Perhaps a sensitive question...

[Stumblebee]

One cannot help but notice something about our lipo batteries. While they are very popular for our hobby and in some cases expensive, none are made by the North American battery manufacturers. You don't see for instance, the "Duracell" or "Eveready" name on our lipos. I am curious why? I can speculate that the reason has something to do with environmental concerns associated with the manufacturing process. I don't think the raw materials are that hard to come by in North America though I could be wrong on that one. If there are environmental concerns, does anyone know what they may be? Are we as hobbyists planting the seeds of yet another environmental disaster? I am nobody's tree hugger but I am curious as to why the North American battery manufacturers are not present in what appears to be a lucrative market.

[dtabuenc]

Originally Posted by Stumblebee

One cannot help but notice something about our lipo batteries. While they are very popular for our hobby and in some cases expensive, none are made by the North American battery manufacturers. You don't see for instance, the "Duracell" or "Eveready" name on our lipos. I am curious why? I can speculate that the reason has something to do with environmental concerns associated with the manufacturing process. I don't think the raw materials are that hard to come by in North America though I could be wrong on that one. If there are environmental concerns, does anyone know what they may be? Are we as hobbyists planting the seeds of yet another environmental disaster? I am nobody's tree hugger but I am curious as to why the North American battery manufacturers are not present in what appears to be a lucrative market.

I don't think it has anything to do with environmental concerns. The hobby LiPo market is extremely small compared to the market for alkaline batteries and other rechargeable batteries for consumer electronics. It's just probably not a great use of their capital to get into that market when there is already quite a bit of competition.

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by Stumblebee

I am curious as to why the North American battery manufacturers are not present in what appears to be a lucrative market.

I think you over estimate the buying power of the RC modeling community. In the grand scheme of things, we are small potatoes. Even top shelf products in our hobbies with price some see as outrageous are not making the owners millionaires.

As to why there aren't any LiPo factories in the US, not sure. But I think it safe to say it may be related to the same reasons there are fewer and fewer manufacturing plants in the US of any kind. Everyday I see someone come on these forums, shopping only on price. Not caring for where the product was designed or manufactured. US laborers cost more. Manufacturing in the US will also cost more than a less regulated country. Because oft this, every time we choose a product solely on price we are likely not selecting a product made in the US.

If you look at TP as an example. Cells are made overseas. But they are applying a US style process to increase consistency and reliability of the product. The process itself adds cost, as does the labor for the TP employees. Yet we constantly see modelers saying its not worth the extra money. Choosing instead vendors which may or may not send a good product and may or may not stand behind their products.

[The WoodCrafter]

I think it has to do with costs.
Little heavy or high tech manufacturing is done in the Americas any more.
WAY, WAY , WAY cheaper to manufacture in foreign countries where labor is dirty cheap, laws don't exist that adds tremendous costs to a manufacturing plant and some have foreign government support.
Our country has been buying more and more from overseas and it will only get worse.
With some of the crazy laws we have it is no wonder we can't compete any more.

[Stumblebee]

It goes without saying that globalization has wrecked havoc on at least the incomes of workers involved in the entire North American manufacturing sector. North America pushed for globalization and they got it, in spades. As I understand it, lipo manufacturing is largely an automated process like the rest of battery manufacturing so there is not that much labor involved. I have no idea how many lipos are sold in North America each year. I suspect that with an average lifespan of 2 to 3 years, there is not the turnover to make it a hgihly attractive investment opportunity if one were to focus strictly on the hobbyist market with a North American business mindset. On the other hand, I doubt that the management at the overseas manufacturers are homeless and hanging out at food banks. I accept the positions stated here and suspect that they are part of a greater answer.

[desertstalker]

Not to mention that making a LiPo is completely different to any kind of battery those companies make. Much more complex, quite frankly i doubt they have the expertise available, or any interest in obtaining it, they prefer to sell the same low-tech cells they always have at large markups.

[dtabuenc]

Originally Posted by Stumblebee

It goes without saying that globalization has wrecked havoc on at least the incomes of workers involved in the entire North American manufacturing sector. North America pushed for globalization and they got it, in spades.

The U.S. is in no position to complain. People who think U.S. manufacturing is dead aren't aware of the reality. U.S. manufacturing over the last 40 years has gone up up up and up. We are manufacturing more today (even during this recession) than we did 10 years ago. The U.S. has been the unchallenged king of manufacturing forever. Only for the last decade has China even begun to catch up, and only recently have they even gotten fairly close. This isn't even too impressive, considering that China has more than 4 times the population.





I feel no more moral obligation to give my money to a worker in Detroit than a worker in Beijing. A person is a person, and the guy in Detroit is no more related to me than the guy in Beijing. In fact, on a purely "needs" basis, China needs my money way more than the U.S. does ( China GDP per capita is < $8,000 vs U.S of >$45,000). So keep making those cheap LiPos China, you got a long way to go to catch up!

[ahahn]

Originally Posted by dtabuenc

...<snip>.....
I feel no more moral obligation to give my money to a worker in Detroit than a worker in Beijing. A person is a person, and the guy in Detroit is no more related to me than the guy in Beijing. In fact, on a purely "needs" basis, China needs my money way more than the U.S. does ( China GDP per capita is < $8,000 vs U.S of >$45,000). So keep making those cheap LiPos China, you got a long way to go to catch up!

And I''m sure that guy in Detroit has no qualms either about giving his hard earned cash to you either---by the way, what industry do you work in?

And the beauty of this is that we can all aspire to the $8000 GDP figure in the future. Won't buy too many Lipo's though!

[dtabuenc]

Originally Posted by ahahn

And I''m sure that guy in Detroit has no qualms either about giving his hard earned cash to you either---by the way, what industry do you work in?

I'm in software.And by all means, if the guy in Detroit can get my product cheaper and better from somewhere else he should do so. It is my job to make my product a good enough value proposition.If I don't, it's not his fault, and he shouldn't be guilted into buying from me simply because I happen to live in the same country.

Originally Posted by ahahn

And the beauty of this is that we can all aspire to the $8000 GDP figure in the future. Won't buy too many Lipo's though!

That's not true historically. It's not a zero-sum game. It is more likely that china can look forward to $40,000 GDP figure than the other way around. Consider that in the last decade China's per-capita GDP has more than doubled from < $4000 to > $8000. Has this come at the expense of US GDP? No! At the same time US GDP per capita has grown from 34,000 back in 1999 to 47,200 in 2010 almost a 13,000 increase (that's more then 3x the increase that china did in that same decade).

[The WoodCrafter]

dtabuenc,

Those that sure is a pretty graph and interesting figure you have.
Has any of it been corrected for inflation?
I think a per capita graph would show a different picture.
And is the graph sales of U.S. companies that manufacture overseas?
Either way I am not buying the picture you present.
I have seen too much in my little corner of the world (SoCal) to beleive it.

[dtabuenc]

Originally Posted by The WoodCrafter

Those that sure is a pretty graph and interesting figure you have.Has any of it been corrected for inflation?I think a per capita graph would show a different picture.

Yes, all numbers I posted are inflation adjusted.

Originally Posted by The WoodCrafter

And is the graph sales of U.S. companies that manufacture overseas?

The numbers I posted were U.S inflation-adjusted GDP per capital which is defined as all final goods/services produced by workers and capital located in the U.S. (regardless of ownership). That would include some foreign companies but only the portion of their goods manufactured in the U.S. (A lot of the Japanese car makers actually build here and that would be included, but the number would not include products made by U.S. companies overseas).

Originally Posted by The WoodCrafter

Either way I am not buying the picture you present.I have seen too much in my little corner of the world (SoCal) to beleive it.

I'm not selling a picture. I'm just pointing out the realities. All these numbers are easy to lookup from many official sources. My point is just to help shine a light on the common misconception that the U.S. does not manufacturer anything anymore, and everything comes from China. This is not true at all.

We have a pretty big trade deficit with China. That's true. But if you add up all the imports from china, the total is an amount equal to less than 3% of GDP. Also keep in mind, that out of every dollar you spend on goods manufactured in china, more than 50 cents stays in the U.S. to pay marketing, distribution, delivery, storefornts, etc....