Review/Assembly KDE Trex Tail Upgrades

Finless · 05-25-2011, 08:29 PM

KDE has some new upgrades out which can be a little technical to install. The Trex700 tail control system and the Trex 550/600/700 High Performance tail upgrade.

KDE asked if I would review them and show you all how to install them on your Trex700. No problem! I love KDE stuff

So on with the show. The videos are in 3 parts.

VIDEO LINK -> Part 1 - KDE Trex Tail Disassembly and Assembly of the Upgrade Tail Slider (96 Megs)

VIDEO LINK -> Part 2 - KDE Trex Tail Control Upgrade Assembly (54 Megs)

VIDEO LINK -> Part 3 - KDE Trex550/600/700 Performance Tail Upgrade Assembly (50 Megs)

Enjoy folks!

Bob

KDE Direct · 05-26-2011, 09:18 AM

Hey Bob,

That was great, thank you for the videos! You did an excellent job explaining all the finer details of the install and noted all the things to watch out for during each step. It's easy to see why you are the leader of RC Helicopter videos, you have the talent.

I'll look into the Bearing Holder upgrade and the internal sleeve. As a quick note, rather than trying to use a Soldering Iron to heat the components, a Heat Gun or Butane Torch is a much easier method to use. The team and I simply use a Heat Gun (a cheap one purchased from a local hardware store used to heat shrink-tubing) to heat the Aluminum housing of the Bearing Holder. Once the Loctite gets to the right temperature, it will liquify and the bearings will pop out quite easily without having to damage the bearings. In a pinch, a Lighter also works well at the field.

Then, you can choose to use "The Greaser" to regrease the original bearings, or toss them aside and use the new ones supplied in the kit.

Finless · 05-26-2011, 10:35 AM

I used a soldering iron because that is what most people have. I try to show how to do things with the most common tool. I do have a pen torch and yes I do use that myself for this kind of stuff. Just wanted to show people how to do it with something most everyone has. Yes for the slider the lighter also worked as I showed in the vid. Even then getting a tool on the tiny lip of the inner race past the spacer was a bear. But this is true for many things like getting the bearings out of blade grips etc.

FYI folks in the beginning I said I was going to show the boom supports and take them apart. DONT DO IT! They do not come apart. This is why I did not show this at the end like I said I would.

So just FYI there.

Bob

HeliBenj · 05-26-2011, 04:42 PM

Hey Bob, thanks for the nice vids.

Similar to the Outrage design which I liked on the Velocity.
Will be interesting to know if you can notice any difference in flight in case you had problems with your tail.
Maybe dumb question, did adding a bunch of bearings and ali and screws far off the CoG affect it or is it too small to make any difference?

Ozz58 · 05-26-2011, 05:15 PM

Do they make the tail control system upgrade for the 600 or just the 700?

Looks like a nice and needed upgrade.

Craig

philipfrank · 05-26-2011, 06:30 PM

if they make one for the 600, it should also fit the mikado.

the stock 600 slider works on the logo.

i'll take one.

Finless · 05-26-2011, 07:18 PM

I don't think on a 700 there will be any noticeable difference in CoG honestly. Haven't flown it yet but I bet I wont notice much in that area. I think this tail upgrade will simply be easier on the servo and more reliable as far as wear and building slop. My bell crank was getting pretty loose on the slider ball which is a problem with Aligns design over time. With this upgrade I don't think this will ever build slop unless the bearings wear out.

Bob

KDE Direct · 09-14-2011, 02:42 PM

Finless · 09-14-2011, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kegerator

---

Brain fart? What happend?

Bob

KDE Direct · 09-14-2011, 04:57 PM

Sorry, wanted to correct this before posting again...

Hey Guys -

I was just helping a customer who had a distinct tail wag that he could not get rid of. He had installed the AT700-PTC-V2 design on his brand-new TREX 700E V2 3GX to try and get rid of the tail wag, and no luck. We tried replacing the tail servo, changing settings in the 3GX, and all of these wouldn’t cure the issue…spent a few days and many e-mails looking into this...

Well, turns out there is a design-flaw in the new ALIGN V2 Metal Tail Rotor Holder assembly released separately and with the new "V2" 3GX kits. In the new stock design, a dual-radial bearing is added to further support the tail (similar to the PTU upgrade, just different bearing ordering). What the designers missed is a critical spacer that goes between the outer radial-bearing and thrust-bearing to prevent lockups. Similar to the Main Rotor Assembly, this spacer is critical to prevent the inner-race and the outer-race of the radial bearing from contacting the thrust-bearing washer at the same time. Without the spacer, the assembly may feel smooth on the bench, but once the axial loads are imparted by the centrifugal force of the tail blades, it will lock up in flight and cause severe tail wag issues. Essentially, both the inner and outer thrust-bearing races are locked, and excessive forces are needed to turn the assembly in flight - producing the problematic tail wag.

For the customer, he installed an older ALIGN V1 Metal Tail Rotor Holder he had available with the KDE Direct PTC/PTU-V2 upgrade assembly and the wag immediately disappeared.

smaze17 · 09-15-2011, 11:14 PM

Hello kegerator!

What if I'm using this assembly:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270814908870...ht_2960wt_1037

Still have the problem?

Thx

S

Sirolf · 09-16-2011, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smaze17

Hello kegerator!

What if I'm using this assembly:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270814908870...ht_2960wt_1037

Still have the problem?

Thx

S

Same one i've ordered, these should be OK

Mystic3D · 09-17-2011, 09:34 AM

Another freak in the 700E forum had the great idea and fitted 450 Pro main shaft shims between the radial and thrust. I tried it this AM and fits perfect. Now just need some testing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

xStatiCa · 09-17-2011, 09:40 AM

I thought I found where to buy just the shims but it looks like they were the wrong size. Only way to get the Align spacers is to buy the 450 pro main shafts it seems.

Mystic3D · 09-17-2011, 11:00 AM

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=3252218

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

smaze17 · 09-17-2011, 09:02 PM

Sorry guys I'm lost here. I just bought the V2 tail assembly for my V2 700. What is the mod I should be doing to eliminate wag? Can I simply buy a KDE upgrade to take care o the problem?

Thanks for helping this knucklehead

S

Mystic3D · 09-17-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smaze17

Sorry guys I'm lost here. I just bought the V2 tail assembly for my V2 700. What is the mod I should be doing to eliminate wag? Can I simply buy a KDE upgrade to take care o the problem?

Thanks for helping this knucklehead

S

Maze - No one really Knows Yet. We have theories about the shims, but untill we get a few positive reports back, pretty non conclusive.

The KDE Upgrade does not solve the problem.

Finless · 09-17-2011, 09:27 PM

I cant believe Align messed this part up? Maybe they just forgot to package the shims in the V2 tail kits?

Bob

xStatiCa · 09-17-2011, 09:57 PM

Not to mention they put tail blade bolts in that are too short to go through the plastic of the lock nut. 2 problems with this product.

I had to order 2 18mm bolts because the 16mm that come with it are too short.

smaze17 · 09-18-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by In_to_the_Mystic_2003

Maze - No one really Knows Yet. We have theories about the shims, but untill we get a few positive reports back, pretty non conclusive.

The KDE Upgrade does not solve the problem.

Ok thanks man. Guess I will just take my time assembling the 700 and see what transpires

Thanks

S

05-25-2011, 08:29 PM	#1
Finless Team Taco VP My HF Map location Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Stanton, Ca. USA	Review/Assembly KDE Trex Tail Upgrades KDE has some new upgrades out which can be a little technical to install. The Trex700 tail control system and the Trex 550/600/700 High Performance tail upgrade. KDE asked if I would review them and show you all how to install them on your Trex700. No problem! I love KDE stuff So on with the show. The videos are in 3 parts. VIDEO LINK -> Part 1 - KDE Trex Tail Disassembly and Assembly of the Upgrade Tail Slider (96 Megs) VIDEO LINK -> Part 2 - KDE Trex Tail Control Upgrade Assembly (54 Megs) VIDEO LINK -> Part 3 - KDE Trex550/600/700 Performance Tail Upgrade Assembly (50 Megs) Enjoy folks! Bob __________________ "Don't Taco My Pack Dude!" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* Last edited by Finless; 05-25-2011 at 11:10 PM..

05-26-2011, 09:18 AM	#2
KDE Direct Registered Users Join Date: May 2006 Location: Washington, U.S.A.	Hey Bob, That was great, thank you for the videos! You did an excellent job explaining all the finer details of the install and noted all the things to watch out for during each step. It's easy to see why you are the leader of RC Helicopter videos, you have the talent. I'll look into the Bearing Holder upgrade and the internal sleeve. As a quick note, rather than trying to use a Soldering Iron to heat the components, a Heat Gun or Butane Torch is a much easier method to use. The team and I simply use a Heat Gun (a cheap one purchased from a local hardware store used to heat shrink-tubing) to heat the Aluminum housing of the Bearing Holder. Once the Loctite gets to the right temperature, it will liquify and the bearings will pop out quite easily without having to damage the bearings. In a pinch, a Lighter also works well at the field. Then, you can choose to use "The Greaser" to regrease the original bearings, or toss them aside and use the new ones supplied in the kit. __________________ -- KDE Direct, Inc. --

05-26-2011, 10:35 AM	#3
Finless Team Taco VP Thread Starter My HF Map location Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Stanton, Ca. USA	I used a soldering iron because that is what most people have. I try to show how to do things with the most common tool. I do have a pen torch and yes I do use that myself for this kind of stuff. Just wanted to show people how to do it with something most everyone has. Yes for the slider the lighter also worked as I showed in the vid. Even then getting a tool on the tiny lip of the inner race past the spacer was a bear. But this is true for many things like getting the bearings out of blade grips etc. FYI folks in the beginning I said I was going to show the boom supports and take them apart. DONT DO IT! They do not come apart. This is why I did not show this at the end like I said I would. So just FYI there. Bob __________________ "Don't Taco My Pack Dude!" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.*

05-26-2011, 04:42 PM	#4
HeliBenj Registered Users Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Provence, France	Hey Bob, thanks for the nice vids. Similar to the Outrage design which I liked on the Velocity. Will be interesting to know if you can notice any difference in flight in case you had problems with your tail. Maybe dumb question, did adding a bunch of bearings and ali and screws far off the CoG affect it or is it too small to make any difference? __________________ Ben Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251 DX8, RF6

05-26-2011, 05:15 PM	#5
Ozz58 Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Texas DFW area	Do they make the tail control system upgrade for the 600 or just the 700? Looks like a nice and needed upgrade. Craig __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. T-Rex 600N \| T-Rex 500 ESP \| T-Rex 500 GF \| T-Rex 250 (Love this little bird) \| 15 year old Shuttle ZXX

05-26-2011, 06:30 PM	#6
philipfrank Join Date: May 2004 Location: ft, worth	if they make one for the 600, it should also fit the mikado. the stock 600 slider works on the logo. i'll take one.

05-26-2011, 07:18 PM	#7
Finless Team Taco VP Thread Starter My HF Map location Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Stanton, Ca. USA	I don't think on a 700 there will be any noticeable difference in CoG honestly. Haven't flown it yet but I bet I wont notice much in that area. I think this tail upgrade will simply be easier on the servo and more reliable as far as wear and building slop. My bell crank was getting pretty loose on the slider ball which is a problem with Aligns design over time. With this upgrade I don't think this will ever build slop unless the bearings wear out. Bob __________________ "Don't Taco My Pack Dude!" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.*

09-14-2011, 02:42 PM	#8
KDE Direct Registered Users Join Date: May 2006 Location: Washington, U.S.A.	--- __________________ -- KDE Direct, Inc. --

09-14-2011, 04:57 PM	#10
KDE Direct Registered Users Join Date: May 2006 Location: Washington, U.S.A.	Sorry, wanted to correct this before posting again... Hey Guys - I was just helping a customer who had a distinct tail wag that he could not get rid of. He had installed the AT700-PTC-V2 design on his brand-new TREX 700E V2 3GX to try and get rid of the tail wag, and no luck. We tried replacing the tail servo, changing settings in the 3GX, and all of these wouldn’t cure the issue…spent a few days and many e-mails looking into this... Well, turns out there is a design-flaw in the new ALIGN V2 Metal Tail Rotor Holder assembly released separately and with the new "V2" 3GX kits. In the new stock design, a dual-radial bearing is added to further support the tail (similar to the PTU upgrade, just different bearing ordering). What the designers missed is a critical spacer that goes between the outer radial-bearing and thrust-bearing to prevent lockups. Similar to the Main Rotor Assembly, this spacer is critical to prevent the inner-race and the outer-race of the radial bearing from contacting the thrust-bearing washer at the same time. Without the spacer, the assembly may feel smooth on the bench, but once the axial loads are imparted by the centrifugal force of the tail blades, it will lock up in flight and cause severe tail wag issues. Essentially, both the inner and outer thrust-bearing races are locked, and excessive forces are needed to turn the assembly in flight - producing the problematic tail wag. For the customer, he installed an older ALIGN V1 Metal Tail Rotor Holder he had available with the KDE Direct PTC/PTU-V2 upgrade assembly and the wag immediately disappeared. Attached Thumbnails __________________ -- KDE Direct, Inc. -- Last edited by KDE Direct; 09-14-2011 at 10:21 PM..

09-15-2011, 11:14 PM	#11
smaze17 Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Calabasas, CA	Hello kegerator! What if I'm using this assembly: http://www.ebay.com/itm/270814908870...ht_2960wt_1037 Still have the problem? Thx S __________________ Compass 7HV / AR7200BX / CC ICE2 80HV / Align 700MX / Edge 693FBL Trex 700 Pro / iKON / CC EDGE 120HV / Align 800MX / 3G 700's KDE Blinged Blade 130X

09-17-2011, 09:34 AM	#13
Mystic3D Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Texas	Another freak in the 700E forum had the great idea and fitted 450 Pro main shaft shims between the radial and thrust. I tried it this AM and fits perfect. Now just need some testing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ "If you think you can or you can not you are right" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Goblin Xera 4530, YGE 160,VBar Trex 700E, YGE 120HV,, Xera 4035/,8917/ VBar Diablo, HJive, 4525 Ultimate,VBar

09-17-2011, 09:40 AM	#14
xStatiCa Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Port Richey, FL	I thought I found where to buy just the shims but it looks like they were the wrong size. Only way to get the Align spacers is to buy the 450 pro main shafts it seems.

09-17-2011, 11:00 AM	#15
Mystic3D Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Texas	http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=3252218 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ "If you think you can or you can not you are right" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Goblin Xera 4530, YGE 160,VBar Trex 700E, YGE 120HV,, Xera 4035/,8917/ VBar Diablo, HJive, 4525 Ultimate,VBar

09-17-2011, 09:02 PM	#16
smaze17 Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Calabasas, CA	Sorry guys I'm lost here. I just bought the V2 tail assembly for my V2 700. What is the mod I should be doing to eliminate wag? Can I simply buy a KDE upgrade to take care o the problem? Thanks for helping this knucklehead S __________________ Compass 7HV / AR7200BX / CC ICE2 80HV / Align 700MX / Edge 693FBL Trex 700 Pro / iKON / CC EDGE 120HV / Align 800MX / 3G 700's KDE Blinged Blade 130X

09-17-2011, 09:27 PM	#18
Finless Team Taco VP Thread Starter My HF Map location Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Stanton, Ca. USA	I cant believe Align messed this part up? Maybe they just forgot to package the shims in the V2 tail kits? Bob __________________ "Don't Taco My Pack Dude!" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.*

09-17-2011, 09:57 PM	#19
xStatiCa Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Port Richey, FL	Not to mention they put tail blade bolts in that are too short to go through the plastic of the lock nut. 2 problems with this product. I had to order 2 18mm bolts because the 16mm that come with it are too short.

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