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Flight Stabilization Flight Stabilization


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Old 05-14-2012, 06:25 PM   #321
Ivor Hill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayray View Post
Hello Ivor. I have a problem, I hope you recognize it. I have a 450 with flymentor and turnigy 9x TX. I think it's a setting in kds software. My heli will hover at full throttle about 8 inches off ground. I can not get any higher then that. Everything seems appropriate I think in the TX settings.do you recognize the problem?
What is the pitch set at in Helibal under control tab, default is 100.
Post your throttle and pitch curves.
Use a pitch gauge to check how many degrees of pitch you are getting at full stick.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:40 PM   #322
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I am getting off work in an hour I will check and post it thanks.
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:25 PM   #323
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Yes check your pitch at full throttle. It shd show around 10-11 +ve degree. If you have good pitch but you can only still hover at the same altitude, I think the problem might be in your tx settings for the Turnigy 9x. If any of your buddies have a head speed measuring device,, use that to check your headspeed. If the head speed is too low, it could be your throttle curve or expo/dr setup in 9x setup wrongly. As I understand, FM does not influence your throttle curve as channel 3 of the Turnigy 9x is not plugged into FM.
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:31 PM   #324
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Hello I got your request and am home now I shot 1 short video, I hope this helps.
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_u...?v=v85SJ4V-btI
And also the blade pitch with sticks at mid stick are level with swash plate. I don't have a pitch Gage.
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:41 PM   #325
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Actually I myself need some help in stabilizing my heli while hovering. If any of you can recall, I did at one time solve the problem of my heli doing a rock n roll motion forward n backwards. Now the motion happens with the heli hovering well in one position, but while hovering stationery the tail boom will wag up n down repeatedly. While sometimes the wagging will stop, occasionally it will still wag. I have adjusted the FM gain n also the tail gyro gain, but it makes no difference. The rotor head does not wobble n I just recently changed the thrust bearings n main shaft bearings. It is also confirm that the main shaft rotates without any wobble. Feathering shaft r new including the dampers.

I thought I solved this problem previously by loosening the blade grip on the main blade grips, but the solution only solved this problem for a short while n now the heli is doing a rock n roll anytime I hover. Pls advice, as I do not want to go buy the full Align headset which cost a lot of $$$$. Thx
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:22 PM   #326
batman72
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Hello I got your request and am home now I shot 1 short video, I hope this helps.
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_u...?v=v85SJ4V-btI
And also the blade pitch with sticks at mid stick are level with swash plate. I don't have a pitch Gage.
Jay I don't see anything wrong with your FM settings. The only thing you might want to do is increase your Pitch on Servo tab in Helibal from 40 to max. This will cause your servo arms (all 3 servo arms) to move up n not horizontal when u have your throttle stick at midway. However this will force your heli to increase its pitch.

Just to share with you my pitch curve setup, at zero throttle, my main blades are at around -ve 4 degrees pitch. At midway range for throttle stick, pitch is around +ve 3 degrees. At full throttle, my blade pitch is at +ve 12 degrees. Of course you can control the sensitivity by using DR or dual rates so that the heli does not be too responsive for newbie pilots like me. I fly around 75% of my maximum throttle using EXPO/DR settings on my Turnigy 9x Tx with ER9x firmware upgrade using dual rates.

To make a heli fly upwards, there are two things: your blade angle (pitch) which pushes air downwards n gets the heli into the air n the speed the blades are rotating. At zero pitch, how fast the blades rotate the heli will never fly. At +ve pitch 1-2 degrees, your heli would just hardly taking off even at full throttle. I assume your blade pitch might be around 2-4 degrees at full throttle which does not provide enough lift.

Go invest in a pitch gauge or go borrow one. I don't know how you can build a heli without knowing what your blade pitch is. Try the above n let us know if your heli flies higher.
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:52 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by batman72 View Post
I've successfully repaired my heli (after 2 weeks since the major crash n waiting for parts), and also during this period, I was able to flush my Turnigy 9x tx to that of ER9X firmware. Initially, setting up the Tx was hard, but after going thru the online ER9x manual and also a short tutorial on how to setup ER9x for helis, it was a breeze setting up this tx.

Let me share my findings on how to setup ER9X with FM here. I am also using this space as a backup storage in case I accidentally deleted my settings from the tx.

The most important of setting up FM is again the swash mixing. By default ER9X does not come with any mixing to each of the 8 channels provided by the Tx. So here are the steps.

This tutorial is with the assumption you know how to navigate thru the different menus on ER9x. This setup was done on the HK450GT PRO from Hobbyking, using a Mystery 40A ESC, Turnigy 2218 motor, HKT900 Servos, Turnigy 9x Rx and build in gyro of FM.

Step 1
~~~~~
1. Goto Setup Menu 03: Setup a new Model for your FM. I called mine FM450.
2. The rest of the menu settings can be found in the manual and not important in setting up FM.

Step 2
~~~~~
1. Goto Curves Menu (7/10).
2. Set the following throttle curves
-------CV1 => -100 -15 0 50 100
-------CV2 => -100 -100 -100 -100 -100
3. CV1 is for your normal throttle curve. If you want to use a 9 point curve, goto curve 9 and above.
4. CV2 is for your throttle cut switch. That is why all values are negative 100.

Step 3
~~~~~
1. Goto Limits Menu (6/10)
2. Set all limits from -100 to 100.

Step 4 (most important step)
~~~~~
1. Goto Mixer (5/10)
2. Follow the following settings:-
CH1 100% AIL
CH2 100% ELE

CH3 100% THR C1
R 100% THR THR C2

CH4 100% RUD
CH5 100% P2 ON
CH6 100% THR
CH7 100% P3 ON
3. CH 5 is the tail rudder gain which is assigned to Hover knob on top right of Tx.
CH7 is to control the gain for FM to be in Balance or Position mode. This is assigned to Knob PIT TRIM which is on the left of the Tx facing you.
4. If you do not know how to setup the above on the mixer, go read the ER9x manual.

Step 5
~~~~~
1. Now plug your FM into the computer and configure following Ivor's guide. If the servos are reverse, just reverse their direction from Helibal.
2. It is up to you if you want to setup EXPO/DR on your Tx, I have done mine to provide 3 level of sensitivity for the servos and throttle which is assigned to the F.MODE 3 way switch on the right of the Tx.

If you are still confused on what I am writing above, you have to read the ER9x manual. Your knowledge on the ER9x is too shallow if you do not understand the above.

My next experiment would be to find out how to setup FM to work with ER9x for inverted flight. Although I am not a 3D pilot, I was just thinking of finding it out whether it is possible to do invert flying on Flymentor. I heard people have done it, but I don't really see how I can really set this up correctly on FM. Anyone has done it before, please provide suggestions or tips.

As for the first few test flights, the heli flew awkardly in hover. Then it started to do rock n roll moving forward and backwards. Well, to solve it, I loosen the main tail blade screw a bit (blade grip too tight) and that solves the rock n roll.

After hovering with 5 Lipo packs, the heli has broken in and was flying pretty steady and FM was working like a charm. I could virtually let go of the cyclic and throttle stick and the heli stays put. I have this time, arranged the wires of the servos properly, as my previous crash was caused by some lost of control from Tx to Rx due to overlapping servo wires over the Rx antennae. With the Mystery 40A's SBEC @ 4A, 5.5v, I am pretty sure FM and the Turnigy Rx and all Servos are receiving healthy current and voltage. The beautiful part about the mystery 40A is it is small enough to tuck right under the battery tray inside the body of the HK450GT PRO. Now I can mount my Align Canopy properly into the heli. I would suggest anyone to go buy that ESC, smallest I can find and has super soft start. I love it.

I can't wait for this weekend (tomorrow) to fly my e-circuits again. I got a total of 9 Lipo packs which should last me around 1.2 hours of flight time using a 11T pinion (yes I downgraded from 13T).
I will make some extra adj. In the flymentor, and do a test fly tommarow. Any other ideas in the meantime is appreciated. Batman75 I have considered changing the firmware to ER9x, but have been nervous to. What was the main reason you did it? And now that you have done it what is the main difference you like and dislike?
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:40 AM   #328
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Jay, the reason I upgraded to ER9x was becoz it has more functionality. Furthermore the firmware is regularly updated by a dedicated community, hence u can get updates very frequently. The firmware provides almost endless configuration n things like having 9 point throttle curves is amazing (even the Dx6 has only 5 I think). There is so much extra settings that it makes the original 9x firmware look lame. The ability to have up to 16 virtual channels n switches makes the 9x Tx really customizable. However, the downside is it is not as intuitive as the 9x firmware n there is no fail safe settings. But other than that, the ER9x turns what is already a good Tx to be an even better one.

With ER9x, pairing it with Flymentor took some experimenting work which resulted in the settings shown on my previous post. However, the ability to for example have countdown timer start when you push up your throttle stick, ability to fix the switch error of the original firmware when the Tx was switched on, the ability to program the Tx to default certain switches like throttle cut to be off by default, the ability to allow sub trims to be programmed fine n superfine settings, the ability to have telemetric view of Tx status, ability to recalibrate all sticks and knobs, ability to assign a beep when your knobs are centered are a few of the things you can get by upgrading to ER9x.

However I would suggest you solve your heli problem first before upgrading.

Last edited by batman72; 05-15-2012 at 03:54 AM..
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:43 AM   #329
Jayray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivor Hill View Post
What is the pitch set at in Helibal under control tab, default is 100.
Post your throttle and pitch curves.
Use a pitch gauge to check how many degrees of pitch you are getting at full stick.
Ivor, In heli all it is set to 100 in control tab for travel. My throttle curve is set to 0,25,50,75,100 my PIT Curve is 50,55,62,75,100 in my TX.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:47 AM   #330
Jayray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batman72 View Post
Jay, the reason I upgraded to ER9x is becoz it has more functionality. Furthermore the firmware is regularly updated by a dedicated community, hence u can get updates very frequently. The firmware provides almost endless configuration n things like having 9 point throttle curves is amazing (even the Dx6 has only 5 I think). There is so much extra settings that it makes the original 9x firmware look lame. The ability to have up to 16 virtual channels n switches makes the 9x Tx really customizable. However, the downside is it is not as intuitive as the 9x firmware n there is no fail safe settings. But other than that, the ER9x turns what is already a good Tx to be an even powerful monster.

However I would suggest you solve your heli problem first before upgrading.
If you were going to upgrade again what steps or videos would you watch again or read what to make it the easiest. In case I wish to do it later. Thanks. I understand since you have done it already you have a better insight then prior the upgrade.
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Old 05-15-2012, 03:26 AM   #331
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The videos n all related files can be found on the official ER9x site.

http://code.google.com/p/er9x/

All instructions are inside. As a summary you need to:-

1. Mod your Tx. Videos are in the website. You will need the Amtel programming USB adapter to flush the EEPROM of your Tx. You will have to be good with the soldering iron though. You can buy the USB adapter from Hobbyking. It's the same adapter which programs the quad copter main board.

2. Install the drivers for the Amtel USB adapter on your PC. Drivers can be obtained from the site.

3. Install Eepe software. Also found from the site. This app allows you to backup your original 9x firmware to your PC and flush the new ER9x firmware back into the Tx.

4. Download the latest firmware binary. Make sure you save it as a .hex file.

5. Again there are videos on the website which teaches you how to flash the firmware.

6. Once ER9x has been installed, download the tutorials on how to setup ER9x for heli. Download the ER9x manual n learn how to navigate n what each menu is for.

7. Setup your heli with ER9x without FM to familiarize yourself on ER9x n how it affects your heli's servos, throttle, etc.

8. Once you understand what each menu option is for and what it does to your heli, now install FM n follow my guide on how to setup the channels.

9. Remember my setup is for the HK450GT pro with Hextronix HKT900 servos. If you have a different setup you might need to adjust the direction settings for each servo. Rule of thumb, setup the servos first n make sure it is going the right direction. You will need to experiment partly but the main focus is on setting up channel 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6 as shown in my guide. I know the mixer does not make sense like assigning channel 6 which connects to the HK450Pro's front right servo (looking at the heli from the tail) to the Throttle stick but that's how it functions with FM.
Bottomline, my setup guide is assigning one servo movement for each direction of stick movement which is sort of like disabling swash mixing. Please note in ER9x, I found out that even when you select 120 for Swashtype, the three servos which controls cyclic will not function like it is suppose to using ER9x as compared by default using the original 9x tx firmware. In ER9x you still need to manually setup the mixer for each channel for the cyclic.

I hope to make a video one day and upload this n share it.
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:44 PM   #332
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Ok, I took my heli out again and still at 3/4 throttle it still barely lifts. I don't have a pitch gauge but I downloaded an app.and measured and these are the results. Sitck position bottom 1.1, mid stick level, stick on top 8.5 degrees. I shot 2 quick videos. Big time differance with the upward position and downward position.
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_u...?v=kyJBwGQoLOg
And
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_u...?v=-cuhpx0LzrU
Thanks for the help.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:24 PM   #333
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When measuring your pitch, please ensure your fly bar is horizontal.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:30 PM   #334
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Thanks for the FlyMentor post Ivor
Easy to follow how-to which saved me alot of time and now just a couple tweaks with the settings she flys great.

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Old 05-16-2012, 12:47 AM   #335
Jayray
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I redid it making sure flybar was straight the new pitches are low stick 0 pitch, mid stick 1.1 degrees 11.69mm, high stick 8.2degrees 85.91mm.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:33 AM   #336
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Looks like not enough pitch to me. At full throttle, you are only taking 8.2 degrees (not sure how come u have mm as the pitch is measured from the angle of the blades to horizontal plane (flybar plane)). Hence if you have your throttle at 3/4, your pitch (assuming linear pitch curve) should be around 5 degrees which is about right for you to hover a few feet above ground. Alternatively, you might want to get a more powerful motor, one that is 3550kv and above.

If you want more pitch, you will now need to make your swatch plate go higher up the main shaft by maybe 0.5cm without moving the position of the servo arms. To do this, extend the length of your connecting link rods (those 3 metal pipes which connects your servo to the swashplate) on all 3 servos with equal length by about a few mm longer, making sure that the swashplate is still level to the ground after you have made the servo links longer.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:18 PM   #337
Ivor Hill
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If the servo arms are at 90 degrees with the throttle at mid stick and the throttle curve at 50 at mid stick and you have 0 pitch, then the heli is set up mechanicaly set up correctly. You should not have to adjust links that is not the answer it would also put the swash out of position at mid stick.
What is the distance from the centre of the servo pivot points to the centre of the ball joints ?. Should be about 14 mm if it is less than this then move the balls out.
You can also increase the amount of pitch a bit by increasing the pitch value under the control tab.
Change your pitch curve to 50-62-75-87-100.
Not able to watch the vids a pic may be usefull.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:21 PM   #338
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Thanks for the FlyMentor post Ivor
Easy to follow how-to which saved me alot of time and now just a couple tweaks with the settings she flys great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v04kO0XrQoM
Well done you seem to be having fun.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:20 AM   #339
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Default Cyclic pitch

I have a 450 clone and when setting up FM should I be setting up the cyclic pitch as well or just leave the swash setting's at 100
Dan
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:31 PM   #340
Ivor Hill
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I have a 450 clone and when setting up FM should I be setting up the cyclic pitch as well or just leave the swash setting's at 100
Dan
Fitting FM will put the swash a little out of position and the software should be used to correct it. But normally pitch is ok, check it with a pitch gauge.
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