Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect
START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Henseleit


Henseleit Henseleit Helicopters


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-21-2012, 01:50 PM   #121
maui80
Registered Users
 
Posts: 24
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Italy
Default

Hi what the price for the bell conversion?

Is possible buy One with shipping in italy?
maui80 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 12:04 AM   #122
TomC
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Default

I don't mean to rain on anyones parade but this belt mod looks like a recipe for disaster imho. The belt pulley ratios are way too high (72/16 = 4.5:1). By comparison, the SAB Goblin is 60/22 = 2.7:1

The main problem with high pulley ratios is that the contact area on the small pulley becomes too small (not too many teeth of the belt actually on it). This is going to require pretty high belt tension which will result in pretty poor belt life, poor eff/power, and high motor temps. The fact that this mod uses a wider belt, compared to the Goblin may help a little bit.

For your sake I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

Cheers,
TomC
__________________
Blade pQZ,nQX,mCPX-BL,450x,500x Bell 222(bd3sx),550x(bd3sx)
TT X50E, 10s, HC3-SX
Ion-x, Actro 32-3, SS, 10:1, PJazz esc, 10s

Last edited by TomC; 03-26-2012 at 04:27 PM..
TomC is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 01:40 PM   #123
osat
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Slovenija
Default

There is no problem to run down to 13T pinion because there is belt tensioner. I`m flying it with 14T pinion for one year and no problem at all.
osat is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 04:30 PM   #124
TomC
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by osat View Post
There is no problem to run down to 13T pinion because there is belt tensioner. I`m flying it with 14T pinion for one year and no problem at all.
So, you have been running this belt mod for one year now with a 14t motor pulley and 72t secondary pulley (~5:1 ratio) with no problems?

Cheers,
TomC
__________________
Blade pQZ,nQX,mCPX-BL,450x,500x Bell 222(bd3sx),550x(bd3sx)
TT X50E, 10s, HC3-SX
Ion-x, Actro 32-3, SS, 10:1, PJazz esc, 10s
TomC is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 12:05 AM   #125
desertstalker
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomC View Post
So, you have been running this belt mod for one year now with a 14t motor pulley and 72t secondary pulley (~5:1 ratio) with no problems?

Cheers,
TomC
See http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.ph...7&postcount=44 and following

There is an idler pulley to make the belt wrap farther around the motor pulley, so shouldn't be an issue with contact there. The Protos uses a similar setup and gets around 6:1 (IIRC) without issue.
__________________
-DX8
-MSH MiniProtos Stretched, SK720, DS95/DS95i, Hyp 4S 25C 2500mAh
-MSH Protos Stretched, Brain, Hyp DS16/BLS251, 6S 3000mAh
-Goblin 500, HC3SX, Hyp DH16/MKS980BL, Scorp 4015-1100
desertstalker is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 02:21 AM   #126
TomC
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertstalker View Post
See http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.ph...7&postcount=44 and following

There is an idler pulley to make the belt wrap farther around the motor pulley, so shouldn't be an issue with contact there. The Protos uses a similar setup and gets around 6:1 (IIRC) without issue.
Thanks desertstalker. To be honest I did not see this idler, lol! Should help quite a bit. Still going to need quite a bit of belt tension and hence belt and bearing wear may be an issue in the long run imho.

I have looked at and flown a local guys Protos 500 and as much as I don't like belts, I had to agree that it seemed to work fine. Not sure how the Protos 500 design (~1.5kw power) is going to translate to much larger 8-10kw power heli's though? Guess we'll find out with the Protos 700!

Thanks again and cheers,
TomC
__________________
Blade pQZ,nQX,mCPX-BL,450x,500x Bell 222(bd3sx),550x(bd3sx)
TT X50E, 10s, HC3-SX
Ion-x, Actro 32-3, SS, 10:1, PJazz esc, 10s
TomC is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 09:18 AM   #127
mkovalcson
Registered Users
 
Posts: 12,788
 

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Knoxville, TN
Default

Frankly I think the Protos design starts to lose its appeal in a larger heli.

I really like it for a beater heli as it is very easy to repair and pretty bulletproof, but it doesn't have long flight times.

In a larger heli I think efficiency is more of an issue.
__________________
Mark

Enjoying all my helis
Current focus: Fly, Sim, and Design/Build my perfect charging box.....
mkovalcson is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 03:42 PM   #128
helicraze
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,783
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Victoria, Australia
Default

I could not believe how it does not spin easily (protos), the 700 main gear can used as a serving platter
helicraze is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 07:54 PM   #129
mkovalcson
Registered Users
 
Posts: 12,788
 

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Knoxville, TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by helicraze View Post
I could not believe how it does not spin easily (protos), the 700 main gear can used as a serving platter
I was just getting excited about bringing my TDR in after 5 minutes of flight at 48% throttle and having 72% left in the batteries!!!! Looks like I can fly at this setting for 10 minutes and not be in danger. Very Cool!!!! It responds very well at this speed but it not hyperactive. It's actually very relaxing and confidence building to fly at this speed. I think I'll hang around at this speed for a month or two before bumping it up to 60% throttle.

My Protos 500 is spent at about 4.5 minutes and typically comes back at about 3.8V, but it's running a pretty hot head speed.
__________________
Mark

Enjoying all my helis
Current focus: Fly, Sim, and Design/Build my perfect charging box.....
mkovalcson is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 02:40 AM   #130
TomC
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by helicraze View Post
I could not believe how it does not spin easily (protos), the 700 main gear can used as a serving platter
Ya, I'd hate to have to auto one in!

BTW, how free-wheeling is Craig's TDR (with this belt mod) compared to stock? Also, compared to your now broken-in Goblin? Thanks.

Cheers,
TomC
__________________
Blade pQZ,nQX,mCPX-BL,450x,500x Bell 222(bd3sx),550x(bd3sx)
TT X50E, 10s, HC3-SX
Ion-x, Actro 32-3, SS, 10:1, PJazz esc, 10s
TomC is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 06:01 AM   #131
helicraze
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,783
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Victoria, Australia
Default

The TDR with belt free wheels fine as far as i know. The goblin not very well, due to belt and brass bush surrounding one way
helicraze is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 06:42 AM   #132
TomC
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Default

None of these belt drives are going to free-wheel as well as a properly meshed geared system imho. Same goes with a belt vs a TT tail.
TomC is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 07:29 AM   #133
helicraze
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,783
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Victoria, Australia
Default

A first stage belt drive has no effect on drag in an auto, the 2nd stage that spins in an auto is a pinion and gear one both tdr and goblin.
helicraze is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 09:30 AM   #134
HSC
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Slovenija
Default

Well boys, I have belt drive hear and it works pretty fine for 30 starts (just read out j_log files), but I do not have particulary strong motor (rewinded MX 700 ), only 8kw in spikes.
There is plenty of mashing hear thanx to bigg diameter tensioner, soo no problems at all with jumpowers !
I have now tension set too 80 N and it works prety fine ( data sheet for belts say 150N, but I thing is a bit too much).
The true is wee have tested several diferent producers of belts, some are good (dinadrive and contitech) some not soo ( 3M ).
Soo up to date works for mee just fine.......
__________________
A je to ?
HSC is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 01:55 PM   #135
TomC
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by helicraze View Post
A first stage belt drive has no effect on drag in an auto, the 2nd stage that spins in an auto is a pinion and gear one both tdr and goblin.
Your right mate. I was still thinking about the Protos, lol! Just the belt-driven tail like on the Goblin (or Diablo) is going to adversely effect the auto, esp. if the belt tension is a little high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HSC View Post
Well boys, I have belt drive hear and it works pretty fine for 30 starts (just read out j_log files), but I do not have particulary strong motor (rewinded MX 700 ), only 8kw in spikes.
There is plenty of mashing hear thanx to bigg diameter tensioner, soo no problems at all with jumpowers !
I have now tension set too 80 N and it works prety fine ( data sheet for belts say 150N, but I thing is a bit too much).
The true is wee have tested several diferent producers of belts, some are good (dinadrive and contitech) some not soo ( 3M ).
Soo up to date works for mee just fine.......
Good to hear it's going well and you are experimenting with diff belts. Your large idler (tensioner) is a good idea, as is your wide belt, but it still will require a fair amount of belt tension which is going to adversely effect overall eff's and belt life. If you could do a few logs before/after you might see this diff. I'd still expect motor temps to be a bit higher as well. Please let us know how the next 30 flights go. Thanks.

Cheers,
TomC
__________________
Blade pQZ,nQX,mCPX-BL,450x,500x Bell 222(bd3sx),550x(bd3sx)
TT X50E, 10s, HC3-SX
Ion-x, Actro 32-3, SS, 10:1, PJazz esc, 10s
TomC is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 06:22 AM   #136
johnjonfenomenon
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,817
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA
Default Can someone help me with calculating the HS

Ok so my name came up on the list to buy one .. Now based on my calculations using the ready heli HS calculations and the info provided to me the main gear is a 72t and the pinion option is (14,15,16) Given this calculation with the stock pyro 700-52 setup using a 12s 45c battery, the lowest hs on a 14t to be 3764.. Can soeone explain to me what I am missing or actually calculate for me the best pinion option to obtain HS of 1450 - 2150. This will be governed by a helijive 120.

Thanks,
John
__________________
After every crash just remember .. “We can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him better than he was. Better..stronger..faster.” Intro from Six Million Dollar man

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr. 1/11/94 - 9/5/2013
johnjonfenomenon is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 06:34 AM   #137
AcidDrink
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjonfenomenon View Post
Ok so my name came up on the list to buy one .. Now based on my calculations using the ready heli HS calculations and the info provided to me the main gear is a 72t and the pinion option is (14,15,16) Given this calculation with the stock pyro 700-52 setup using a 12s 45c battery, the lowest hs on a 14t to be 3764.. Can soeone explain to me what I am missing or actually calculate for me the best pinion option to obtain HS of 1450 - 2150. This will be governed by a helijive 120.

Thanks,
John
Two stage power drive.
Please refer to the post below for correct info.
__________________
TDR/VBar
Logo 600SX 12s VBar
MSH MINI PROTOS/CGY750

Last edited by AcidDrink; 04-06-2012 at 08:41 AM.. Reason: gave wrong info
AcidDrink is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 06:58 AM   #138
johnjonfenomenon
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,817
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidDrink View Post
Two stage power drive.
Put main gear size 160.65 and all will start to make sense.
Thanks Thats the number I was looking for.
__________________
After every crash just remember .. “We can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him better than he was. Better..stronger..faster.” Intro from Six Million Dollar man

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr. 1/11/94 - 9/5/2013
johnjonfenomenon is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 07:14 AM   #139
Stolla
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Port Elizabeth South Africa
Default

That will only help with the stock gear not with the 72t belt, formula for belt (and gear)
72(belt teeth) divided by pulley t count (16 tpulley =14tgear) x 2,55 will give you the correct ratio. For the pyro you want 16t.
Stolla is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:39 AM   #140
AcidDrink
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolla View Post
That will only help with the stock gear not with the 72t belt, formula for belt (and gear)
72(belt teeth) divided by pulley t count (16 tpulley =14tgear) x 2,55 will give you the correct ratio. For the pyro you want 16t.
That's correct. Sorry, I shouldn't reply to posts when I am half asleep.
__________________
TDR/VBar
Logo 600SX 12s VBar
MSH MINI PROTOS/CGY750
AcidDrink is online now        Reply With Quote
Reply




Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Henseleit


Henseleit Henseleit Helicopters

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Copyright © 2004-2011 - William James - Helifreak.com