera lol.
Of course, the first attempt at video was so zoomed that you could only see the heli take off and land (yea, what fun!).
The second attempt was too far away that the heli looked like a cx2. So, i posted the third video clip which still isn't great, but at least you can see some of the flight (except for the rolls that never got in frame :roll:). After the third roll and tail down flip, the heli felt "loose". And boy was it!.. there was a flybar complication half way through the flight so i had to make an unscheduled landing heheh.

The clip is at post #173

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=913337#post913337

[bobbybe]

yikes! so maybe you did get the 4mm paddles, unless you forgot to put loktite on the grub screws?

[xodarap1]

No, the paddles locked to the bar fine (they stayed where they were). The flybar itself (with the paddles locked to it) spun where it goes through the cage! :shock:

[bobbybe]

Ooh thats almost worse! nice flyin by the way :fly

[mjdee14]

I was flying a while ago and it got real funky in the air....I landed and one of the paddle was straight up at 90 deg....acting like a wind break......could have been a real horror show and I would have won my club's "crash of the month award" AGAIN !!

[xodarap1]

Thanks Bobby.. i've got a long way to go to get to the skill level i wanna be at, but flying everyday has helped a bunch.

MJ,.. no more crashes of the month awards.. for any of us. ;)

Well, with mixed emotions, i think i'm ready to start trying piro flips but i don't want to try them with the cf hurri or my cf blades.

Since i can do rolls, flips and piro's with the plastic hurri and the wooden blades, would it be ok to practice piro flips with that same setup?
If so, it would save me a bunch of $, as i'm bound to crash it a few times trying to get comfortable at it like in the sim.

Does anyone know how much safety buffer factor is built into the HS rating for wooden blades?
I have seen a pair of wooden blades explode on a heli, but it was because the guy mixed and matched two blades that were from previous crashes..and although the outer covering looked ok.. the wood inside was not.

I know it's not correct and it is frowned upon, but i have run the wooden blades above 2000 HS doing hard sport and they held up fine. I even did a few flights with high stalls into falling tail down flips and there was no boom strike.
Do you think it's possible that the wooden blades are much tougher and perform better than what they are rated for?
I understand that full collective hits are very tough on the heli and blades, but besides hard hits like that, the wooden blades seem pretty decent for hard sport and to me, seem better than their conservative rating.
Does anyone have any good or bad experiences to share running the wooden blades... beyond their rating?

[xodarap1]

I got the response from Benny. I know they don't fly the helis easy.. but i still don't understand how they are getting 2600 HS using 6S (which is what he said they were using) and a 14T with the stock 1500w motor, but.. this is what the man said and i wanted to share it with my fellow freaks:

We are testing a Neu motor right now but all of Justin's flights were on stock Gaui 1500w motor and ESC.

Most of the videos of his H550 flights were done with 14T pinion with 515mm Rototech at 2600 head speed.

We have never broken gears in flight. It is still on the original stock frame. The first time we broke the gear was at the LV funfly. A tooth was broken while the heli was in transit in an airplane. We have been using the new material gear with OK stamp on it.

Benny

www.justinchi.com (http://www.justinchi.com/)