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Align 3GX FBL System Align 3GX FBL Flybarless System Software and Hardware Support


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Old 08-30-2013, 12:25 PM   #21
jimmanyk
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Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
Once the set-up of the unit is done, you can do/change anything you want in your TX (pitch curve, throttle curve, DR, expo) the unit will never know. However you must leave end point & swash afr intact.
That's what I did - bench setup using printed manuals and/or the pc electronic manual/setup. On arrival to the field I dialled down the collective with the swash AFR (says swashplate mixing percentage Q&A 4 in my manuals). Also had to alter tail rod link length to address piro/drift issue (obviously or not reset tail limits at some point). Posted my findings/experiments and got set about.
What I have not been told/realised/found is what is the difference between reducing the collective or cyclic range with curves, dual rates or in the swash AFR ?, other than dual rates and curves are either side of center and the swash AFR is across the whole.

Once the 3GX ranges (mechanical ?) are set then the algorithum/equation in the 3GX can work out the throws/speeds/directions from give inputs even if they are past the point of mechanical binding (a rate of more than 100% or swash AFR of greater than the initial setting) - unless a hard limit is set in the initial setup. Then other mixing is a percentage of my/your/the setup with other adjustments via pc link. I assume there are accelerometers of some description in the 3GX.
I have looked at the movement speed tab on the pc software and see that the speeds are what the are from what the bench setup are/where.

Just to put the cat amongst the pidgeons if a model does not have 8 deg. cyclic travel or 12 deg. collective what do we do throw one away? fit a swashplate/mast that does? - if availiable.

As I understand - simplified - if you know the whole is 100 and you know that the whole is divided by three, the two values you have are 20 and 50 then the third has to be 30 (100-(20+50))=30.
So on power up the 3GX reads all the neutral/at rest inputs plus the initial bench settings to work out the end value at takeoff for the throws and speeds.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:16 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by jimmanyk View Post
Thank you for being totally unhelpful - Contradictive not answering questions or points raised. I voted happy with the 3GX and I've equipped other helis making a total of 6 3GX units!.
I was in post #7 informing you ,you don't alter cyclic pitch after running setup.
I was in post #9 when you mentioned turning the control rod after setting limits in rudder setup, that by the way could run the servo to a stall condition and that what you could and couldn't adjust after running setup. I also informed you how to adjust your so called to feel using the control rates in the software.
I was in post #16 Informing you that FBL does have a initial cyclic deg. the controller works off of and tuning is performed in the software. Again you where already informed what was adjustable and not. I also pointed out what the instruction states about the 8deg. cyclic and that you get aprox 1.5 of that out of setup. Also if you want different setups that you need a unit like VBAR that has what you call bank switching for different setups and is still performed in the software. Why cant you adjust swash AFR? The instructions state when you go into limits you get aprox 1.5x the 8deg. You alter that 8deg. you alter the entire setup vers, DRs that just limits the cyclic control range your using.
I was in post #18 that the collective mentioned is just that, a suggested pitch and you can set what ever you want as long as your rerun throttle range learn. Also supplied you with setup options including a CC ESC if you want different governed head speeds and explained the algorithm written into the FBL controllers software relies on the initial setup being proper with a set cyclic pitch on all systems and I'll add except for the 3G
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:25 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by jimmanyk View Post
That's what I did - bench setup using printed manuals and/or the pc electronic manual/setup. On arrival to the field I dialled down the collective with the swash AFR (says swashplate mixing percentage Q&A 4 in my manuals). Also had to alter tail rod link length to address piro/drift issue (obviously or not reset tail limits at some point). Posted my findings/experiments and got set about.
What I have not been told/realised/found is what is the difference between reducing the collective or cyclic range with curves, dual rates or in the swash AFR ?, other than dual rates and curves are either side of center and the swash AFR is across the whole.

Once the 3GX ranges (mechanical ?) are set then the algorithum/equation in the 3GX can work out the throws/speeds/directions from give inputs even if they are past the point of mechanical binding (a rate of more than 100% or swash AFR of greater than the initial setting) - unless a hard limit is set in the initial setup. Then other mixing is a percentage of my/your/the setup with other adjustments via pc link. I assume there are accelerometers of some description in the 3GX.
I have looked at the movement speed tab on the pc software and see that the speeds are what the are from what the bench setup are/where.

Just to put the cat amongst the pidgeons if a model does not have 8 deg. cyclic travel or 12 deg. collective what do we do throw one away? fit a swashplate/mast that does? - if availiable.

As I understand - simplified - if you know the whole is 100 and you know that the whole is divided by three, the two values you have are 20 and 50 then the third has to be 30 (100-(20+50))=30.
So on power up the 3GX reads all the neutral/at rest inputs plus the initial bench settings to work out the end value at takeoff for the throws and speeds.
Not helpful!! LMAO and you have setup 6 units and still don't have a clue? Don't know the difference between DR's and altering swash AFR?
Asked and answered.
What I have not been told/realised/found is what is the difference between reducing the collective or cyclic range with curves, dual rates or in the swash AFR ?, other than dual rates and curves are either side of center and the swash AFR is across the whole.
Post #16 Why cant you adjust swash AFR? The instructions state when you go into limits you get aprox 1.5x the 8deg. You alter that 8deg. you alter the entire setup vers, DRs just limits the cyclic control range your using.
To explain farther AFR sets your initial max collective pitch and cyclic pitch. TX 101 DRs just limits the throw input from the sticks instead of the max throw set with the swash AFR.
The 3GX wants to know the max cyclic available before binding so it can use it if needed for stabilization.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:35 PM   #24
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4.0 is tested and developed by Jamie Robertson
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:13 PM   #25
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Dino, when do you think we can see the release note showing what has been added, improved?


So far I'm liking the update.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:28 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by jimmanyk View Post
......... What I have not been told/realised/found is what is the difference between reducing the collective or cyclic range with curves, dual rates or in the swash AFR ?, other than dual rates and curves are either side of center and the swash AFR is across the whole. ...........
I see your point, you are right, this will not make any difference, again the unit will never know if you have lowered the swash afr, pitch curve or D/R, but you cannot move the swash afr higher than what you have initially set-up.

You'r better to work with your pitch curve as you can adjust differently for your different flight mode. Same for the cyclic as you can flip back your dual rate switch as needed, or use different rate for each flight mode. Take note that opposed to the pitch, the cyclic rate can be upped in the software under ''control rate''.

A good tip is to initially adjust your col.pitch a little higher, this will give you enough room to play without redoing the initial set-up.
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Old 08-31-2013, 03:46 AM   #27
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I see your point, you are right, this will not make any difference, again the unit will never know if you have lowered the swash afr, pitch curve or D/R, but you cannot move the swash afr higher than what you have initially set-up.

You'r better to work with your pitch curve as you can adjust differently for your different flight mode. Same for the cyclic as you can flip back your dual rate switch as needed, or use different rate for each flight mode. Take note that opposed to the pitch, the cyclic rate can be upped in the software under ''control rate''.

A good tip is to initially adjust your col.pitch a little higher, this will give you enough room to play without redoing the initial set-up.
You've got it!. Though you can increase the cyclic in the Swash AFR it alters the roll rate, but not the pitch that increases the mechanical throw.
I realised at 3:00 this morning that the swash AFR is across all flight modes. Though I already knew. That said, settings in the 3GX are for all flight modes also.

The bench setup gave me to much collective for my abilities/style literally the flex/deflection of the meat in my thumb or thumb and finger had the heli shoot of like a rocket!.

To any interested/confused/bored parties Take the 3GX challenge.
Sit the heli on the bench (remove the pinion, motor, motor wires, blades. throttle hold on - you know the drill).
Connect the 3GX to a computer if you wish, give full cyclic the swash moves in the direction at ? speed/manner. Take note of how it moves and your settings. Alter swash AFR for the cyclic control used previously - up or down - give full cyclic the swash will move in a different speed/manner, but only up to the angle of cyclic pitch. Those connected to a computer look at the movement speed tab the roll/flip values will/do change. Alter the sliders (may have to write) I didn't. Alter rates, do combinations. pick the heli up and waggle to simulate flight. Return your settings!.

Thanks to Nameci for the heads up and letting us go mental? in the post.
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Old 08-31-2013, 03:50 AM   #28
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4.0 is tested and developed by Jamie Robertson
that good
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Old 08-31-2013, 05:09 AM   #29
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And for no other reason......
Back in the day I made a constant head speed governor that I finished just as Futaba released theirs. As it happens using the same chip and similar design as best I could tell. Ok I'll live with that!. I'm not bitter. Much!
My next great masterpiece was a 3 axis gyro system that used 3 off the shelf new to the market headlock gyros (Vision/Robbe) connected to a strip board mixer board. The board is about the size of a 3 1/2 inch HDD. Had to use prebuilt gyros as the sensor components were not available off the shelf (special/minimum order). Though the un-built MKII was going to get the sensors cannibalized out of the gyros. The heli was a concept 60, had to be a 60 something - 4 amp D cell nickel batteries for the radio/servo/electronics. So testing sort of worked. Next great brain wave, I'll get rid of the flybar! - saves weight an drag!. MCS 51 coding on a BBC micro with a DIY adapter board to blow the 8051? class chips in a HCR electronics micron plus eprom programmer for the BBC. Then came surface mount 80c517 537 and tore the ....... out of it all - happy days. Modern technology "you don't know you're born!".
I wasn't that pioneer - but I could have been!.

Yes I know wandering off topic.
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:15 AM   #30
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You can't look at a flybarless unit on the bench, this will tell absolutely nothing about flight behavior. On the bench the swash will always go all the way at it's full cyclic limit you have set, but in flight the controller will only flip/roll your heli at the control rate it's set at.

When you are hovering your helicopter, the gyro is constantly making adjustment to your swashplate trying to keep your heli level, in fact the gyro have absolutely no idea that your helicopter is level, what the gyro is doing is to keep 0 sec (zero deg. rotation per second) and as you give ELEV/AIL command to the gyro, e.g. you command 100 sec, the gyro will use whatever pitch is needed to acheive your command and again constantly adjusting the swashplate to keep 100 sec as contant as possible, the pitch requiered to acheive this will vary greatly depending on your head speed or the size of your helicopter.

Your 3 gyro on a mixer board are only dampening unwanted movement, todays flybarless controller are much more complicated than this.

I already played with a dual swash coaxial with two rudder servo on cyclic........
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:46 AM   #31
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The bench setup gave me to much collective for my abilities/style literally the flex/deflection of the meat in my thumb or thumb and finger had the heli shoot of like a rocket!.
Learning collective management be best leaned than avoided. I learned when still a beginner, higher pitch = better control and agility esp in windy conditions and general flight. Some blades with more pop like the Mavrikk G5 Wide Chords are different and take less pitch
The max collective pitch discussion popped up a while back and many that ran 10 - 12 deg
took my 13deg challenge and to everyones surprise once the initial adapting to the higher pitch settled in they liked it better finding better control. Only a couple cut the pitch a tad. For me anything under 13 isn't even tolerable, it's like flying a sluggish pos. I also run a S curve a mention before and it works good for both getting hard on the stick and just basic sport. Above hover range the pitch curve range is 76.5 - 100 / 23.5 pitch range but mid stick for pop around center stick to 3/4 requires next to no collective management for tic tocs, flips and rolls, 50 -76.5 /26.5 pitch range.
You'll also notice less of vortex ring effect coming out if FF to a hover.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513037
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Old 08-31-2013, 03:12 PM   #32
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You can't look at a flybarless unit on the bench, this will tell absolutely nothing about flight behavior. On the bench the swash will always go all the way at it's full cyclic limit you have set, but in flight the controller will only flip/roll your heli at the control rate it's set at.

When you are hovering your helicopter, the gyro is constantly making adjustment to your swashplate trying to keep your heli level, in fact the gyro have absolutely no idea that your helicopter is level, what the gyro is doing is to keep 0 sec (zero deg. rotation per second) and as you give ELEV/AIL command to the gyro, e.g. you command 100 sec, the gyro will use whatever pitch is needed to acheive your command and again constantly adjusting the swashplate to keep 100 sec as contant as possible, the pitch requiered to acheive this will vary greatly depending on your head speed or the size of your helicopter.

Your 3 gyro on a mixer board are only dampening unwanted movement, todays flybarless controller are much more complicated than this.

I already played with a dual swash coaxial with two rudder servo on cyclic........
Yes that was/is my point the swash will travel to the limit at ? speed. Even with a waggle/hard roll/flip the swash will only go up to the limit

Yes it was over elaborate (3? gyros for the head, tail was a 4th), large, heavy, fun? (seemed like a good idea at the time) though impressive for around the mid 80s for some return. Two extra gyros as "dampers" was the first attempt as it happens (headlock gyros being king!) I seem to think they fought each other, hence the mixer board to nobble the pulse widths. On the MKI the gyros were standalone? or not there was a birds nest of wires, the outputs went through the gyro+receiver mixer to the servos, the idea being provide your own gyros that were at a set distance from the mast. A MKI.I had eccpm (3rd gyro). The idea being you could use aero or basic heli. radios.
I've still got the boards can't think where the drawings and the hand/brain/calculator compiled software is, the rom images will be on brittle 5 1/4 disks. The triangle test bed is long gone (120 eccpm? 3 gyro - brilliant!)
I'll have to put the scavenged boards in an album If nothing else for the OH MY GIDDY AUNT! factor.
I also cringe at the brilliant/bright ideas now but back then pic chips were a to order part the headlock gyros were a 2" cube without an external controller box - nano tech. of the day!.
I'll have to rebuild - volunteers?.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:35 PM   #33
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Learning collective management be best leaned than avoided. I learned when still a beginner, higher pitch = better control and agility esp in windy conditions and general flight. Some blades with more pop like the Mavrikk G5 Wide Chords are different and take less pitch
The max collective pitch discussion popped up a while back and many that ran 10 - 12 deg
took my 13deg challenge and to everyones surprise once the initial adapting to the higher pitch settled in they liked it better finding better control. Only a couple cut the pitch a tad. For me anything under 13 isn't even tolerable, it's like flying a sluggish pos. I also run a S curve a mention before and it works good for both getting hard on the stick and just basic sport. Above hover range the pitch curve range is 76.5 - 100 / 23.5 pitch range but mid stick for pop around center stick to 3/4 requires next to no collective management for tic tocs, flips and rolls, 50 -76.5 /26.5 pitch range.
You'll also notice less of vortex ring effect coming out if FF to a hover.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513037
Collective pitch was +12 deg. - 2 deg. (used a gauge). with +/- 2700 rpm clocked. I really do mean the flex/give of the meat/flesh in my fingers would give psycho collective.
Yes the collective pitch of what ever mine is/are now gives about 5mm - 3/16" of movement around the centre of where ever the stick is whilst flying, a lot ?, to much ? but I can control the spongy collective and cyclic especially in a gust of wind. That said my 250 as per manual no collective reduction, 3GX V3.1 defaults though expo is off as are all my 3GXs, same TX, is controllable though not as much collective stick movement but movement not flex. Flown indoors guaranteed no wind.

Tried expo on the cyclic and thought of an s curve when I saw the graph, but thought I can't handle 12 deg.
I'll have to try increasing the collective a little at a time to get a crisper collective, I may have gone from one extreme to another.
I think the Blade 450x comes as 10 deg. I manage that out of the box though it took me by surprise at first. Failed dx6i elevator pot. Hence the refit. Got the 450x before the Align flybarless as a quick and dirty way to get a feel for flybarless and a new tech. "flawless" dx6i!.

I've seen/aware of the vortex thing my last flybared nitro flight before a +/- 15 year break was on a damp evening "playing" with a bell shaped cloud in/around the rotor. Which reminds me that heli. was 8 deg. collective pitch range - yes 0 to 8 and spongyish. 6 deg.? cyclic.
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:01 PM   #34
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Yes the collective pitch of what ever mine is/are now gives about 5mm - 3/16" of movement around the centre of where ever the stick is whilst flying, a lot ?, to much ?
I have a DX7 and in the swash mix it has expo on and off/ actual. If I turn the expo on the collective feels like your describing. Also we had a member that after an 3GX update had excess collective tendencies and had to reload the firmware.
The balls being to far out on the servo horns will produce low control resolution and thus cause the sensation your describing. What values do you have in the swash mix?
You didn't up collective pitch acceleration did ya?
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:33 AM   #35
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I have a DX7 and in the swash mix it has expo on and off/ actual. If I turn the expo on the collective feels like your describing. Also we had a member that after an 3GX update had excess collective tendencies and had to reload the firmware.
The balls being to far out on the servo horns will produce low control resolution and thus cause the sensation your describing. What values do you have in the swash mix?
You didn't up collective pitch acceleration did ya?
Picture the scene.
15 year heli. break. A friend got an align 450 SE, WOW! (so did I 2008) 450 SE V2, lipo batteries!, small radio, servos, Futaba 7C, 401 gyro - Wow!, shinny!, new tools....
Built as per manual psycho collective!? - one click of the ratchet (now a flat strip). What a surprise -12 deg. pitch, throttle increases heli blown into floor, getting
lighter, half stick (jesus this things going to explode!) about 2/3 stick its lifting and NOT STOPPING!!, backed on the stick fell like a brick - ok?. Back home rebuild, read
the rest/setup section of the manual, get a gauge - 11 or 12 to + 11 or 12deg. pitch - "Ah! this one works around centre", inverted flight..... set bottom stick to -2 -3 deg.
pitch still psycho on the top half of stick. Off to club, B400 RTF out the box - same, no collective stick movement, you know the rest. Experiments with a B400, lower
collective and cyclic throws via swash AFR - great! by now the 450 SE is obsolete - mint shelf queen.
Other flybared helis to flybarless. Same psycho collectives. Not the B450X 10 deg.

I moved the balls in a hole on the 500 flybarless but they clashed on the servos so were put back. Not tried on the 450 may have done years ago but ? geometry issues?. Just checked DS4 arm inner hole. looking at other flyers helis same throws/arm lengths per brand.

No the 3GX are all default except the expo which is 0/off checked.

Swash AFR values are slightly less at build to get the 3GX setup, manual Futaba 12ZH on the 450 AIL & ELE 40% (8deg.) pit 31% (9 deg.). I've got an 8FG and used a gauge/s setting AIL & ELE to 35 ? (8 deg.) PIT to 39 ? 40 ? (12 deg.) not 9 deg. My PIT is now 35% (10? deg.). I set to 12 not 9 deg. as the other flight modes are 11 deg. If I ever get there!.

The 250 as manual 43% cyclic, 25 not 26% collective and the 500 has been changed the pit is 25% not 37% in the manual my initial setting 35% ?. Both helis 8 deg. cyclic and 12 deg. collective.

Why is the 250 the only non psycho, clocked its head speed 3??? rpm !!!! looked in manual 4000 rpm at 5 deg. pitch.

Odd that its the collective on all the helis, my builds and rtf, flybared and flybarless with 12 deg. pitch. In theory the 250 should be too scary to power up again. I also have big paws/long fingers and thumbs. So small movements are hard. It's not that long people are clumsy It's the short ones that can't reach the top shelf as quick!.

My original helis had an 8 deg. pitch range 0 to 8, spongy hover at 3/4 stick, little to no 3D back then.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:12 AM   #36
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This is making sense now and why you went straight into the swash AFR for tuning. Everything has changed with FBL. The control unit wont work right if you alter the swash AFRs after setup and can even become unstable. Tuning is in the software. Everything as per manual right! It's your pitch curves and throttle curves, to much head speed change, not enough pitch, that's also why the one fell like a brick when you let off.
The curves in the manual are no good. Printed back in the days when the motors didn't have that much power. We used to use a 100 80 100 for IU stunt mode because that's mow much throttle curve it took to keep the head speed constant during pitch changes. Now the motors are twice a powerful.
You need to use a normal curve like this at 12deg. and find the head speed you like.
Start with normal and work your way on up 0 60 80 80 80. - 0 60 85 85 85 - 0 65 90 90 90 etc.
IU 85 80 85, 90 85 90 , 100 85 100 or flat 80, 85, 90 etc.
Big hands, long fingers? I assume you already made the sticks longer so the input isn't so sensitive.
As for the 250, ESC programming go ok? Throttle learn go OK? The gov led toggles between red and green when performing it.
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Originally Posted by jimmanyk View Post
Picture the scene.
15 year heli. break. A friend got an align 450 SE, WOW! (so did I 2008) 450 SE V2, lipo batteries!, small radio, servos, Futaba 7C, 401 gyro - Wow!, shinny!, new tools....
Built as per manual psycho collective!? - one click of the ratchet (now a flat strip). What a surprise -12 deg. pitch, throttle increases heli blown into floor, getting
lighter, half stick (jesus this things going to explode!) about 2/3 stick its lifting and NOT STOPPING!!, backed on the stick fell like a brick - ok?. Back home rebuild, read
the rest/setup section of the manual, get a gauge - 11 or 12 to + 11 or 12deg. pitch - "Ah! this one works around centre", inverted flight..... set bottom stick to -2 -3 deg.
pitch still psycho on the top half of stick. Off to club, B400 RTF out the box - same, no collective stick movement, you know the rest. Experiments with a B400, lower
collective and cyclic throws via swash AFR - great! by now the 450 SE is obsolete - mint shelf queen.
Other flybared helis to flybarless. Same psycho collectives. Not the B450X 10 deg.

I moved the balls in a hole on the 500 flybarless but they clashed on the servos so were put back. Not tried on the 450 may have done years ago but ? geometry issues?. Just checked DS4 arm inner hole. looking at other flyers helis same throws/arm lengths per brand.

No the 3GX are all default except the expo which is 0/off checked.

Swash AFR values are slightly less at build to get the 3GX setup, manual Futaba 12ZH on the 450 AIL & ELE 40% (8deg.) pit 31% (9 deg.). I've got an 8FG and used a gauge/s setting AIL & ELE to 35 ? (8 deg.) PIT to 39 ? 40 ? (12 deg.) not 9 deg. My PIT is now 35% (10? deg.). I set to 12 not 9 deg. as the other flight modes are 11 deg. If I ever get there!.

The 250 as manual 43% cyclic, 25 not 26% collective and the 500 has been changed the pit is 25% not 37% in the manual my initial setting 35% ?. Both helis 8 deg. cyclic and 12 deg. collective.

Why is the 250 the only non psycho, clocked its head speed 3??? rpm !!!! looked in manual 4000 rpm at 5 deg. pitch.

Odd that its the collective on all the helis, my builds and rtf, flybared and flybarless with 12 deg. pitch. In theory the 250 should be too scary to power up again. I also have big paws/long fingers and thumbs. So small movements are hard. It's not that long people are clumsy It's the short ones that can't reach the top shelf as quick!.

My original helis had an 8 deg. pitch range 0 to 8, spongy hover at 3/4 stick, little to no 3D back then.
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Old 09-01-2013, 11:36 AM   #37
jimmanyk
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This is making sense now and why you went straight into the swash AFR for tuning. Everything has changed with FBL. The control unit wont work right if you alter the swash AFRs after setup and can even become unstable. Tuning is in the software. Everything as per manual right! It's your pitch curves and throttle curves, to much head speed change, not enough pitch, that's also why the one fell like a brick when you let off.
The curves in the manual are no good. Printed back in the days when the motors didn't have that much power. We used to use a 100 80 100 for IU stunt mode because that's mow much throttle curve it took to keep the head speed constant during pitch changes. Now the motors are twice a powerful.
You need to use a normal curve like this at 12deg. and find the head speed you like.
Start with normal and work your way on up 0 60 80 80 80. - 0 60 85 85 85 - 0 65 90 90 90 etc.
IU 85 80 85, 90 85 90 , 100 85 100 or flat 80, 85, 90 etc.
Big hands, long fingers? I assume you already made the sticks longer so the input isn't so sensitive.
As for the 250, ESC programming go ok? Throttle learn go OK? The gov led toggles between red and green when performing it.
The throttle calibrations programming went ok for all 3GXs and ESCs.

I tried - flybar days - Altering the headspeed with 11 to 12 deg. collective, seem to think heli. was unstable even with weights out on the flybar. ? rpm.

I'm running 0 50 70 something flat mid stick up, 2700 rpm with the flybarless at ? deg. pitch. I still say 12 deg. is to much pitch for me.

I'll "reset" the 450 heli. to 12 not 9 deg. collective, 8 deg. cyclic in the swash AFR. I'll have to wait till tomorrow evening to test, its blowing a gale - nearly here. Tomorrow is supposedly calm. I'll try a lower Head speed.

Still don't get why I can manage the 250, but I did wonder if the info is/was current as well as any loss in translation in all the equipment manuals. Bit of a monkey see monkey do with the "cloners" and new manufactures manuals.

Yes long sticks with flowers/mushroom ends. Though length didn't make much difference.
Thinking about it game controllers are a pain, I always have to dial them down.

P.S. posted what's left of those mixer boards and ancillaries in an album. The wiring looms are lost - they were the best part.

reset:
Swash AFR cyclic 40% 8 deg. pit 31% 9 deg. as the book. My pit 50% 12 deg.
pitch curve -2 2 6 10 12 deg.
throttle 0 60 70 70 70
flip 176 d/s
roll 172 d/s
collective pitch command 9 to -41 %
piro R -299 d/s L 267 d/s

All other settings in 3GX default though expo 0/off. directions, servo type/frame rate, heli. size, limits checked/set/correct. Pots at 12/mid/vertical.

The pitch and throttle curves are as V3.1 initial test flight, can't say for the roll rates etc. V4.0 reading, not recorded for V3.1. They gave psycho collective.
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Last edited by jimmanyk; 09-01-2013 at 02:54 PM.. Reason: reset
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Old 09-01-2013, 03:19 PM   #38
bad007
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Now that we have 3D helis that are capable of neg. pitch inverted flight it is a normal
to setup 0deg. at mid stick even normal mode so as you progress into some flips and rolls that require IU having 0 at mid stick it still feels the same. You shouldn't get to used to these curves.
Normal PC should be set to 40 45 50 (0deg.) 75 100 so in all flight modes it feels the same and you can then progress into some acrobatics in IU.
That's going to make collective even more sensitive but you'll get used to it.
Just bump up everything slowly
My flip and roll rates, min., are 225deg./sec and rudder 450+ and some are maxed out.
When you get used to higher rates and pitch you'll notice way less movement needed to control your helli

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmanyk View Post
P.S. posted what's left of those mixer boards and ancillaries in an album. The wiring looms are lost - they were the best part.

reset:
Swash AFR cyclic 40% 8 deg. pit 31% 9 deg. as the book. My pit 50% 12 deg.
pitch curve -2 2 6 10 12 deg.
throttle 0 60 70 70 70
flip 176 d/s
roll 172 d/s
collective pitch command 9 to -41 %
piro R -299 d/s L 267 d/s

All other settings in 3GX default though expo 0/off. directions, servo type/frame rate, heli. size, limits checked/set/correct. Pots at 12/mid/vertical.

The pitch and throttle curves are as V3.1 initial test flight, can't say for the roll rates etc. V4.0 reading, not recorded for V3.1. They gave psycho collective.
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:05 PM   #39
jimmanyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bad007 View Post
Now that we have 3D helis that are capable of neg. pitch inverted flight it is a normal
to setup 0deg. at mid stick even normal mode so as you progress into some flips and rolls that require IU having 0 at mid stick it still feels the same. You shouldn't get to used to these curves.
Normal PC should be set to 40 45 50 (0deg.) 75 100 so in all flight modes it feels the same and you can then progress into some acrobatics in IU.
That's going to make collective even more sensitive but you'll get used to it.
Just bump up everything slowly
My flip and roll rates, min., are 225deg./sec and rudder 450+ and some are maxed out.
When you get used to higher rates and pitch you'll notice way less movement needed to control your helli
I understand about mid stick up pitches or setups around a centre being the same for seamless transition between flight modes and yes it is more sensitive with 0 to 12 deg. over a shorter distance, but as I keep saying the little to no collective movement is/has always been the problem. Back when I got the 450 SE V2 and the radio the throttle had the ratchet which I left for a time just in case the radio failed "invalidated your warranty, shouldn't have taken the back off" even though the manual tells you how to alter stick tension!. There is/was that little collective movement that the pawl riding the distance of the face of the ratchet was/is to much!. When pawl fell over the crest of said ratchet all hell broke loose", hence the pawl being replaced as soon as with a flat strip for a little friction. How the hell do people fly with finesse with that little control - that much sensitivity. I've seen jump of hit idle on the floor shoot up thrash about Auto. in and slow the steady pinpoint flying. There has to be 2 setups for the flying styles. Snap and pop will not work for pinpoint ?. I used the general flight pitch curve to get more travel. I think the best I can/will have to do is set 0 deg. mid stick again and lower the collective pitch. It's going to have to be a balance. I can guarantee it won't be the "must have maxed out." I'm still no wiser as to the why the "must have maxed out pitch and throttle hard 3D setup" across the forum, as every ones skill/style is/will differ, there must be a range with in the setup for the styles of flying. I'll let you know how I get on.
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Old 09-01-2013, 09:09 PM   #40
beenflying
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Perhaps we should start a new thread for the v4 firmware.
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