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Old 06-05-2012, 09:49 AM   #1
profilefan
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Default What are some beginner 3D moves to start with?

I don't think flips, rolls, and inverted flying are considered 3D moves, are they?

What are some beginner 3D moves to start with? I was told doing rainbows are a good start.

Thanks,
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:34 PM   #2
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I've heard that if you are comfortable with flips, rolls, and inverted flying, then you are ready for "3D". I guess you could add flying in reverse, and inverted reverse flight to that list.

I totally suck at my 3D attempts and I can do tic-tocs, rainbows, and tornados (hurricanes), so those three are probably not too hard to learn. (and I can not fly inverted or in reverse, at least not for very long!)

There are lists out there. I found one that does not have difficulty ratings, but some do.
http://www.clevelandheli.co.uk/Glossary.htm
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Old 06-05-2012, 03:00 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by rojack View Post

There are lists out there. I found one that does not have difficulty ratings, but some do.
http://www.clevelandheli.co.uk/Glossary.htm

Thanks Rojack, found a similar list with diagrams,
http://www.rchelicopter.co.uk/moves.htm
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:14 PM   #4
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There's been many debates what constitues "3d" and all of it is just subjective opinions. Don't worry about if what you're doing is 3d or not, just aspire to fly how you want to.

Beginner moves in general:
  • Backwards flight
  • Funnels
  • rolls, loops, and flips
  • nose in movements (not just hovering)
  • controlled piroetting
  • well controlled and stable circuits fast AND slow
Intermediate
  • Half flips
  • tic tocs
  • everything above while inverted
  • transitions
Advanced
  • Anything that is a derivative of half flips
  • rolling circles
  • more advanced piro flips
  • piro loops
  • piro circuits/funnels
Just to name a few things to work on...
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojack View Post
I've heard that if you are comfortable with flips, rolls, and inverted flying, then you are ready for "3D". I guess you could add flying in reverse, and inverted reverse flight to that list.

I totally suck at my 3D attempts and I can do tic-tocs, rainbows, and tornados (hurricanes), so those three are probably not too hard to learn. (and I can not fly inverted or in reverse, at least not for very long!)

There are lists out there. I found one that does not have difficulty ratings, but some do.
http://www.clevelandheli.co.uk/Glossary.htm
I say : tic toc's are hard to learn and are really confusing !!!

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Old 06-06-2012, 03:25 PM   #6
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I would suggest piro moves upright and inverted are a pre-req - master stationary slow,med, and fast piros upright and inverted - really opens up your flying fast.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RĒzĒ View Post
There's been many debates what constitues "3d" and all of it is just subjective opinions. Don't worry about if what you're doing is 3d or not, just aspire to fly how you want to.

Beginner moves in general:
  • Backwards flight
  • Funnels
  • rolls, loops, and flips
  • nose in movements (not just hovering)
  • controlled piroetting
  • well controlled and stable circuits fast AND slow

Thanks for this, I have a lot to work on............
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:32 PM   #8
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I really like Raza's answer to your question and would like to expand upon it more;

As I moved into intermediate flight (with some "3D" moves) I noticed I hadn't really ever been using my rudder DURING my maneuvers. Of course, one rudders on controlled turns, but with flips, loops, and rolls there isn't necessarily any rudder input. Most people finish the maneuver first then use the rudder to correct the final orientation.

Full 3D maneuvers require cyclic, collective AND rudder input. I made my biggest advancement in skills when I started funnels. This was the first time that I had to focus on rudder control as well as cyclic and collective.

After practicing funnels for many flights, I found that all of my other maneuvers benefitted. I started using rudder more on loops to keep them centered. I love ranibows and small rudder corrections really helped keep them linear and on plane. And a new maneuver emerged: 180 and 360 rotations on the top of loops! My mind has become more aware of this 4th control input, whereas before I was pretty much all "right stick".

Also, "collective management" is way more than just a casual statement. Exercises that stress precision collective inputs are quite helpful.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:07 PM   #9
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try anything and everything in the sim. we all learn different things at different times. i learned tic toc before nose in
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RĒzĒ View Post
There's been many debates what constitues "3d" and all of it is just subjective opinions. Don't worry about if what you're doing is 3d or not, just aspire to fly how you want to.

Beginner moves in general:
  • Backwards flight
  • Funnels
  • rolls, loops, and flips
  • nose in movements (not just hovering)
  • controlled piroetting
  • well controlled and stable circuits fast AND slow
Intermediate
  • Half flips
  • tic tocs
  • everything above while inverted
  • transitions
Advanced
  • Anything that is a derivative of half flips
  • rolling circles
  • more advanced piro flips
  • piro loops
  • piro circuits/funnels
Just to name a few things to work on...


Damn, it will take me years to learn how to complete beginner section....
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manhoimanh View Post
Damn, it will take me years to learn how to complete beginner section....
+1 Same here ;-) I believe it was raza who posted a reply to "what is 3d" where he cleanly defined it based on stick movements. 1d = changing one stick at a time (flips), 2d = coordinating two sticks (tic-tocs), etc. I think my heart broke when I learned that funnels (which took me, oh I don't know, FOREVER to learn) are 0d
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:26 AM   #12
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+1 Same here ;-) I believe it was raza who posted a reply to "what is 3d" where he cleanly defined it based on stick movements. 1d = changing one stick at a time (flips), 2d = coordinating two sticks (tic-tocs), etc. I think my heart broke when I learned that funnels (which took me, oh I don't know, FOREVER to learn) are 0d
No wasn't me. In fact I've never tried to define what 3d is as everyone's opinion on the matter is pretty different. But by the definition you've provided funnels are most certainly 3d. In fact any moving maneuvar of any kind will require to some degree a balance of collective, rudder, aileron and elevator which makes all flying 4d lol.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RĒzĒ View Post
No wasn't me. In fact I've never tried to define what 3d is as everyone's opinion on the matter is pretty different. But by the definition you've provided funnels are most certainly 3d. In fact any moving maneuvar of any kind will require to some degree a balance of collective, rudder, aileron and elevator which makes all flying 4d lol.
I'm sorry I attributed it wrong. In this fellow's definition, small adjustments don't count - which I suppose one could argue with. So this means any kind of move where *only* small corrections are required is 0d - e.g., circuits, funnels (included inverted). It got me thinking, which I appreciated.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:05 AM   #14
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I'm sorry I attributed it wrong. In this fellow's definition, small adjustments don't count - which I suppose one could argue with. So this means any kind of move where *only* small corrections are required is 0d - e.g., circuits, funnels (included inverted). It got me thinking, which I appreciated.
Well any circuit is constantly USING rudder and elevator (or aileron for funnels) not just making small corrections on them so at the very least you have 2-axis (sticks) being used. It's all bs anyways. 3D is what you want it to be. Helis can somewhat arbitrarily move in 3d space and have a full 6 degrees of freedom (roll, pitch, yaw, forward/back, left/right, and up/down) which to me makes any flying 3d flying.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Well any circuit is constantly USING rudder and elevator (or aileron for funnels) not just making small corrections on them so at the very least you have 2-axis (sticks) being used. It's all bs anyways. 3D is what you want it to be. Helis can somewhat arbitrarily move in 3d space and have a full 6 degrees of freedom (roll, pitch, yaw, forward/back, left/right, and up/down) which to me makes any flying 3d flying.
Excellent points! And your comment about helis' ability to arbitrarily move in 3d is exactly what I tell others. I say that helis can sketch an arbitrary path in 3D space, and this is the closest thing to real magic that you might find. If you think about one thing that magicians try to give the illusion of, it's "action at a distance" or Psychokinesiswhere you control a physical object with your mind with nothing in between. But we do this for real! From thinking to fingers to flight - it's really profound when you think about it. At least it is to me.
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Old 07-08-2012, 07:10 AM   #16
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it's "action at a distance" or Psychokinesiswhere you control a physical object with your mind with nothing in between. But we do this for real! :
That's funny ... because I actually fly my helis with the force.

My dx7s is just a dummy TX so everybody "thinks" I'm actually flying... "normally."

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