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Mikado V-BAR Mikado V-Stabi/V-BAR Flybarless System Software and Hardware Support |
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02-03-2012, 10:24 PM | #1 (permalink) |
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VBar Full BlackLine v5.2 Pro questions
Hey Guys,
Trying to setup my Full Black VBar w/v2 Pro firmware. Went through the whole setup and got caught up in a couple of areas.
Have some more questions but can't remember them right now. Thanks in advance, Byter182
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02-03-2012, 10:43 PM | #2 (permalink) |
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What exactly do you mean by "Not getting the 8* on the Cyclic Tab"? Do you mean that you can't get it no matter what slider value you use? If so, which way on the slider gets you closer? I'd bet that your servo arms are too long.
As for asymmetrical collective pitch, that's somewhat normal due to the FBL links not being 90 degrees to the grip arms. If you read the text in the Collective setup tab, it will tell you what to do to remedy it, i.e. lower whichever end point give the greatest pitch.
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Alan (just call me "Bum"; no need to be so formal) HeliFreak Support Protos Max Evo 700 (Brain 2), Protos Max V2 770 (iKON 2), Synergy 516 (Brain 2), Oxy 2 (Falcon 12) Graupner MZ-32 Experience is something you gain only after you need it. I wouldn't mind social media so much if it didn't involve people. |
02-04-2012, 01:20 AM | #3 (permalink) |
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I do get the 8 degrees but I had to adjust the slider values to values out of the recommendations.
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Trex 500e Pro, i2 Head, VX1e; Trex 550e DFC w/Blue Full Vbar, 730MX 600e Pro Performace Upgrade w/Blue Mini Vbar, 750MX Logo 600se w/Silverline Vbar Pro, PowerJive120, Pyro 700-45L Yellow SAB WobblinGoblin770 w/ iKon v2, Red Mostro v1 w/ iKon v2 |
02-04-2012, 03:30 AM | #4 (permalink) |
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I have the same setup. On the 600 pro you defo need to use the inner holes on the blue horns. Even so you barely get in the range (80 to get 8ish). Servo geometry as stock give way to much gain IMO. Don't forget to change the elevator bell crank too
Regarding pitch range check that you have 0 pitch with servos arms 90 and your pitch endpoints in the radio are same (check in transmitter tab in vbar). Also check your pitch curve in your radio. If all this is done right there is no reason why you should get uneven pitch
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Ben Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251 DX8, RF6 |
02-04-2012, 07:18 AM | #5 (permalink) |
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Which way? Was the slider value too high (arms too short) or too low (arms too long).
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Alan (just call me "Bum"; no need to be so formal) HeliFreak Support Protos Max Evo 700 (Brain 2), Protos Max V2 770 (iKON 2), Synergy 516 (Brain 2), Oxy 2 (Falcon 12) Graupner MZ-32 Experience is something you gain only after you need it. I wouldn't mind social media so much if it didn't involve people. |
02-04-2012, 07:37 AM | #6 (permalink) |
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Lol knowing the 600 efl I bet his slider is way too low. In fact I just checked mine and I'm at 75 in the vbar to get 8 degrees with the inner holes. Maybe I could find a shorter swash ball to improve that.
Collective at 85 gives me 12.5 degrees
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Ben Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251 DX8, RF6 |
02-04-2012, 07:54 AM | #7 (permalink) |
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Yep, shorter arms would solve both problems.
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Alan (just call me "Bum"; no need to be so formal) HeliFreak Support Protos Max Evo 700 (Brain 2), Protos Max V2 770 (iKON 2), Synergy 516 (Brain 2), Oxy 2 (Falcon 12) Graupner MZ-32 Experience is something you gain only after you need it. I wouldn't mind social media so much if it didn't involve people. |
02-04-2012, 08:32 AM | #8 (permalink) |
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OK following my own advice I tested with a short 4.95mm ball for the inner swash where the grip rods connect to. It is a Kasama ball. DImension from ball center to shoulder is 3.5mm. Stock Align ball is 6 mm.
My slider is now 82 for 8 degrees cyclic and 85 for 12.5 degrees collective Bottom line this together with using the inner servo horn hole (18 mm) is the way to go to have vbar happy (and maybe other systems too).
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Ben Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251 DX8, RF6 |
02-04-2012, 08:38 AM | #9 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
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Alan (just call me "Bum"; no need to be so formal) HeliFreak Support Protos Max Evo 700 (Brain 2), Protos Max V2 770 (iKON 2), Synergy 516 (Brain 2), Oxy 2 (Falcon 12) Graupner MZ-32 Experience is something you gain only after you need it. I wouldn't mind social media so much if it didn't involve people. |
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02-04-2012, 08:42 AM | #10 (permalink) |
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That is correct.
Collective was already correct by using the inner hole on the servo alone (85 in vbar). However, cyclic was still low (75 as I mentionned). Changing the ball took care of that. That's why I say both mods were necesary to get an optimal resolution for vbar. You can get away with just the inner servo hole (was flying like that before and it was flying good) but if you want it optimum my humble advice is change the inner swash ball also
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Ben Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251 DX8, RF6 |
02-04-2012, 08:44 AM | #11 (permalink) |
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A value of 85 for 12.5 degrees sounds a little low to me. It's still within range, but on the low end of the scale.
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Alan (just call me "Bum"; no need to be so formal) HeliFreak Support Protos Max Evo 700 (Brain 2), Protos Max V2 770 (iKON 2), Synergy 516 (Brain 2), Oxy 2 (Falcon 12) Graupner MZ-32 Experience is something you gain only after you need it. I wouldn't mind social media so much if it didn't involve people. |
02-04-2012, 09:00 AM | #12 (permalink) |
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I agree but with the 600 it's difficult to get anything better. Shorter servo arm would cause a lot of binding on the servo case because the servo balls are long and towards the back of the servo.
Also what doesn't help is the grips arms to close to the center of the head IMHO. Was designed for the 3GX. With that said, you can still get in range as you said and the Heli flies like a dream which is what ultimately counts. Even if the numbers are not 100% perfect my understanding is that they are in a well acceptable range. My TDR has similar cyclic value (more collective though) and cannot be faulted in flight. Maybe on a smaller Heli it is more critical?
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Ben Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251 DX8, RF6 |
02-04-2012, 09:55 AM | #13 (permalink) |
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The Dubro heavy duty servo arms provide quite a bit of clearance for the balls.
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Alan (just call me "Bum"; no need to be so formal) HeliFreak Support Protos Max Evo 700 (Brain 2), Protos Max V2 770 (iKON 2), Synergy 516 (Brain 2), Oxy 2 (Falcon 12) Graupner MZ-32 Experience is something you gain only after you need it. I wouldn't mind social media so much if it didn't involve people. |
02-04-2012, 10:34 AM | #14 (permalink) |
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Do you mean those?
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD668 I fail to see how it can help in the specific case of the 600 pro. The balls are like 13mm long. If you get much shorter balls to clear the servo case the rods will get a nasty angle. Might work but will it make things better for the vbar? I feel the "problem" is the very geometry design on the 600. I use quote because it still works perfect in flight at least for me with the mods I have done What's the downside in flight to being in the lower part of the range (towards 80)? I thought optimal range was 80-100? Ok now maybe we confused the OP more
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Ben Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251 DX8, RF6 |
02-04-2012, 10:56 AM | #15 (permalink) |
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Another point after visiting vstabi.info (good read btw).
They say it is best to get consistent cyclic and collective throws. I understand it is best to have say 90 slider for cyclic and 90 for collective (90 being any number between 80 and 100 which is considered optimum range). In the case of the 600 efl pro, there is more cyclic than collective mechanical gain in stock form, whatever the servo arm. Inner holes gave me 75 cyclic and 85 collective, outer holes would be maybe 65 and 75... If we could get a shorter arm to work without binding that would get maybe 85 and 95 or whatever. My point is on the 600 if you want to get the sliders even you have to do something about cyclic alone, be it shorter inner swash balls or longer outer swash balls (which could work together with shorter servo arms and dubro horns maybe to get even closer to 100?) However I have no clue if this relationship between sliders is critical or even has any impact or if you're good to go as long as both sliders are within range although different. They don't really say what happens if you're out of range or if your sliders are radically different
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Ben Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251 DX8, RF6 |
02-04-2012, 11:26 PM | #16 (permalink) |
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Don't remember right now. Will check and let you know.
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Trex 500e Pro, i2 Head, VX1e; Trex 550e DFC w/Blue Full Vbar, 730MX 600e Pro Performace Upgrade w/Blue Mini Vbar, 750MX Logo 600se w/Silverline Vbar Pro, PowerJive120, Pyro 700-45L Yellow SAB WobblinGoblin770 w/ iKon v2, Red Mostro v1 w/ iKon v2 |
02-04-2012, 11:42 PM | #17 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
On the subject of PIT range. During initial setup of the Vbar software, in my DX8 radio I changed the PIT travel (endpoints) values as per vbar under the Transmitter tab in order to get the collective in sync. Was I supposed to approach that differently? My DX8 pitch curves were linear during setup.
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Trex 500e Pro, i2 Head, VX1e; Trex 550e DFC w/Blue Full Vbar, 730MX 600e Pro Performace Upgrade w/Blue Mini Vbar, 750MX Logo 600se w/Silverline Vbar Pro, PowerJive120, Pyro 700-45L Yellow SAB WobblinGoblin770 w/ iKon v2, Red Mostro v1 w/ iKon v2 |
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02-05-2012, 04:56 AM | #18 (permalink) | ||
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Quote:
With those changes you should see 75 in the cyclic tab for 8 degrees and the collective will be between 80-90 to get ~11.5 to 14 depending on what you want Quote:
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02-05-2012, 11:37 PM | #19 (permalink) |
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Thanks HeliBenj.... That worked. Changed all my linkage balls on the servo horns and the elevator bell crank to the inner holes and now I'm getting better collective and cyclic throws. The 8* of pitch under the vbar software cyclic tab is now attainable at around 81 slider setting and am getting 13-14 degrees of collective pitch w/a slider setting of around 82-84. I'm a happy camper as long as it's w/i the recommended ranges.
There's another hole on the elevator bell crank in the middle where the 2 main parts bend that the manual suggested using the out hole as well. Was I supposed to change that to the inner hole as well? Reason I'm asking is because my swashplate moves foward and backwards very slightly with full positive and full negative collective stick inputs. My 600 is flying a lot better now but noticed a slight drift to the right. I did a Hover Trim and I think it resolved the problem but it's not perfect. Still have to do some more tweaking. I have not set the cyclic ring yet as it sounds like a lengthy and complicated process. Don't even know where to find that. Can someone help?
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Trex 500e Pro, i2 Head, VX1e; Trex 550e DFC w/Blue Full Vbar, 730MX 600e Pro Performace Upgrade w/Blue Mini Vbar, 750MX Logo 600se w/Silverline Vbar Pro, PowerJive120, Pyro 700-45L Yellow SAB WobblinGoblin770 w/ iKon v2, Red Mostro v1 w/ iKon v2 |
02-06-2012, 12:35 AM | #20 (permalink) |
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Yes you have to change that hole in the lever too. For that you have to move the little spacer you will find from outer to inner hole. That will cure the swash travel.
Swash ring is found in the vbar setup, swash tab, expert settings (the little hat button)
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Ben Goblin 500 IKON w/ gov, Quantum 4115-1200, Hitec 5245, BLS251 DX8, RF6 |
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