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Electric Motors Winding and Repair Electric Motors Winding and Repair Discussion


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Old 02-23-2012, 03:22 AM   #1
powercroco
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Default flat (rectangular) wire

new made by holger:



not easy to do.
the wire will try tu turn itsself and the layer-jump is ahard to do without injuries in wire insulation.

also the "geometrical factor" becomes more interesting - it fits good into a slot or not.

we just tried this some years ago and forgot it, because of the wire was not to get for our small needs.
here with 1,7x1,7 square, second from lefthandside (2007):



he said, the 50xx shape will fit to his 2,5x1,2mm wire very good.
I think, we will get a result soon.

the minimum win by using one flat instead of 2 round wires is 21,5% square (only the filled middle between the 2 rounds + all, what the corners have more than the circle.
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:08 AM   #2
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This so interesting as myself and a friend discussed making a roll press to make our own flat wire, problem was about damaging the coating.
Where do you get this wire Ralph, i'd like to do a motor this way for sure!
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:16 AM   #3
powercroco
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I got the square from ebay and the flat from holger.
he has a big roll gotten from a professional motor winding company.

its the biggest difficulty to get it in small amounts...
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:23 AM   #4
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Ok thanks, will do some research
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:27 PM   #5
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interesting i always wonder if flat wire could be used for winding and sure enough it could.
thought it be easier but sounds like it can be just as difficult.

have a question perhaps someone can advise if its good or not.

is it possible to very slightly heating the copper wire with a heat gun to assist when wrapping or is this bad idea ?
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:19 AM   #6
powercroco
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not good idea.
try it, and you will see: it doesn't help.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:34 AM   #7
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if anyone your definitely the person who would know

thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by powercroco View Post
not good idea.
try it, and you will see: it doesn't help.
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Old 03-31-2012, 04:32 PM   #8
powercroco
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to wind a flat wire is almost the same as a round one.
every experienced winder can do it.
in winding you only have to take care, that the wire won't spin itsself into the slot.

the bigger challenge is to find the best size for a special statorshape in a small amount.
so we found our own way to get flat wire in the wanted size.
so we are able to make the best fitting wire, if there is need.

here is a 4540 with flat wire winding.
it is 4+4 and I don't think, someone will feel a difference to round wire, because of the part of copper generated losse in the loss-mix is just very small.

stolla, mauro, dekker, you should try it, its fun anyway.

here is the 4540:



some more (more ugly) windings you can find on my website - also on pyro.
my next project will be 3x2mm square on 7050.


btw slowflyworld sells flat wire (2,5x1,2) for privat use:
http://slowflyworld.de/artikeldetails.php?z=2&kat=HeliFlyWorld~Flat-Wire%20%26%20DIY&bez=Flat-Wire
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Old 03-31-2012, 05:40 PM   #9
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I like this a lot and would love to give it a try.
What rectangular wire would I need for my upcoming 4530 project (n spec 500)?
It does not need to be cooling optimized, but it would be nice to have.
I could not find these windings on your sites, do you have a link?
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Old 03-31-2012, 05:56 PM   #10
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dekker,

you find some at this link

http://www.tuning.powerditto.de/powerpyro.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by _Dekker View Post
I like this a lot and would love to give it a try.
What rectangular wire would I need for my upcoming 4530 project (n spec 500)?
It does not need to be cooling optimized, but it would be nice to have.
I could not find these windings on your sites, do you have a link?
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Old 04-01-2012, 05:22 AM   #11
powercroco
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you also can have a look here
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powercroco View Post
to wind a flat wire is almost the same as a round one.
every experienced winder can do it.
in winding you only have to take care, that the wire won't spin itsself into the slot.

the bigger challenge is to find the best size for a special statorshape in a small amount.
so we found our own way to get flat wire in the wanted size.
so we are able to make the best fitting wire, if there is need.

here is a 4540 with flat wire winding.
it is 4+4 and I don't think, someone will feel a difference to round wire, because of the part of copper generated losse in the loss-mix is just very small.

stolla, mauro, dekker, you should try it, its fun anyway.

here is the 4540:



some more (more ugly) windings you can find on my website - also on pyro.
my next project will be 3x2mm square on 7050.


btw slowflyworld sells flat wire (2,5x1,2) for privat use:
http://slowflyworld.de/artikeldetails.php?z=2&kat=HeliFlyWorld~Flat-Wire%20%26%20DIY&bez=Flat-Wire
Ralph, you have a devil tempter!!! you write that is possible buy flat wire from holger? have a website of this? good availability from slowflyword, but i'm interested to different size...
Ciao
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Old 04-01-2012, 08:22 AM   #13
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Thanks for the info Ralph would really like to do one, perhaps the pyro800, would be fun!
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:14 PM   #14
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speaking of flat magnet wire found these guys in the US if anyone is interested.

http://www.mwswire.com/

they carry flat and small quantities/spools are available !

just not sure if they have the necessary spec.
perhaps someone with more knowledge regarding flat wire can check there site under
"square magnet wire"
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:19 PM   #15
powercroco
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the smallest is 1,6mmx 1,6mm - thisone should be usable.
the second smallest is 1,8mm x 1,8mm - almost to big, may be good for 50mm or bigger shapes.
the rest is imo unusable for our purposes.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:38 PM   #16
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ah that's too bad they don't carry more variety.

1,6mmx 1,6mm possible with pyro or strictly speaking large motors ?

I noticed the usable gauge is more like 2.5 x 1.2 mm for pyro.


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the smallest is 1,6mmx 1,6mm - thisone should be usable.
the second smallest is 1,8mm x 1,8mm - almost to big, may be good for 50mm or bigger shapes.
the rest is imo unusable for our purposes.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:54 PM   #17
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How about this one.
Couldn't find the data on a quick search.
Will call 'em up.
At least there is some available in our beloved 15 to 20 AWG range. . .
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:59 PM   #18
powercroco
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yes, these will fit much better!

the hardest thing in using square wire is, to prevent the spinning of the wires (itsself).
you have to check it very often.
if not, you will loose the possible advantage.

this square wire could be the better solution.
in the flat wire winded motors we just found some unexpected effects - we don't don't really know yet, whats the reason.
But I won't speak about details before we have checked it with more different motorwindings.
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:08 PM   #19
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Is that a US source ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZuvieleTeile View Post
How about this one.
Couldn't find the data on a quick search.
Will call 'em up.
At least there is some available in our beloved 15 to 20 AWG range. . .
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:17 PM   #20
Justin Stuart
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What kind of special tools do you use to get the wire to bend so perfectly?
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