Good bye Logo 400 SE

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by maarset

Looks like the crash was on page 32?

Sensor Connection broken error concerns me. This is a vbar mini right? I would post the error log on the vbar forum and maybe mrmel will look at it. And oh yes lots of static hits. Again sorry about the crash. But at least we can get to the bottom of this so it won't happen again. Chin up


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

This is not the mini. It is the VBAR “Blueline” 5.2 Express (Full size) with a separate sensor. I used this because I was told this heli had vibe problems in the upper mount area.
Rick

[Kalpazan]

So, any word from MrMel ?

[Kalpazan]

So, any word from MrMel ?

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by Kalpazan

So, any word from MrMel ?

Not yet. The suspense is killing me ...

[el guapo]

Originally Posted by rdlohr

. I see lots of sensor Data checksum errors. I'm not sure what all can cause that.

if you see "Data Checksum" in your log it means static discharge. if you get too many "check sum" errors the vbar will act like the sensor is disconnected.

Check sum is a math trick used to verify the data from the sensor is not corrupted. this is standard practice with good electronics. when you see "check sum error" it means that the controller looked at the sensor data and decided it was corrupted. and it will discard that data and wait for good data. if a few packets of data discarded, its no big deal. but if all the data is discarded, then the controller is flying blind.

I had the same issues with my logo 600.

[Redlight11]

+1 to static being the issue. I had a few data checksum errors on my 600se this winter. After grounding, the tail kicks and error messages disappeared. However I would wait for word from the Vbar Yoda ( Mr. Mel) before closing the case.

[maarset]

Originally Posted by Redlight11

+1 to static being the issue. I had a few data checksum errors on my 600se this winter. After grounding, the tail kicks and error messages disappeared. However I would wait for word from the Vbar Yoda ( Mr. Mel) before closing the case.

Yah MrMel would be able to tell you if the unit needs servicing or not.

[DominicD]

Rick tell me when it's not too early to kick you when you are down.

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by el guapo

if you see "Data Checksum" in your log it means static discharge. if you get too many "check sum" errors the vbar will act like the sensor is disconnected.


Check sum is a math trick used to verify the data from the sensor is not corrupted. this is standard practice with good electronics. when you see "check sum error" it means that the controller looked at the sensor data and decided it was corrupted. and it will discard that data and wait for good data. if a few packets of data discarded, its no big deal. but if all the data is discarded, then the controller is flying blind.

I had the same issues with my logo 600.

Thanks. I appreciate the input since you guys have more experience with these logs.

I am familiar with checksums. I assumed that error would be kind of a catchall for anything that corrupted the data stream. I just wasn't sure what all would produce them. For instance, if a sensor was faulty, had a bad connection, or the internal sensors had come loose from their mounting, could that corrupt data as well?

Also, I assume some errors cause other errors and can therefore make the logs a bit misleading if you don't fully understand what they are telling you.

I didn't really expect static buildup to produce such continuous errors. I would have expected periodic bursts of errors around when a discharge occurred (tail kick or shutter), or a reset for instance.

I'm impressed with the logging that is done. Is there documentation on line somewhere that further decodes the info in the logs and give examples?

Rick

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by DominicD

Rick tell me when it's not too early to kick you when you are down.

I'm thinking you missed your opportunity. I'm pretty much over the pain at this point. Sorry,

But feel free to give a kick, just in case, rodent... hehe

Rick

[Kalpazan]

I am thinking about the "Sensor Connection broken" error. It should not happen even in a static discharge situation. Why don't you try to power up the V-Bar unit on the bench and try to shake the sensor by hand. If it is a bad wiring it should be noted in the log.

I am not aware of any detailed explanation of the log entries except those in the PDF file.

[rdlohr]

Yep. You are thinking like I am. I'm going to hold off until I hear from Mr. Mel for a little, but then I plan to try exactly what you said. I'll also try some vibration, pulling out antenna wires, sensors wires and whatever I can to get a good handle on how this logging stuff works.

[el guapo]

Originally Posted by rdlohr

Thanks. I appreciate the input since you guys have more experience with these logs.

I am familiar with checksums. I assumed that error would be kind of a catchall for anything that corrupted the data stream. I just wasn't sure what all would produce them. For instance, if a sensor was faulty, had a bad connection, or the internal sensors had come loose from their mounting, could that corrupt data as well?

Also, I assume some errors cause other errors and can therefore make the logs a bit misleading if you don't fully understand what they are telling you.

I didn't really expect static buildup to produce such continuous errors. I would have expected periodic bursts of errors around when a discharge occurred (tail kick or shutter), or a reset for instance.

I'm impressed with the logging that is done. Is there documentation on line somewhere that further decodes the info in the logs and give examples?

Rick

I have a silly amount of industrial automation, RF system development experience. but I have no inside info on the circuitry in the Vbar, its just a box to me, this is just a hobby for me, thus its pure conjecture on my part..

if you have a heart attack, a symptom is your left arm goes numb.... obviously if you sit on your hand it can go numb without the heat attack.

but, if you vbar has check sum error its probably static. it the canary in a coal mine...if you use the search feature, you see two common issues. 1 motor bolts shorting the coil of the motor and 2 static. its always some form of electrical glitch.

its dry and its winter. prime conditions for static..

anyway... below is a link to my thread... with my log... . you'll see the same errors in my logs.. my heli tried pretty hard to kill it self. but I saved it. I added the ground wire and removed the aluminum pulleys, then it was fixed. it is easy for me to accept the correlation of the failure mode at face value, although I was skeptical until it was fixed.. you planted your heli, so its hard to test.


http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=369934

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by el guapo

I have a silly amount of industrial automation, RF system development experience. but I have no inside info on the circuitry in the Vbar, its just a box to me, this is just a hobby for me, thus its pure conjecture on my part..

if you have a heart attack, a symptom is your left arm goes numb.... obviously if you sit on your hand it can go numb without the heat attack.

but, if you vbar has check sum error its probably static. it the canary in a coal mine...if you use the search feature, you see two common issues. 1 motor bolts shorting the coil of the motor and 2 static. its always some form of electrical glitch.

its dry and its winter. prime conditions for static..

anyway... below is a link to my thread... with my log... . you'll see the same errors in my logs.. my heli tried pretty hard to kill it self. but I saved it. I added the ground wire and removed the aluminum pulleys, then it was fixed. it is easy for me to accept the correlation of the failure mode at face value, although I was skeptical until it was fixed.. you planted your heli, so its hard to test.


http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=369934

Thanks for the link. It helps to see other logs. The data is starting to convince me that my crash was indeed static related as many of you say. I look forward to Mr. Mels input. He must be either very busy or on Vacation of something.

Rick

[MrMel]

It's a tell-tell sign in the log how static looks like.
Sorry about the crash but Logo 400 needs grounding.
Even though in theory the black belt should not need it, it does, mine does not fly well a single flight without grounding, I broke it inflight and the result could have been the same as above but I saved it.

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by MrMel

It's a tell-tell sign in the log how static looks like.
Sorry about the crash but Logo 400 needs grounding.
Even though in theory the black belt should not need it, it does, mine does not fly well a single flight without grounding, I broke it inflight and the result could have been the same as above but I saved it.

Thanks. So you reviewed my log and you concluded that my crash was most likely static related?

Is there anything on line which explains log files?

Edit: I just saw your note regarding PMs in your sig. I had no idea. What is the best way to contact you?

[Bullfrog98]

Best way to get hold of Mr Mel is just to post your log in the Logo or vbar forum.

He is like the all seeing eye of Sauron, nothing escapes his gaze

[MrMel]

Originally Posted by rdlohr

Thanks. So you reviewed my log and you concluded that my crash was most likely static related?

Is there anything on line which explains log files?

Edit: I just saw your note regarding PMs in your sig. I had no idea. What is the best way to contact you?

Yes that log is what i referred, 99% chance there is static, you could get same effect from a broken cable or motherboard but it would have to be broken 'just right' which is FAR more uncommon plus then i would see other things.

So ground the boom



I have turned off PM but you as hf support can override

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by MrMel

Yes that log is what i referred, 99% chance there is static, you could get same effect from a broken cable or motherboard but it would have to be broken 'just right' which is FAR more uncommon plus then i would see other things.

So ground the boom



I have turned off PM but you as hf support can override

OK, thanks for all your help. That tells me enough that I will consider rebuilding.

Rick

[Laurens]

Only quitters gonna quit Rick;-)