better tail control

[nessie]

Hi,

I am looking for a better tail control on my G5. sometimes in "big" lateral manoeuvers, the heli turns around (half turn). most of the time it's perfect (piro flips, fast backward, funnels), but in large latteral funnels, it unhooks, especially when there is a little wind.

on my other helis (450, 500, 600), I have not this problem. just on my G5.

I've tried :
- ds760 / s9257 , beastx v2 / s9257.
- different distance between ball link and tail servo center
- different gain (low and high)
- upgrade tail pinion to 12T

each time, I can improve a little bit, but it is still not perfect for my taste.

next things I would like to try :
- tail blade grip flip
- longer tail blades (which ones ?)
- higher belt tension

has anyone tried these solutions ?
any other idea ?

thanks...

[3Dmuse]

CF tail push-rod?

http://helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=982920&postcount=5

[nessie]

I forgot to say I already have a carbon tail push rod (made with a MSH Protos 500 tail rod). I did this mod on all my 450 helis.

[Flexis]

Most likely your tail is just running out of thrust and can't compensate anymore.
You could try some longer tailblades or some more headspeed.
Is it bogging while you do these moves, then the tail could also loose too much thrust from bogging so you might need more power or a better (setup) governor.

Have you tried more heading hold gain on your gyro (in V-bar for example this is I-gain, in Beastx this is parmeter D, the spartan also has it but I don't know what it's called)

It's the heading hold gain part of the gyro that tries to well, hold the heading.
The conventional gain tries to dampen the smaller movements in the tail.
So if you are getting a fast wag and back of you gain you have maxed out the conventional gain but it might be you have some heading gain in reserve so increasing that individually might help.

I hope this makes sense, my native language ain't english so this is the best i could explain it.

[nessie]

Originally Posted by Flexis

Most likely your tail is just running out of thrust and can't compensate anymore.

that is really what it feels like.

head speed is governed by a jazz 40-6-18. For one year I was at around 2400 rpm, and now I've moved to 2500 rpm. motor nevers bogs, even at full pitch 12° / scorpion 2221-1630 / 10T.
in large latteral manoevers, motor is not much stressed, but tail is.

I think longer tail blades would be a good option too.
any advice on which longer tail blades would fit in G5 tail ?

thanks for your advice on gyro heading hold gain.
I'll try it on the beastx (v2).

[branflake12]

maybe try a 450Pro grips/hub (with the integrated chinese weight mod) or do your own weight mod? It doesnt sound like your servo is running out of "grunt", but you have already headed down the path of "try everything" so i thought id add it in.

[3Dmuse]

Have you tried these tail blades?

http://helidirect.com/rg50518cf-real...2mm-p-7893.hdx

[branflake12]

or maybe KBDD's? I have no idea how the stock plastic stack up against either barzaun's carbon or the kb's, but again, people seem to like em.

[nessie]

kbdd plastic tail blades are a lot smaller, and they did not do the job on my other 450. I had to put G5 blades on the other 450 to have a perfect tail.

Originally Posted by barzaun

Have you tried these tail blades?

http://helidirect.com/rg50518cf-real...2mm-p-7893.hdx

I've got those blades in stock, but despite what is written in product's notice, they have a smaller surface than stock plastic ones. so I did not put them on until now.
maybe I should try anyway. that's an easy mod.
maybe carbon will behave better than plastic in high pitch area, despite the smaller surface.

[nessie]

I've tried the carbon tail blades this morning.

despite their smaller surface (smaller than plastic stock tail blades), they behave better in tail control.

smoother, and more reliable in large funnels.

increased gyro gain (+ 5%), and incresead beastx pot 3 gain too (1/8 turn).

tail was very good, in this "no wind" conditions : fast backward, large hurricanes, large funnels, or chaos were ok.

I'll post some report when I'll try with a bit of wind.
thanks for your help sofar.