Weird one

Volcano · 07-12-2012, 01:11 AM

Ok I rebuilt after the belt flipped. Im having in flight issues similar to too high gain. I set one of my vbar banks at a lower gain of 70 and did a tail drop and it blew out, in the same flight as it ocillating.
SO I took it home and did vbar vibe analysis, it shows a spike, but not necessarily bad according to mr Mel. So I replaced the whole tail, boom , belt, and tail- same spike at 10,000 rpm and worse actually, originally it was 690 max and now it got bad at 1000. the gain used to be 75 and fine, I turned it down to 73, then at 70 the tail blows out. The tail gets oscilating during funnels and fast tail slides. And while doing this the tail wags violently on my carpeted floor. It may have been doing this stuff before the belt flipped? But I thought it was sorted with turning tail gain down.
Before crashing I had little outrage blades, and replaced them with big twee blades postcrash, turned the gain down after having issues like now. But the gain on my old set of twees was good at 75 and had zero tail issues ever.

I forgot my main point, when I spin the head, every 8 revolutions it gets sticky. I cant figure out how that works out? Anyone got any ideas?

Volcano · 07-12-2012, 02:36 AM

Ive been messing with it a couple hours with no improvement. Is the tail going crazy on the ground indicative of anything? It flies ok but during some manuevers its making tail noises so im not comfortable flying it at all/

Volcano · 07-18-2012, 12:38 AM

Well the 8 turns thing must be an invisible new belt defect. I replaced the feathering, main, and complete tail. When that didnt help I put the other boom on and replaced the tail shaft, main and tail bearings, outrage doesnt seem to sell perfectly straight tailshafts. 3 new in package and none perfect, I get some vibes at 10-11,000 rpm via vbar analysis.
I flew it and it was crap, tail wagged quick and blew out in same flight. I borrowed mains and it was much better. So those mains were off .4 grams, they used to fly fine but I presuming there is an accumulation of vibes and they add up to enough to affect the vbar? I cant adjust the gain at the field so I was left with a non shaking tail but it blew out a couple times doing a tailslide gyro test.

Slyster · 07-18-2012, 12:42 AM

What tail blades? twee? I haven't heard of those. Be sure to try a good set.. like Edge... I had horrible issues on higher RPM with KBDD blades... a loud buzz... and odd cyclic movements... now that I switched to a set of rotor tech blades it is silky smooth at any RPM.

Volcano · 07-18-2012, 09:28 PM

what size carbons are ideal for the 550? Im running the Tony Whiteside extreme edition blades, people also run these huge ones on 700s

pctomlin · 07-19-2012, 08:20 AM

The 92mm edge tail blades are a very good size for the 550.

Volcano · 07-19-2012, 10:07 PM

Damn I just ordered edge blades and forgot about teh tail

I took off whatever tape was under the mini v, It looked like 3m 4010 and I put 2 layers of the same tape on. No flying today, I also think theres a vibe coming from the motor (used one I just installed prior to this problem) but Ill see tomorrow on the vibration analysis.

s0laris · 07-25-2012, 12:52 AM

I use kdbb. Zero issues. In fact i have kbdd on every bird except my goblin (only because they dont make 115mm blades)

Volcano · 07-31-2012, 12:11 AM

When I titled it weird one it was referring to the every 8 turns the belt would grind. Ive changed so much so what was that problem? Who knows, I tossed that belt. It happened at the same point on the belt. Im still kinda chasing probs but may have it sorted.
Theres an 11, 500 vibe which must be the crap quality tail shafts that outrage sells. But with my new edge blades I dont think its enough to be an issue. At top idle up it still has too much gain at 70,the tail can oscillate. Today I figured it out- its my new batteries, they keep headspeed higher even on the castle gov. So it worked flawless at mid idle up, ill try a lower gain than 70 tomorrow with the full 2300 headspeed.

SMOKEMASTER60 · 07-31-2012, 10:00 PM

Not sure if this is related toooo much, but I will write it. I was having some pretty good vibes on my 550 while descending and gettng ready to land. I like a high/steady headspeed so I had my throttle curve at 0-60-80-90-100 and it would shake while about 10 feet off of the ground while coming down. I ended up lowering the curve to 0-40-80-90-100 and it is gone and still flies good. I didn't get the shake in idle up with a curve of 100-90-90-90-100 so I think it was just at that specfic frequency of headsepead that made it do it. BTW...Edge blades used all round. Not sure if it is the same, but I thought I would share.

Volcano · 07-31-2012, 10:48 PM

I strongly suggest that you only fly in idle up. I saw it today that a guy was practicing his idle up because hes not used to it. He almost crashed and then recovered a few feet above ground, then he pushed down to land.

That wont happen if you only fly in idle up.
Im sure its my gov settings being a high headspeed, and just needs less gain on the tail at the high headspeed. The tail no longer goes out doing tailslide gyro tests.
I just looked at a headspeed calc and the combination of 65 c packs and I changed the main from a 132 to a 129 made the headspeed go up quite a bit. I just got a hobbywing esc and jut need a phase sensor and then I can use vbar gov. My castle gov chirps with gain so its set really loose.

07-12-2012, 01:11 AM	#1
Volcano Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: chicago	Weird one Ok I rebuilt after the belt flipped. Im having in flight issues similar to too high gain. I set one of my vbar banks at a lower gain of 70 and did a tail drop and it blew out, in the same flight as it ocillating. SO I took it home and did vbar vibe analysis, it shows a spike, but not necessarily bad according to mr Mel. So I replaced the whole tail, boom , belt, and tail- same spike at 10,000 rpm and worse actually, originally it was 690 max and now it got bad at 1000. the gain used to be 75 and fine, I turned it down to 73, then at 70 the tail blows out. The tail gets oscilating during funnels and fast tail slides. And while doing this the tail wags violently on my carpeted floor. It may have been doing this stuff before the belt flipped? But I thought it was sorted with turning tail gain down. Before crashing I had little outrage blades, and replaced them with big twee blades postcrash, turned the gain down after having issues like now. But the gain on my old set of twees was good at 75 and had zero tail issues ever. I forgot my main point, when I spin the head, every 8 revolutions it gets sticky. I cant figure out how that works out? Anyone got any ideas?

07-18-2012, 12:42 AM	#4
Slyster Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: May 2008 Location: Maplewood, MN	What tail blades? twee? I haven't heard of those. Be sure to try a good set.. like Edge... I had horrible issues on higher RPM with KBDD blades... a loud buzz... and odd cyclic movements... now that I switched to a set of rotor tech blades it is silky smooth at any RPM. __________________ It's not just a hobby... it's a lifestyle! Outrage Fusion & 550 / Goblin 700 / SK540 / Kontronik / DX8 / Quantum / RJX / 4010 Duo Pete Team Outrage.

07-19-2012, 08:20 AM	#6
pctomlin Registered Users Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Great State of Texas	The 92mm edge tail blades are a very good size for the 550. __________________ Paul Outrage 550 - Castle 3434-1100, Ice 100, Bec Pro, 94758z, Total G w/JR 8900G Outrage 550 - 4020-1390, Ice 100, Bec Pro, JR 8717s, Total G w/JR 8900G Rave Ballistic FSO - HKIII 4035-560, Ice HV160, Bec Pro, JR 8717s, Total G w/BL-9188

07-25-2012, 12:52 AM	#8
s0laris Registered Users Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: canada	I use kdbb. Zero issues. In fact i have kbdd on every bird except my goblin (only because they dont make 115mm blades) __________________ Outrage 550, Goblin 630, 700, warp 360, Dual BL Mcpx, 130x When you start to be in complete control reflexes are not a requirement.

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07-12-2012, 02:36 AM	#2
Volcano Thread Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: chicago	Ive been messing with it a couple hours with no improvement. Is the tail going crazy on the ground indicative of anything? It flies ok but during some manuevers its making tail noises so im not comfortable flying it at all/

07-18-2012, 12:38 AM	#3
Volcano Thread Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: chicago	Well the 8 turns thing must be an invisible new belt defect. I replaced the feathering, main, and complete tail. When that didnt help I put the other boom on and replaced the tail shaft, main and tail bearings, outrage doesnt seem to sell perfectly straight tailshafts. 3 new in package and none perfect, I get some vibes at 10-11,000 rpm via vbar analysis. I flew it and it was crap, tail wagged quick and blew out in same flight. I borrowed mains and it was much better. So those mains were off .4 grams, they used to fly fine but I presuming there is an accumulation of vibes and they add up to enough to affect the vbar? I cant adjust the gain at the field so I was left with a non shaking tail but it blew out a couple times doing a tailslide gyro test.

07-18-2012, 09:28 PM	#5
Volcano Thread Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: chicago	what size carbons are ideal for the 550? Im running the Tony Whiteside extreme edition blades, people also run these huge ones on 700s

07-19-2012, 10:07 PM	#7
Volcano Thread Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: chicago	Damn I just ordered edge blades and forgot about teh tail I took off whatever tape was under the mini v, It looked like 3m 4010 and I put 2 layers of the same tape on. No flying today, I also think theres a vibe coming from the motor (used one I just installed prior to this problem) but Ill see tomorrow on the vibration analysis.

07-31-2012, 12:11 AM	#9
Volcano Thread Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: chicago	When I titled it weird one it was referring to the every 8 turns the belt would grind. Ive changed so much so what was that problem? Who knows, I tossed that belt. It happened at the same point on the belt. Im still kinda chasing probs but may have it sorted. Theres an 11, 500 vibe which must be the crap quality tail shafts that outrage sells. But with my new edge blades I dont think its enough to be an issue. At top idle up it still has too much gain at 70,the tail can oscillate. Today I figured it out- its my new batteries, they keep headspeed higher even on the castle gov. So it worked flawless at mid idle up, ill try a lower gain than 70 tomorrow with the full 2300 headspeed.

07-31-2012, 10:00 PM	#10
SMOKEMASTER60 Registered Users Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: USA	Not sure if this is related toooo much, but I will write it. I was having some pretty good vibes on my 550 while descending and gettng ready to land. I like a high/steady headspeed so I had my throttle curve at 0-60-80-90-100 and it would shake while about 10 feet off of the ground while coming down. I ended up lowering the curve to 0-40-80-90-100 and it is gone and still flies good. I didn't get the shake in idle up with a curve of 100-90-90-90-100 so I think it was just at that specfic frequency of headsepead that made it do it. BTW...Edge blades used all round. Not sure if it is the same, but I thought I would share.

07-31-2012, 10:48 PM	#11
Volcano Thread Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: chicago	I strongly suggest that you only fly in idle up. I saw it today that a guy was practicing his idle up because hes not used to it. He almost crashed and then recovered a few feet above ground, then he pushed down to land. That wont happen if you only fly in idle up. Im sure its my gov settings being a high headspeed, and just needs less gain on the tail at the high headspeed. The tail no longer goes out doing tailslide gyro tests. I just looked at a headspeed calc and the combination of 65 c packs and I changed the main from a 132 to a 129 made the headspeed go up quite a bit. I just got a hobbywing esc and jut need a phase sensor and then I can use vbar gov. My castle gov chirps with gain so its set really loose.