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Old 02-14-2012, 11:18 PM   #1
windwizard
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Default Goblin thread for noobs buying Goblins

Goblins are... how should I put it,... "Fresh meat" being served up at the table of accomplished heli addicts!

But I've just got to believe that there are at least a few new guys (like me) to the hobby, or at least new to "big helis". You know guys who are going to build and fly a Goblin while the learn to do figure eights and loops!

So I wanted to start a thread for newer guys who are also purchasing the new SAB and want to talk "Goblin"

You know, a place for questions and comments about Goblin setups, likes and dislikes and anything else related to the Goblin without the the social stigma of dumb sounding question worked into conversatoin of Experieced Rotorheads flexing their intellectual prowess with one another. If you get my drift.


Let me start:

I like Green, Goblins are Green, and so I must have a Goblin!

Goblins are so big that the tail section will have to be taken off everytime I transport,
I wonder what kind of wear and tear problems this is going to caues?

Scorpion motors are not as effecient as Kontronic motors I don't think but they look a lot cooler... but I dont know what the "LE" designation means for the 4025 -512?

Looks to me like the landing skids are not going to take much abuse where they attatche to the frame when I bounce it hard. (Like I'm not supposed too.)


I want to buy batteries but dont know what brand will fit for sure without modifications


I want to build a setup for the longest flight times with ample power. I am more interested in keeping the bird in the air than... "4 minutes of killer 3d".
Wondering what the best conbination would be?

Lets talk...

Last edited by windwizard; 02-15-2012 at 12:21 AM..
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Old 02-15-2012, 02:39 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windwizard View Post
Goblins are... how should I put it,... "Fresh meat" being served up at the table of accomplished heli addicts!

But I've just got to believe that there are at least a few new guys (like me) to the hobby, or at least new to "big helis". You know guys who are going to build and fly a Goblin while the learn to do figure eights and loops!

So I wanted to start a thread for newer guys who are also purchasing the new SAB and want to talk "Goblin"

You know, a place for questions and comments about Goblin setups, likes and dislikes and anything else related to the Goblin without the the social stigma of dumb sounding question worked into conversatoin of Experieced Rotorheads flexing their intellectual prowess with one another. If you get my drift.


Let me start:

I like Green, Goblins are Green, and so I must have a Goblin!

Goblins are so big that the tail section will have to be taken off everytime I transport,
I wonder what kind of wear and tear problems this is going to caues?

Scorpion motors are not as effecient as Kontronic motors I don't think but they look a lot cooler... but I dont know what the "LE" designation means for the 4025 -512?

Looks to me like the landing skids are not going to take much abuse where they attatche to the frame when I bounce it hard. (Like I'm not supposed too.)


I want to buy batteries but dont know what brand will fit for sure without modifications


I want to build a setup for the longest flight times with ample power. I am more interested in keeping the bird in the air than... "4 minutes of killer 3d".
Wondering what the best conbination would be?

Lets talk...
I will answer some questions...

The landing gear is very strong, what is good about the design that either side fits. So if it does break you can use a left side on a right and can buy separate. The landing gear is also designed to break to prevent the frame from damage.

You can use the Thunder power 65C 5000mah they fit and lower the headspeed for better flight times.

All helis in that size are big at least with the goblin you can easily remove the tail for transport vs some helis you cant. If done properly i dont think you will have wear and tear...Bert has crashed his boom several times hard and still in tact.

Hope this helps
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:33 AM   #3
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I don't think a noob needs to go and buy the most expensive batteries on the planet, ThunderPower 65C. Use HobbyKing 5000mAh Turnigy NanoTech 65C - 130C packs. They will fit (I am using them on my Goblin, so I checked). They are about 1/3rd the price as the TP and just as good IMO.

You will likley crash and damage the packs before their useful life has expired anyway (hopefully not, but likely). Go with less expensive batteries for that reason alone.

Whoever told you the Scorpion is a less efficient motor than the Kontronik lied to you. However, get the Xera 4030/2.5Y-470Kv motor for efficiency, top quality and lowest cost. Using this motor and battery with a nice low headspeed of 1750 to 1800 should give you around 9-10 minute flights depending on how hard you fly circuits / sport fly. You will need the 22T or 23T pinion pulley.

For ESC go with the Castle Creation ICE2 120HV to save money or go with the Kontronik 120HV Jive or even better the YGE 120HV (for V-Bar) for slightly better efficiency (they freewheel, while the CC does not). If you are tight on budget you can use a HV 80 amp Kontronik or 90A YGE ESC with the Xera I referenced. And LE stands for Limited Edition.

For YGE look here
http://www.rotorquest.com/index.php?cPath=978_45_1353

RH is the Kontronik dealer many use.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:44 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexxigpilot View Post
I don't think a noob needs to go and buy the most expensive batteries on the planet, ThunderPower 65C. Use HobbyKing 5000mAh Turnigy NanoTech 65C - 130C packs. They will fit (I am using them on my Goblin, so I checked). They are about 1/3rd the price as the TP and just as good IMO.
.
Agreed. Thunder Power was just an option. Yes the NT 65C will work too and will make things way cheaper. as TP get expensive when you start buying 3- 4 sets.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windwizard View Post
... but I dont know what the "LE" designation means for the 4025 -512?
LE ... limited edition, they don't wind in strands which would be easier. Winding is done using single, thick wires, simplified lower resistance, higher current. Basically all of them (4525/4530/4535) can take peaks up to 300A and beyond...
Those motors are modified to deliver as much power as possible. You want be able to get the same performance from a bigger 5035...


Quote:
Originally Posted by windwizard View Post
Looks to me like the landing skids are not going to take much abuse where they attatche to the frame when I bounce it hard. (Like I'm not supposed too.)
They take much more than it looks like. Those kind of skids are in use since years here in Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by windwizard View Post
I want to buy batteries but dont know what brand will fit for sure without modifications
Just check dimensions, most HK and other brands batteries fit...

Maximum Battery Size: 60mm x 58mm x 350mm

http://www.goblin-helicopter.com/sho...ducts_id=22161


Quote:
Originally Posted by windwizard View Post
I want to build a setup for the longest flight times with ample power. I am more interested in keeping the bird in the air than... "4 minutes of killer 3d".
Wondering what the best conbination would be?
From my older Setups I would use something like 4 - 4500mAh 12s and a Align 700MX 510 or 530KV motor. Esc depends on your preferences, with VBar I would use the new Scorpion Esc or a cheaper option a Fusion Hawk 120HV with external BEC. Simple and good but expensive option would be a PowerJive.
-Klaus
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worldofmaya View Post
From my older Setups I would use something like 4 - 4500mAh 12s and a Align 700MX 510 or 530KV motor. Esc depends on your preferences, with VBar I would use the new Scorpion Esc or a cheaper option a Fusion Hawk 120HV with external BEC. Simple and good but expensive option would be a PowerJive.
-Klaus
I think the CC 120A would be a very good option, logging, bailout and very very configurable. The gov on it, altho not first rate, is very simple the set up. I'm thinking about going CC 120 or 160A for mine.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:27 AM   #7
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You're buying high class heli so I suppose you should use some at least quality stuff.
I would buy Kontronik's JIVE 120 or YGE as they are a reliable brands. Do you know what CC stands for? Castle Cremation!

You can save a lot of money on batteries. You definitelly don't need TP batteries and even 65C isn't necessary. I think 45C is the one you want.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popokatepetl View Post
You're buying high class heli so I suppose you should use some at least quality stuff.
I would buy Kontronik's JIVE 120 or YGE as they are a reliable brands. Do you know what CC stands for? Castle Cremation!
It aint that bad, the new Ice2 collections seems to hold up very well and it holds a tons of features for a very fair price. I'm not gonna spend the crazy money Kontronic charge for one. The middle road would be the Scorpion I think, and the cheapest options seems to the the Platinium Pro. I have 70+ flights on my 600EFL Pro without any issues with my CC, and there are hundreds of us flying them without things going up in flames.
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Old 02-15-2012, 06:21 AM   #9
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I got 25c 5000mah nano techs but I won't be doing aggressive flying, I want to run a low head speed using a 4035- 560kv scorpion motor will the batts be ok and how low head speed would I be able to run and how high?
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Old 02-18-2012, 01:36 PM   #10
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I will be going for the same 4035-560 Scorpion Motor, and after reading the manual, the pinion of choice will be 21? My style will be sport/mild 3D so would like to get the right pinion the first time. If the stock is 22, I should be able to get it in the air no problem? Or should I just try to get the 21 tooth pinion?
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Old 02-18-2012, 01:38 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by dani_rose View Post
I will be going for the same Scorpion Motor, and after reading the manual, the pinion of choice will be either 21 or 22? My style will be sport/mild 3D so would like to get the right pinion the first time. If the stock is 22, I should be able to get it in the air no problem?
I am waiting for an answer also as this will be my setup
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:12 AM   #12
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http://www.goblin-helicopter.com/for...guration-chart
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:15 AM   #13
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Here's the typical setup chart from SAB Goblin.
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:57 AM   #14
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Ya Im still getting all the facts straight in my head concerning motor kva ratings = to rpms. And headspeed calculations based on motor speed and motor pinions and of course the "implied" main gear ratio on the Goblin with all the other gears and belts working togather, oh ya.... not to forget system voltage selections also.

This is what I think is the right head speed calc. for the Scoprion 4035-560 (if it's 90% effecient) w/ v-bar, Jive 120 and 12 cell 35c batteries... set up for longer flight times for the intermediate sport flying NOOB!


19 tooth motor pinion for a 2000 rpm headspeed
Result for calculation from Heli direct calculator:

Estimated lowest voltage during flight: 40,92
Lowest RPM (due to voltage and efficiency) : 1822

For + performance, keep req. RPM below: 1886
For target performance, keep req. RPM below: 1961
For - performance, keep req. RPM below: 2018


So 2000 rpms = reduced performance with increased flight times using 19t motor pinion.

This was my plan untill some one wise and full of years tells me that I am full of crapola!

Looks like the chart in the previous post bears out my plan - Shew dont want to get this stuff wrong it seems to be what will separate out the boys from the men! LoL

(Maybe on a heli this size there is reason for more or less headspeed for cruising around - I dont know, but 2000 rpm seems like a good middle of the road compromise for power to flight time balance?)

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Old 02-19-2012, 07:04 AM   #15
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At least with the TDR 1900 was more than enough to have fun. I think 99% of pilots doesn't need more than 1800rpm on a 700. It's an electric-only frame and with a good gov, there's a stable head-speed from beginning to end... I remember times when 2200 was a lot for a 600-class machine.
Btw the new Voodoo 400 uses 465mm blades and has a specified max rpm of 2200rpm.
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Old 02-19-2012, 07:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worldofmaya View Post
Btw the new Voodoo 400 uses 465mm blades and has a specified max rpm of 2200rpm.
-Klaus
OT but are you sure that isn't a misprint? The Protos stretch with the same blades has 2800rpm as its max and flys great at 2500rpm as a sports flyer, 2200 is where I do my orientation practice.

Back on topic, I agree, I will have 1950 as my IU2 on the Goblin only for when I want it to sing, otherwise most of my flying will be in the 1700-1800 range.

//Dennis.
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Old 02-19-2012, 07:40 AM   #17
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OT, no misprint. The old Acrobat SE (replaced now by the V400) was max 2000rpm. Ploechingers models are really light with long flight time in mind. It's not a smack machine but you can do pretty much everything with even lower headspeeds...
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Old 02-19-2012, 09:41 PM   #18
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Alright guys I hear ya...this is what this thread is for, to figure out "What the GOBLIN" is going on!!


I found this video (posted below) of a goblin doing 3d @ 1600rpm head speed, I dont know what motor is cranking out the power but the bird seems to fly well at lower rpms.

Hey! sounds good to me, it's got to be a little less wear and tear on everything running things a bit slower so I guess that I'm back to calculaing a different motor pinion for my scoprion 4035-560 - good practice right?

So if the Goblin will fly this strong at 1600 rpm why then push it to 1800?

(It is true that it seems to slog along doing it's 3d flight at 1600, kind of looks like what I would expect a gas helicopter to fly like - dont really know though, haven't ever seen one in flight in person.)

1600 rpm Goblin 3d



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Old 02-19-2012, 09:48 PM   #19
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Regarding Motor Pinion Gears,

Looks like the kits only includes one 22t pinion so where are we to order a different pinion from? Heli Direct doesn't have them listed in their online invetory??


Oh ya, I was going to repost the link to the head spead calculator page from HeliDirect for any other noobs needing that information.


http://www.readyheli.com/headspeed-calculator.html
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:35 PM   #20
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You mean MrMELs head speed calc at readyheli... here's a direct link to the Calc... http://heli.dacsa.net/calcv3/Default.aspx

Maybe Helidirect needs some more time to list spare pats. My LHS already has everything listed. Isn't SABs online shop by Helidirect? Isn't there everything listed?
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