Helicopter injuries, or deaths to public or non pilots.

[2cants]

Lately there is a lot of debate about how dangerous this hobby is.

We should all know the risks. If it is proven to be statisctically unsafe - hell, I don't care if I'm the pilot or not - I will increase my own safety (e.g. fly from within a netted area). But I havent hurt myself or anyone else yet - so...what are my chances...?

Has anyone done a statitical analysis?

I've done some Google research (10 pages deep, on multiple death/injury/deceased/killed type search pattern), and there have been some horrific deaths by RC Helis, and some well publicised shocking injuries. Notably, most deaths have been at events or proper fields. I have not looked at RC Planes (though I know there have been several of those too, Budapest, England etc).

Deaths (from anyone including public, pilot, instructor, spectator)
Date Country/City Flying Place "Name"Spectator/Public Link
3/Nov/2003 Houston Tom Bass Park "Ron Kyle" Instructor of pilot
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165680
21/Mar/2004 Israel ??? "Boy" Spectator
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/heli...1645937/tm.htm
1/Apr/2005 Chinhae Korea School demo "8yr girl" Spectator (demo)http://m.rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t169336p1/
19/Aug/2008 Brazil Pernambuco demonstration "Newton da Silva" Spectator http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/114574/news/world/model-helicopter-kills-child-in-brazil


Serious Injuries (non pilot only - as we/they accept the risk)
Date Country/City Flying Place "Name"Spectator/Public Link
6/Feb/2009 Hong Kong Park "Lo Kwok-Wah" Public
http://www.switched.com/2009/02/06/mans-head-sliced-by-rc-helicopter/
11/Jul/2009 Chicago Russell Military Museum "Agnieszka Wlodek " Spectator
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/4...-accident.html
21/Apr/2010 Florida Gadsden Park - Tampa Bay "Maresa Poole" Public
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/local/hillsborough/420-tampa-teen-injured-by-toy-helicopter-042010
19/May/2010 UK? Warrington/Private land? "Stel?" Spectator
http://www.youtube ... cUebBDxa-6U
6/Jul/2011 Phillipines, USA 3Dx Event"Derrick Threatt"Official
http://www.*******************/categ...lippines-2011/
4/Sep/2012 Haverhill, USA Backyard "Scott Proposki & Friend" Private
http://www.eagletribune.com/haverhil...opter-accident

Summary so far..
4 deaths in last 7 years. 1 death at RC field, 2 at RC shows, 1 unknown in Brazil.1 school demo. (0 deaths in public parks, 5 deaths at feilds or events)
6 significant injuries (reported in media - not forums). 2 in public parks, 1 backyard, 3 events.

So - how lethal is our hobby?

Analysis (please confirm my figures - I'm an engineer by trade - not a maths teacher).
Propose around the world, 5000 helis flights per day worldwide. 365 days per year, 9 year span of data. 4 tragic deaths in those 9 years. I 'estimate' 5000 RC heli flights worldwide per day would be conservative.
5000 flights could equal 1000 people flying 5 battery packs (worldwide) per day. Aerages out - weekends would likely be more.

5000flights x 365days x 9yrs = 16,425,000 flights per nine years.
4 deaths in 9 years = 16,425,000 / 4 = 4,106,240
chance of being killed by RC heli on above data = 1 chance in 4,106,240

For comparison - other death statistics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_strike
Ligthning - chance of being killed per year = ~24,000dths in ~6,973,738,433pop
or 1 on 290,000 (in world) per year.
In the USA, chance of lightning death = 1 in 1,000,000 (must be safer) per year.
http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm
Chance of being killed on an airline flight = 1 in 29.4 million (best) or 1 in 1.7million (worst)

On this stats, looks like our flyers are doing things safely re deaths in parks.

Notably, no deaths in last 4+ years (likely safety improvements at demonstrations).

Re public injuries - same data applies, again, public more at risk with lightning.

(Note - I have had our house hit by lightning - awesome explosion from fuseboard, huge noise - so I'm safe now ).

Note - my stats maths might be wrong.

If anyone knows of other deaths and/or injuries (to non pilots) then please post below with link to the incident (no link then it cannot be counted as needs to be verified). Re injuries, they need to be from 250+ size helis (don't think a bruised pinky from an mCPx will hit headlines).

I will update this post with any new verified data people post below.

[McKrackin]

Look up RC planes in Hungary then.

One RC plane with a 2 meter wingspan(which is not that big for a plank).

Two killed and four seriously injured by that crash.

The cops there aren't Tampa cops for sure....The pilot was hauled off in chains.
And that was at a flying field!!

The fail safe funtion switched on at approximately 20 m height ; driven
off
by the cross-wind the model flew uncontrolled from the airfield to
several
hundred meters away into the crowd and impacted there. It broke a panic
off;
a married couple was killed, four further humans was hurt.

The police drove off the unfortunate pilot in handcuffs. Video material
was
broadcasted over a Hungarian television channel proved that he had
flown the
fastidious aerobatics program far from the spectators. Only after the
loss
of the control did the model turn in the crowds direction.

[Talesin]

Do we have a figure for how many of those were at sanctioned events/fields as compared to park fliers? I mean, I know that there's a higher concentration of helis at a sanctioned event/flying field, but you'd expect them to be perfectly safe, having taken all precautions possible. And of course, some incidents might go unreported/unpublicized at parks.

But from my reading of that list... a majority of the reported incidents appear to have happened in 'safe' environments, rather than due to parkflyer activity. And all of the fatalities listed appear to have been at sanctioned events.

[McKrackin]

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[McKrackin]

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[Epoweredrc]

Your first two links are the same one....
They are major accidents with rc craft but not as many as real car accidents, but maybe to many for the small number

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Tapatalk 2

[Talesin]

Given that he's listed as 'Instructor of pilot', I think it would be safe to assume that they were at a sanctioned field, even if it was in a park. Reading the linked article, it appears that yes, the park has an area specifically set aside for flying. So, sanctioned.

Not suggesting that flying at a park is safer, but pointing out that park-flying without a specifically demarcated flying area isn't the death-dealing wheel of mayhem that some people make it out to be. Sure, the dice get rolled more often at fields, so it's going to come up.
But making it out to sound like anyone who flies in any park not having a ban on RC models at any time is an irresponsible idiot who is going to hurt or kill someone someday is just hyperbole... and is equally as laughable as saying that flying at a field is less safe than parkflying.

[2cants]

Originally Posted by McKrackin

Two killed and four seriously injured by that crash.

Yep - got them in the PLANE database (I'm going to start researching those too - as a comparison).
Budapest: http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t257967p1/
England: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ar-misses.html
England was poor Tara Lipscombe - she was killed by a plank too.


McK, can you find me some more heli incidents?

[McKrackin]

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[McKrackin]

Originally Posted by 2cants

Yep - got them in the PLANE database (I'm going to start researching those too - as a comparison).
Budapest: http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t257967p1/
England: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ar-misses.html
England was poor Tara Lipscombe - she was killed by a plank too.


McK, can you find me some more heli incidents?

There are hundreds of them...Maybe thousands.

Just look at Youtube.

Also look at the safety forum here and at RR.

[2cants]

Originally Posted by Epoweredrc

Your first two links are the same one....
Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Tapatalk 2

Sorry about that and thanks - corrected on main post - as per link below...
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/heli...1645937/tm.htm

[2cants]

Originally Posted by Talesin

Do we have a figure for how many of those were at sanctioned events/fields as compared to park fliers?

Helifreak is an international site - so sanctioned fields might not exist in other parts of the world.

Not too fussed if sanctioned or not - just where the flying was
ie at public park, back yard (i.e. private property), club, event, office, kitchen etc (I've seen weird Sh!t in my searches).

Simply organised would suffice. That is - will people know that a RC heli will be there, or, were they casually going about there own business and wham!

I couldn't find any analysis on any other site - so this could be a first!
(One site had an awesome database on Lipo fires).

[Talesin]

Originally Posted by McKrackin

Why can't you understand that the people in the park have a right to their safety from out of control aircraft?

Flying aircraft is not a normal hazard in a park.

You have no right to introduce hazards to a park.

The people you hurt will not be involved with your hobby.

If there is no sign announcing hazardous aircraft in the area...there should be no hazardous aircraft in the area.Period.

Flying baseballs are a hazard in a park. So are frisbees. And dogs without leashes. And kites. There are no signs warning about those hazards, some of which can KILL! Just so, there are cars in the parking lot, and occasionally maintenance vehicles that drive through the grounds. Just because it isn't a common hazard doesn't mean that it doesn't belong there, or that you are relieved from your own responsibility to preserve life and limb by not walking in front of a bus just because there are no 'look out, busses here' signs.

I have every right to fly there, as long as there are no specific city or park prohibitions from RC models. Which, at the parks where I fly, there are not. I've checked. Just like any other tax-payer, I have the right to use the facilities. It is my responsibility not to injure others with my hobby. I take reasonable precautions and use a best-judgement call to determine if I can safely fly in a given location, without presenting a real risk to any bystanders. It is not your place to tell me that I cannot fly, or perform ANY other activity in an area marked for public use, with no lawful prohibitions in place to the contrary.

If my common sense and good judgement fail me, I will bear the consequences of my actions. I accept this, and use it to temper that judgement even further.
But good ****ing god, man. If you take no risks at all, how did you get out of bed this morning? Flying a model helicopter at a park isn't exactly Evel Knievel-grade stupidity, no matter how loudly and repeatedly you apparently continue to insist to the contrary.

Reasonable precautions. Good judgement. Situational awareness. Served me well for a good while now.

[McKrackin]

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[Talesin]

Wait... so if they'll go for thousands of feet, homing in precisely on the nearest person and do massive damage to anything in the area when they detonate, exactly how will being on a flying field protect anyone? A good chunk of them are within a thousand feet of a road, with people in cars driving by and minding their own business. Some are even near freeways, and could cause horrific devastation and pileups.

If you are quite that terrified, please feel free to be the guy who lobbied to get RC helis banned in your area. Or maybe buy a lottery ticket. You'll have a better chance of THAT happening.

Again. Reasonable precautions, and good judgement.

[McKrackin]

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[Talesin]

Originally Posted by McKrackin

You're hopelessly lost.
You cannot understand the simplest things.

Don't fly around people.Period.
If you do,you belong in jail.

Forget your reasonable precautions and careful flights in unpopulated areas...THOSE ARE NOT THE TIMES I'M TALKING ABOUT.

I'm talking about flying in populated areas.

You're arguing for the sake of arguing and it's beyond childish as you actually agree on the important points but just want to argue.

You are ignored.

Hey, if you want to take your ball and go home, that's fine by me.
You're convinced that there's no possible way that flying in a park with even one other person present can possibly be safe, and me arguing to the contrary is just going to embed that stance deeper, as a point of pride. It's human nature, unless otherwise cultivated.
Though when (not if) you read this, and feel like continuing an even semi-rational discussion, feel free to respond.

I am not talking about flying over football/baseball/soccer games in progress. I'm not talking about flying over fields of people having picnics, concerts, or playgrounds filled with fat toddlers.
I'm talking about reasonably using a public space that is otherwise (for the most part) abandoned. One person per hundred square feet is DEFINITELY on my 'do not fly' list (though to be fair, that's a 10'x10' box). One person per 10,000 square feet is still quite unsafe (100'x100' box). I would put my break-point at somewhere between one per 20,000 and one per 1,000,000 square feet, adjusting for grouping (a small cluster of spectators is far safer than scattered people wandering around) and relative distance from where I am flying.

Likewise, if someone is ON one of the fields just kicking a ball around? I won't be over that one, if at all possible. If there's a soccer game going on? I'll give an extra field of berth minimum, or just shut down and head home (thankfully, the one field that sees any populated use EVER is the fenced-off one at the furthest end of the area, and usually is just the local high school doing practices).

Like I said. Good judgement, reasonable precautions.

[McKrackin]

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[2cants]

Please keep posts in this area ONLY to links to real incidents.

I don't want to ask the admins to delete post hijacking this thread on conjecture and personal attacks.

DATA, DATA, DATA.

[McKrackin]

I can respect that and will pursue no further.

The admins do not delete posts though.
Sorry