Tarot 450 DFC

[shreddedpaper]

Anybody ever use these links?

http://www.hobby-wing.com/tl45188-01.html

[HRPuffnstuff]

Those look pretty sweet but I wonder if they're worth the cost plus they'd add mass to the head.

[shreddedpaper]

I think they would remove mass as you would remove the washout arms, the links and two of the swash balls to use them. Might be about the same as far as mass. With a more rigid connection from grips to swash.

[shreddedpaper]

This is the Align head, but it shows how it would look

http://www.hobby-wing.com/450dfc-mai...de-h45162.html

Not sure if it's better or just different?

[HRPuffnstuff]

Ok now that looks real nice at a completed unit. I'd like to see that unit on the scale compared to the newest tarot head. I also wonder if it would work with the blade main shaft. Somebody needs to try it out and report back on it.

[jdFin]

Seems like all these "DFC" style links could be very "quality-sensitive" in that you need very low sideways play in that bearing, and want it to stay that way over time as it wears. Those look a little narrower than some others? You guys with the Tarot heads can probably speculate as to how good these are likely to be in that regard.

[InFocus]

Here is why I'm taking a wait and see attitude towards DFC.

In this video, he removed the dampers for demonstration purposes. Remember, the feathering shaft does move in the dampers, thats why they exist.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9XAPvYUXq4[/ame]

Its my understanding the original DFC links (from Compass), has the ability to flex just a bit. If you make them too stiff, like aligns, I'd worry about stress fractures over time.

This tarot clone, who knows..

[spykez]

Just a guess. I think I like the Align design:

http://www.hobby-wing.com/450dfc-mai...de-h45162.html

The grip to swash pitch linkage is beefier.

The main shaft has to be changed, I believe this is because the headblock will sit lower.
I think this suggests that the same or some sort of mod will need to be done on a B450.

The crucial difference is the inner rim of our standard B450 swash where our pitch ball linkages mount is significantly narrower than that of a T-Rex. And we know we can't use a T-Rex swash on our heli's because of the inverted servo layout and anitrotation pin.

But the pitch linkages on this head appears to be adjustable.

So, it boils down to if the head will mount on a B450 main shaft, if not, can the shaft be modded (ideally by just shaving) to mount it. Or if the Align main shaft will work.

And if the head mounts, whether or not the swash and grip linkages will like each other to give enough throw.

I don't know if the head will work geometry wise or what mods will be necessary, especially to the main shaft. The fact that Align are suggesting their own mainshaft will need changing is interesting.

what is pictured here:

http://www.hobby-wing.com/tl45188-01.html

seem like a cheaper less adventurous experiment, but I don't see any means of linkage adjustment. The actual grip end of the linkage also does not look ..errrr.. as reassuring as the Align design. Also I think you'd want to have close to zero delta - I don't know how good these linkages are quality wise.

I wouldn't mes with these till I mess up the 2 Tarot heads I've got for my B450, imho.

Worth a go if I'd nothing better to do I suppose. I'd be interested to see if anyone gets either solution going.

But I've got an old Tarot head, it ain't bust, it works, you know the old maxim 'If it ain't bust..."

[spykez]

InFocus, saw that video, good food for thought. I dunno if that's all that significant. Some people just want a more rigid head. Compromises to be made I suppose.

I'm not at that level that I'd want a super rigid head. Happy with what I got. Not changing it till I wreck it all.

God willing that won't be for a while and people would have had more experience with this sort of head by then.

[UHx1xHuey]

At the price for the ALIGN 450DFC head, I might get it after i hear some reviews on it and what not. I like the super clean look. I'll get it after i get my FBL B450 flying nice so i dont have to make alot of adjustments. lol

[shreddedpaper]

Originally Posted by InFocus

Here is why I'm taking a wait and see attitude towards DFC.

Very informative video. I hadn't thought about the flex in the feathering shaft. But just how much flex is needed? And is the flex needed more up and down or side to side as the blades rotate?
Up and down are compromised but side to side is not...I've never really given much thought as to the purpose of dampeners, just replaced them when they wear out, assumed they were for vibration more than anything, but apparently not?

[spykez]

The dampeners allow a bit of blade flap. Tiny but it's there. If I recall correctly one of the reasons for this is to correct for assymmetry of lift in forward flight. The retreating blade does not generate as much lift this situation, and I think the dampening allow the advancing blade generating more lift to flap a bit on the feathing shaft and this change gets transmitted over to the retreating blade and there's a bit of compensation. At least I think this is the theory.

The feathering shaft is not restricted to one axis of flapping, it could flap vertically and laterally (I mean forward and back, not axially). So there could be (small) changes in the delta.

My understanding is limited to the above. It may be wrong, so someone do correct me.

But you're right, how this affects a 450 I have no idea.

Practically - all I see is this - stiffer dampers - crisper cyclic. softer dampers - spongy, more stable.

I don't speak French, so I didn't understand most of what was on the video but now that I am reflecting about what I saw, what I understand the video implies that there will be potentially less delta change with the flap.

Good, bad, noticeable, significant? Maybe FBL units will like this more?

Don't know lol....

[upankatz]

my main concern is the since the dfc head lowers the blades considerably, theres more chances of blade stikes....

[Gazey]

I have a 450DFC head being delivered tomorrow.
I am going to try an fit it to my B450 with an AR7200BX.
I'll let you know what I find. I was thinking I might take a few pics and do a sort of build or mod "how to" vid.
I recently did a conversion to my 600N and changed that from FB to FBL using tho DFC head.
I had to do a few mods to the main shaft etc to make that work but it's flying fine.
I think a conversion from FB to FBL on the B450 would be a good way to go.

[red_1030]

Originally Posted by Gazey

I have a 450DFC head being delivered tomorrow.
I am going to try an fit it to my B450 with an AR7200BX.
I'll let you know what I find. I was thinking I might take a few pics and do a sort of build or mod "how to" vid.
I recently did a conversion to my 600N and changed that from FB to FBL using tho DFC head.
I had to do a few mods to the main shaft etc to make that work but it's flying fine.
I think a conversion from FB to FBL on the B450 would be a good way to go.

Dang! I just ordered a Tarot FBL head to convert my b450 to FBL, wish i would have considered DFC.

[InFocus]

Originally Posted by red_1030

Dang! I just ordered a Tarot FBL head to convert my b450 to FBL, wish i would have considered DFC.

As mentioned, we don't know of the main shaft required for DFC would be compatible with the B450.

We know that align main shafts in general do not work on the B450.

However, we do know that a B450 3D main shaft will work with Align/Align clone FBL heads.

Unless you wanted to be first with a B450 DFC FBL, I think you chose the right setup.

[spykez]

Originally Posted by red_1030

Dang! I just ordered a Tarot FBL head to convert my b450 to FBL, wish i would have considered DFC.

Nobody knows how much modding this will need yet or if it will actually work as well as the Tarot. So, I wouldn't worry. The Align head is like 48 buck or so.

Worth a try if you want to be on the bleeding edge and have all the gear and skills to making it work.

Worst case scenario, the shaft will need serious modding. Bit of dremmeling I can do, but making another hole for the jesus bolt, I don't have the skill nor equipment, to be honest.

[red_1030]

Originally Posted by spykez

Nobody knows how much modding this will need yet or if it will actually work as well as the Tarot. So, I wouldn't worry. The Align head is like 48 buck or so.

Worth a try if you want to be on the bleeding edge and have all the gear and skills to making it work.

Worst case scenario, the shaft will need serious modding. Bit of dremmeling I can do, but making another hole for the jesus bolt, I don't have the skill nor equipment, to be honest.

Originally Posted by InFocus

As mentioned, we don't know of the main shaft required for DFC would be compatible with the B450.

We know that align main shafts in general do not work on the B450.

However, we do know that a B450 3D main shaft will work with Align/Align clone FBL heads.

Unless you wanted to be first with a B450 DFC FBL, I think you chose the right setup.

I just like the look of the lower slung blades. make no mistake, i do not have the skills to notice a difference or take advantage of any performance gain it may offer......good point on the mods required/compatability of the DFC at least I know the standard head is "drop in" so to speak

[UHx1xHuey]

Anybody try the TAROT DFC arms yet? I want them, But i donr know how good they are

[HRPuffnstuff]

The dfc arms are for the dfc head and because of the lower profile we won't know for sure what is involved to make it work on our blade until some brave soul buys one and mounts it. I think that I'm going to stick with the tarot heads I've already got for now.