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Electric Motors Winding and Repair Electric Motors Winding and Repair Discussion


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Old 02-07-2012, 10:04 AM   #1
ZuvieleTeile
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Default HK-4225 12N10P Winding Project

Since we have our own, new forum here, I would like to start with the HK-4225 winding project.

Please, anyone, who interested, may chime in and post his pics, tools, ideas, winding schemes etc.
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Last edited by ZuvieleTeile; 02-08-2012 at 12:12 PM.. Reason: To avoid confusion
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:03 PM   #2
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pm received ZuvieleTeile thanks for that.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:05 PM   #3
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HK-4225 winding
may want it to be a specific and generic at the same time.

YY schematic Star (Wye) with 1.3 to 1.7 mm winding seems like the most common type judging by other more experience guys.



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Originally Posted by ZuvieleTeile View Post
Since we have our own, new forum here, I would like to start with the HK-4225 winding project.

Please, anyone, who interested, may chime in and post his pics, tools, ideas, winding schemes etc.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:25 PM   #4
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Are there any videos or step by step tutorials on this process and whats involved?
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:49 PM   #5
ZuvieleTeile
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I gave it a try yesterday with a 1.06 wire. (@ HeliFX 1.3 or more will give you bloody fingers)
Just a few winding to see how it works.
Huuhh, not so easy.
The insulation paper, which I used, was way too stiff. I measured about 0.25mm.
Secondly, my, with hard work prepared pliers, which I thought to be terrific, damaged several wires at the top.
I tried to squeeze the wires together and the highly polished pliers slipped off.

I learned from Stolla and a winding video, that you better have some prepared small pliers, which are recessed and have a longitudinal groove to catch just one wire.
Have to work on that one now.

I am still trying to comprehend the different wining schemes.
I could just copy what Mauro or Stolla did, but that's not good enough for me.
I know, that Jives like the YY winding (essentially 2 motors on one stator, just connected in parallel)
I learned, that, if you wind in those groups of two, one has to be cw and one ccw. doesn't matter which one is which, as long as you do all the groups of 2 the same.
I saw, at the Croco site, Stolla, Dekker and Mauro like to use the outside jump to the other (2nd) tooth of the group. This is more difficult, because you have to thread the wire for the second tooth, but it leaves more room in the slot for additional windings (or zick-zack), if you go for a lower Kv.

I am 80% there, (at least in the theory of it) but still are a little bit confused on what creates the North or South pole.
Is it the direction of the current, the winding direction on the tooth or a combination of it.
I read a million times through my notes from last year and the powerditto sites, but . . .
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:41 PM   #6
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the only video I have is this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=302YFyp53lQ#!




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Are there any videos or step by step tutorials on this process and whats involved?
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_M View Post
Are there any videos or step by step tutorials on this process and whats involved?
for 12N10P YY winding you can follow this site:
http://www.scorpion.powercroco.de/12N10P4225Kit.html


schematic:
http://www.powerditto.de/schemamodus12N_YY2.html

for 525/V (jive) or 550 (yge) you need 6+7 turns YY.
easy to wind with 1,25mm; normal with 1,32mm; possible for good winders 1,4mm wire on 4225 kit.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blades_Cuts View Post
These are variants that may be decided according to your own preference, and purpose. Both will run fine if done properly.

We should be posting pictures by now and telling about our findings with our experiment. Start with basic schemes. Don't be too concerned about complex schemes for now. You will advance to that level in time.
bc,
right!

stolla,
if you wind a shape with wide open slots and maximum copper filling you will appreciate the outside jump wire for holding back all the copper into the slot!
thatswhy i prefer this variation of winding.

it is all the same (first picture):
http://www.powerditto.de/schemamodus12N_YY2.html

yours is the red, mine is the blue and others use the green variation.
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:12 AM   #9
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Tnx Ralph that makes sense, must say i find blue to look neater on the "pretty" side than red because on red the jump forces the first turn on the second slot at an angle.
While i have your attention Ralph, for our typical 12 s systems runing 65 c lipos is it really beneficial to wind with the thickest wire you can get in the motor?
In other words will we notice increase in power between 1.32 and 1.4mm wire on 4225, or will the difference only show up way beyond what we can "feed" the motor with our typical setups, i.e jive 120 on gov etc
I like to find a compromise between wire thickness and cooling hence my question
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:07 AM   #10
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the printed C rate is only advertising!
up today I found no cell, which was able to give 80% of the printed on it capacity with more than 35C without overheating.
this is easy to make for the dealers - which customer has the possibility to use a 4000mAh cell p.e. with 45 or 60C ?
these are 180Amps or 240Amps!
to check it out, you need a powersystem, what can resist the needed amps for a longer time (just like our speedflight setups)

so the battery is the real bottleneck, never a motor like rewinded 4035 (V3!) or 45xx type.

the difference you only can find at really high amps.
there are only a few pilots outside, who are able to use the additional performance.

the best solution is, if the heat won't be produced.
so it is better to lower the internal resistance as good as possible for high output setups.

for only flying with 10-20Amps around, a smaller and weaker motor will be a better choice.
why?
try to understand these curves:
http://www.powerditto.de/EtaAuslegung.html

up to 35Amps the motor of type 2 (not so much copper, slower spinning) is the better one.
at 40Amps you will find the cross-over between type 2 and type 5(maximum copper, higher spinning) and then the difference will grow up.
at 100Amps you just have 15% difference in eta.
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Old 02-10-2012, 08:21 AM   #11
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Very interesting curves.
If I read those right, the motor with a optimal copper filling (like # 5) will produce more heat at lower demand, let's say at 25 Amp, than a average motor like # 2, because its best eta is at about 75 amps.
For us, that means we have to make our motor choice dependent to our flying style.
Flying gently around and doing soft 3-D with a beast motor, just converts more energy into heat.
I knew this would be expensive.
We have to have more helis with different setups or need to switch our powertrain consisting of a optimal ESC/motor combo according to our style, or mood for that day.
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZuvieleTeile View Post

Is it the direction of the current, the winding direction on the tooth or a combination of it.
I read a million times through my notes from last year and the powerditto sites, but . . .
It's the direction of the current. Which way it actually turns is dependant
on the direction of winding...as you know, doesn't matter which way just
be consistent.
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