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Align 3GX FBL System Align 3GX FBL Flybarless System Software and Hardware Support


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Old 08-27-2013, 01:24 PM   #1
nameci
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Default 3GX V4.0

It is not officially posted on Align 3GX download site but Align uploaded it to their staging area in their server. I have not been able to find any release note or any feature change on V4.0. It looks like it will go official in a few days.

For those brave souls, here is the link. I will be updating one of my 3GX tonight. Now the fun begins.
Use it at your own risk. I have no idea what has been changed or whether it will work on current 3GX yet.

http://ms.align.com.tw/3g_update/3GX_V4.0.rar

Remember to put your gain pots at NOON/12o'clock position before updating.
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:07 PM   #2
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May the force be with you.........

I'll do mine after I hear your, hopefully good, flight report, nameci
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Old 08-27-2013, 03:27 PM   #3
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Can't wait!!!!
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:04 AM   #4
nameci
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I just finished up updating my Trex 250SE/DFC to V4.0.

It is almost mid night here and I only was able to hover and do some tail/piro check in my basement with two battery packs(so good 11 to 12 min of random checks in confined space). Update went smooth. I have uninstalled V3.1 software in my Win 7 pc and reboot before installing V4.0. It looks like there is an additional installation of drivers that I don't remember compared to V3.0/V3.1 PC software. I have rebooted the PC after installation was completed(I do this on any installation of new drivers/software for precautionary measure on Windows PC).

It looks like all the 3GX setting from V3.1 got preserved but I completely re-do the DIR set up to make sure. I left my gain pots at noon position. Heli took off easily w/o any tendencies to tip over. I think Align's implementation of the 3GX learning mid stick(so there is no swash correction before getting off the ground) got additional improvement from V3.0/V3.1. I did take off and land multiple times in normal mode and did not see any tendency to tip at all. Additionally, I noticed that random buzzing noise is completely gone, servos were not moving/twitching at all when on the ground. Tail is solid as V3.0/V3.1 in just hovering/stationary pyro in both directions in IU mode.

So far, I like what I'm seeing. I have no idea what are all the improvements from V3.0/V3.1 but it feels good in my basic check. I will definitely be flying it in my back yard tomorrow if weather permits before proceeding with upgrading my 450s and 500.
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nameci View Post
I just finished up updating my Trex 250SE/DFC to V4.0.

It is almost mid night here and I only was able to hover and do some tail/piro check in my basement with two battery packs(so good 11 to 12 min of random checks in confined space). Update went smooth. I have uninstalled V3.1 software in my Win 7 pc and reboot before installing V4.0. It looks like there is an additional installation of drivers that I don't remember compared to V3.0/V3.1 PC software. I have rebooted the PC after installation was completed(I do this on any installation of new drivers/software for precautionary measure on Windows PC).

It looks like all the 3GX setting from V3.1 got preserved but I completely re-do the DIR set up to make sure. I left my gain pots at noon position. Heli took off easily w/o any tendencies to tip over. I think Align's implementation of the 3GX learning mid stick(so there is no swash correction before getting off the ground) got additional improvement from V3.0/V3.1. I did take off and land multiple times in normal mode and did not see any tendency to tip at all. Additionally, I noticed that random buzzing noise is completely gone, servos were not moving/twitching at all when on the ground. Tail is solid as V3.0/V3.1 in just hovering/stationary pyro in both directions in IU mode.

So far, I like what I'm seeing. I have no idea what are all the improvements from V3.0/V3.1 but it feels good in my basic check. I will definitely be flying it in my back yard tomorrow if weather permits before proceeding with upgrading my 450s and 500.
Thanks for the update.

Been happy with 3.1 but may check out 4.0 on my 500.
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:01 PM   #6
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Had a hover (5 batteries) with V4.0 on my 450 DFC Pro in gusty wind though fairly calm on the whole - feels crisper yet smoother. more stable ?. The motor tone sounded higher (70% flat 2700rpm). Also got more flight time but the ESC got hot. Flew this morning with V3.1 in the flat calm the ESC was quiet warm. I used same TX settings as in the morning and no re-setup of the 3GX. I uped the collective pitch in the morning from 8 to 9 ? deg. and lowered the cyclics from ? to ?, I'll have/wanted to clock the rpm and pitches. I do setups by feel and sound hence the vague setup values. Came home flashed the others charged batteries - dusk! I've been going/need to get some loud fins tail blades and a canopy!. carbon fibre in the gloom tends to be camo.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmanyk View Post
Had a hover (5 batteries) with V4.0 on my 450 DFC Pro in gusty wind though fairly calm on the whole - feels crisper yet smoother. more stable ?. The motor tone sounded higher (70% flat 2700rpm). Also got more flight time but the ESC got hot. Flew this morning with V3.1 in the flat calm the ESC was quiet warm. I used same TX settings as in the morning and no re-setup of the 3GX. I uped the collective pitch in the morning from 8 to 9 ? deg. and lowered the cyclics from ? to ?, I'll have/wanted to clock the rpm and pitches. I do setups by feel and sound hence the vague setup values. Came home flashed the others charged batteries - dusk! I've been going/need to get some loud fins tail blades and a canopy!. carbon fibre in the gloom tends to be camo.
Please iIlaborate, setups by feel? Setup is 8deg. no matter what and then max cyclic without binding in FM limits. Cyclic feel / reaction is set in the software / control rates
Also recheck your esc setup. I've had to redo my esc settings on occasion after a firmware update for come reason???
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bad007 View Post
Please iIlaborate, setups by feel? Setup is 8deg. no matter what and then max cyclic without binding in FM limits. Cyclic feel / reaction is set in the software / control rates
Also recheck your esc setup. I've had to redo my esc settings on occasion after a firmware update for come reason???
To elaborate "setup by feel".
Heli. is mechanically built and bench setup as per manual. In the case of the 3GX bench setup as per the V?.? "computer manual" 8 deg. cyclic 12 deg. collective. In the 3GX Turn off expo. all others default. In the TX on the bench pitch and throttle curves entered.
Off to the field and field setup - fly and "feel" what its like make any adjustments in the TX Usually Swash AFR, and Piro. rate, A turn on or off the tail linkage. Possibly pitch curve adjust for negative pitch. - Feel -.
All setings are usually reduced so no fear of binding/overdriving. At this point I have no idea what the settings are in the pitch ranges, head RPM ETC.

In the event of my flying style/ability changing I may go into the 3GX to fine tune.
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Trex :- 450SE V2 retired, 250SC retired, 450 PRO fbled Airwolfed, 500 ESP fbled Airwolfed, 250DFC, 450DFC, 500DFC, 800DFC - Futaba/Align. Blade :- 4003D retired,CX2, MQX - spektrum. 4503D Futaba/Savox, 450X Futaba/Savox/Align.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmanyk View Post
To elaborate "setup by feel".
Heli. is mechanically built and bench setup as per manual. In the case of the 3GX bench setup as per the V?.? "computer manual" 8 deg. cyclic 12 deg. collective. In the 3GX Turn off expo. all others default. In the TX on the bench pitch and throttle curves entered.
Off to the field and field setup - fly and "feel" what its like make any adjustments in the TX Usually Swash AFR, and Piro. rate, A turn on or off the tail linkage. Possibly pitch curve adjust for negative pitch. - Feel -.
All setings are usually reduced so no fear of binding/overdriving. At this point I have no idea what the settings are in the pitch ranges, head RPM ETC.

In the event of my flying style/ability changing I may go into the 3GX to fine tune.
You do not alter swash AFR. Your not flying a fb helli now.
Turn the tail linkage after you perform tail setup and set your limits?
After initial setup your adjustments by feel in the TX are only, expo, rudder ATV for piro rate and rarely DRs for a newbee.
If you need to adjust how fast the cyclic reacts unlike a FB helli you don't adjust ail and elev in swash mix you adjust the control rates in the software. If you need to adjust pitch for max collective you should rerun throttle range, it teaches throttle and pitch range. Just like tail gain, to much you get wag, to much cyclic gain can cause interaction during hard maneuvers when vibes are at the highest point.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:53 PM   #10
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Just came back in after flying three packs in the back yard.

This is a keeper!

Much more connected feel and organic(how I would describe it). Much less robotic feel thanV3.0/3.1 w/o losing stability.
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nameci View Post
Just came back in after flying three packs in the back yard.

This is a keeper!

Much more connected feel and organic(how I would describe it). Much less robotic feel thanV3.0/3.1 w/o losing stability.
Thanks for checking back in
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nameci View Post
Just came back in after flying three packs in the back yard.

This is a keeper!

Much more connected feel and organic(how I would describe it). Much less robotic feel thanV3.0/3.1 w/o losing stability.
Thanks, gonna update my 500 to 4.0 and try it out on the weekend.
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:38 PM   #13
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Any changes in the software? Electric gov?
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:03 PM   #14
nameci
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PC software seems to be same and same parameters for tuning, other than the additional drivers it installed in PC. I have not check for the electric gov as I use Castle ESC gov. Even if they did add it, I don't think I will use Align electric governor from bad experience on their ESC governor function, lol.
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:11 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bad007 View Post
You do not alter swash AFR. Your not flying a fb helli now.
Turn the tail linkage after you perform tail setup and set your limits?
After initial setup your adjustments by feel in the TX are only, expo, rudder ATV for piro rate and rarely DRs for a newbee.
If you need to adjust how fast the cyclic reacts unlike a FB helli you don't adjust ail and elev in swash mix you adjust the control rates in the software. If you need to adjust pitch for max collective you should rerun throttle range, it teaches throttle and pitch range. Just like tail gain, to much you get wag, to much cyclic gain can cause interaction during hard maneuvers when vibes are at the highest point.
If the Align recommendations are not required/wanted, how can a setup be found to suit a flyers wants/needs/abilities ?.

There will also be a range in the builds and components including the electronics of helis so flight test/s and adjustment/s to mechanics/electronics will/may be required. How are these factored out?.

If Rates can be used then why not Swash AFR, assuming to reduce total travel. Also how are multi flight modes with differing pitch ranges handled.

Yes the limits will need to be reset if linkages are adjusted to prevent binding.
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Trex :- 450SE V2 retired, 250SC retired, 450 PRO fbled Airwolfed, 500 ESP fbled Airwolfed, 250DFC, 450DFC, 500DFC, 800DFC - Futaba/Align. Blade :- 4003D retired,CX2, MQX - spektrum. 4503D Futaba/Savox, 450X Futaba/Savox/Align.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmanyk View Post
If the Align recommendations are not required/wanted, how can a setup be found to suit a flyers wants/needs/abilities ?.

There will also be a range in the builds and components including the electronics of helis so flight test/s and adjustment/s to mechanics/electronics will/may be required. How are these factored out?.

If Rates can be used then why not Swash AFR, assuming to reduce total travel. Also how are multi flight modes with differing pitch ranges handled.

Yes the limits will need to be reset if linkages are adjusted to prevent binding.
Limits need to be reset if the linkage is adjusted to prevent binding? You need to go back over the setup procedure and actually read everything.
New to FBL for sure, BX, Vbar, 3GX and others have a set cyclic deg. for initial setup so the FBL unit has a known base cyclic pitch to work off of. Range of build? Different components and what the flier want and needs? It's all in the FBL settings after the initial setup. Different flight modes? Why? You want different FMs you buy a VBAR with bank switching and then you can have multiple setups with a flick of a switch, but there's still and initial cyclic pitch and once you go threw setup everything all the settings are still in the software.
Why cant you adjust swash AFR? The instructions state when you go into limits you get aprox 1.5x the 8deg. You alter that 8deg. you alter the entire setup vers, DRs that just limits the cyclic control range your using. Maybe readying the instructions and Qs and As is in order.
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:18 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by bad007 View Post
Limits need to be reset if the linkage is adjusted to prevent binding? You need to go back over the setup procedure and actually read everything.
New to FBL for sure, BX, Vbar, 3GX and others have a set cyclic deg. for initial setup so the FBL unit has a known base cyclic pitch to work off of. Range of build? Different components and what the flier want and needs? It's all in the FBL settings after the initial setup. Different flight modes? Why? You want different FMs you buy a VBAR with bank switching and then you can have multiple setups with a flick of a switch, but there's still and initial cyclic pitch and once you go threw setup everything all the settings are still in the software.
Why cant you adjust swash AFR? The instructions state when you go into limits you get aprox 1.5x the 8deg. You alter that 8deg. you alter the entire setup vers, DRs that just limits the cyclic control range your using. Maybe readying the instructions and Qs and As is in order.
So what you are saying if I understand you correctly - I hope I'm not - is that the 3 flight modes Align give in the manuals (250, 450, 500) Pitch and throttle setting - General flight, Idle1:sport flight, Idle2:3d flight, is pick one and live with it? but set the collective to 12 deg. The only heli. having 12 deg. of collective is the 500. The transmitters with multi flight mode capabilities are redundant!. When another flight mode is required/wanted - do a complete re-setup. In the Q&A section of the manuals 4 and 11 are in fact wrong.
All facetiousness apart, based on the above and previous discussions, posts, topics. I have to say that if you get/have got perfect parts/components/equipment, manuals/instructions, warm, dry, calm, bright - not to bright weather, all the planets in alignment and a bench build/setup every time a lot of us must be really unlucky or the 3GX is not up to it.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:35 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by jimmanyk View Post
So what you are saying if I understand you correctly - I hope I'm not - is that the 3 flight modes Align give in the manuals (250, 450, 500) Pitch and throttle setting - General flight, Idle1:sport flight, Idle2:3d flight, is pick one and live with it? but set the collective to 12 deg. The only heli. having 12 deg. of collective is the 500. The transmitters with multi flight mode capabilities are redundant!. When another flight mode is required/wanted - do a complete re-setup. In the Q&A section of the manuals 4 and 11 are in fact wrong.
All facetiousness apart, based on the above and previous discussions, posts, topics. I have to say that if you get/have got perfect parts/components/equipment, manuals/instructions, warm, dry, calm, bright - not to bright weather, all the planets in alignment and a bench build/setup every time a lot of us must be really unlucky or the 3GX is not up to it.
Hers'e the problem
Trex :- 450 SE V2 retired, 250 super combo retired, 450 pro fbled Airwolfed, 500 ESP fbled Airwolfed, 250DFC , 450DFC, 500DFC - Futaba/Align. Blade :- 4003D retired,CX2, MQX - spektrum. 4503D Futaba/Savox, 450X Futaba/Savox/Align, .

You know nothing about FBL and not taking time to learn. There is a learning curve to it. You also still didn't go back over the manual. Collective is what you want and they have a suggested amount of pitch and that's it. I use 13.
3GX not up to it because of how it's setup needing a certain amount of cyclic?
FOOT IN MOUTH. Ok load other FBL setup software, say VBARS and check it out, that's how FBL is, the controller takes all the adjustments you used to perform for feel and integrates it into the software. The controller thinks in DEG./SEC, and does have a set amount if cyclic during the setup process. The algorithm written into the FBL controllers software relies on the initial setup being properly on all systems.
So, use what ever amount of collective you want, redo throttle range learn with changes, use DRs if you really need to and expo. Use IU throttle V curves or flat. Use a linear PC or a S curve 0 23. 50 76.5 100 like I do to get lots of op around center stick. Use a CC ESC and have different governed RPMs and that's it. Control rates for how fast the cyclic reacts.
It just hit me, Holly crap how much adjustability do you want? Did you even link up to a PC? , just read this post.
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=542553
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:58 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmanyk View Post
So what you are saying if I understand you correctly - I hope I'm not - is that the 3 flight modes Align give in the manuals (250, 450, 500) Pitch and throttle setting - General flight, Idle1:sport flight, Idle2:3d flight, is pick one and live with it? but set the collective to 12 deg. The only heli. having 12 deg. of collective is the 500. The transmitters with multi flight mode capabilities are redundant!. When another flight mode is required/wanted - do a complete re-setup. In the Q&A section of the manuals 4 and 11 are in fact wrong.
All facetiousness apart, based on the above and previous discussions, posts, topics. I have to say that if you get/have got perfect parts/components/equipment, manuals/instructions, warm, dry, calm, bright - not to bright weather, all the planets in alignment and a bench build/setup every time a lot of us must be really unlucky or the 3GX is not up to it.
Once the set-up of the unit is done, you can do/change anything you want in your TX (pitch curve, throttle curve, DR, expo) the unit will never know. However you must leave end point & swash afr intact.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:08 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bad007 View Post
Hers'e the problem
Trex :- 450 SE V2 retired, 250 super combo retired, 450 pro fbled Airwolfed, 500 ESP fbled Airwolfed, 250DFC , 450DFC, 500DFC - Futaba/Align. Blade :- 4003D retired,CX2, MQX - spektrum. 4503D Futaba/Savox, 450X Futaba/Savox/Align, .

You know nothing about FBL and not taking time to learn. There is a learning curve to it. You also still didn't go back over the manual. Collective is what you want and they have a suggested amount of pitch and that's it. I use 13.
3GX not up to it because of how it's setup needing a certain amount of cyclic?
FOOT IN MOUTH. Ok load other FBL setup software, say VBARS and check it out, that's how FBL is, the controller takes all the adjustments you used to perform for feel and integrates it into the software. The controller thinks in DEG./SEC, and does have a set amount if cyclic during the setup process. The algorithm written into the FBL controllers software relies on the initial setup being properly on all systems.
So, use what ever amount of collective you want, redo throttle range learn with changes, use DRs if you really need to and expo. Use IU throttle V curves or flat. Use a linear PC or a S curve 0 23. 50 76.5 100 like I do to get lots of op around center stick. Use a CC ESC and have different governed RPMs and that's it. Control rates for how fast the cyclic reacts.
It just hit me, Holly crap how much adjustability do you want? Did you even link up to a PC? , just read this post.
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=542553
Thank you for being totally unhelpful - Contradictive not answering questions or points raised. I voted happy with the 3GX and I've equipped other helis making a total of 6 3GX units!.
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Trex :- 450SE V2 retired, 250SC retired, 450 PRO fbled Airwolfed, 500 ESP fbled Airwolfed, 250DFC, 450DFC, 500DFC, 800DFC - Futaba/Align. Blade :- 4003D retired,CX2, MQX - spektrum. 4503D Futaba/Savox, 450X Futaba/Savox/Align.
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