Tarot ZYX Gyro & FBL Head on HK450 Pro

[nute53]

Here is a short video testing a new install of a Tarot ZYX 3 axis gyro unit & fbl head on a HK 450 Pro heli. Using digital Power HD2216 MG servos on cyclic & Power HD 3688HB servo on tail.Turnigy Typhoon 2215 outrunner motor & HK 40 amp esc & Orange RX /Dx6i Tx.
ZYX unit was set-up via Tx. stick inputs going thru the menu initially,& later tweaked a bit with the program box-including lowering both cyclic & tail deadband from default (60) to 10-this improves the servo resolution. Cyclic gains at default 40,& have the HH rate on Tx set to 60 currently. 40% expo on cyclic & 25% on tail for now.
So far after about 9 flights,has a very solid feel, & reacts quickly,& is very smooth & stable. Very impressed with how it handles wind & looking forward to more flights this season,& also converting a couple more 450's over to FBL
Mark

Tarot ZYX Gyro & FBL Head 1-7-12.wmv (5 min 49 sec)

[Busher]

That looks great, I am in the process of doing the same conversion with a trex 450 sev2 with what looks to be the same head and flybarless unit. Just waiting to get the stuff delivered.

Can you explain what the deadband setting is and what it acheives on the tarot controller, I understand what a deadband is on a servo, but wondered what it was on a controller, by the look of things you had to adjust it quite alot.
And the stick programming, how do you adjust cyclic gain and know where it is without a programming box or a PC?

Great day out flying by the look of the video.

[nute53]

Originally Posted by Busher

That looks great, I am in the process of doing the same conversion with a trex 450 sev2 with what looks to be the same head and flybarless unit. Just waiting to get the stuff delivered.

Can you explain what the deadband setting is and what it acheives on the tarot controller, I understand what a deadband is on a servo, but wondered what it was on a controller, by the look of things you had to adjust it quite alot.
And the stick programming, how do you adjust cyclic gain and know where it is without a programming box or a PC?

Great day out flying by the look of the video.

I had initially set the ZYX unit up with the Tx stick input method & going thru the menu using the led lights,then recently got the program box.I have read most of the forum threads concerning setting them up,& all have been helpful. In the program box menu,there are additional settings for RC deadband & gyro deadband. The gyro deadband default settings appear ok at (4),however reading all the posts-the RC deadband default of (60) is too high,& it's recommended to turn it down to a lower figure-I chose 10,others have lowered it down to 5. I know with the default setting of (60),my tail servo movement appeared choppy,& smoothed out when I decreased the value.I haven't studied how the deadband setting affects control response,but the majority of those pilots who have posted seem to agree the default setting of (60) is too high-it can only be lowered with a USB hub or program box as far as I know.
It would be difficult without a program box or PC to know your cyclic gain.I considered it a good investment to get one (& a USB hub too) since I will be getting more of these ZYX combo's.

[Busher]

Thanks that clears it up a bit, I have a pc usb programmer on order now, at least this will give me a chance to see what I am setting via the sticks. The on site programming box will be a good idea, and I will get hold of one if I feel it is reqd on field adjustment

[mini73]

Can just a Spectrum Satellite be used with this or do I need to use a receiver? Trying to decide if I want to get this or not but do not want more electronics on my help if I do not need to put on it.

[nute53]

Originally Posted by mini73

Can just a Spectrum Satellite be used with this or do I need to use a receiver? Trying to decide if I want to get this or not but do not want more electronics on my help if I do not need to put on it.

You will need to get a receiver- the satellite by itself will not work. However,I have been using the cheap HK "Orange" DSM2 Rx's in (3) of my 450 Pro TarotZYX fbl conversions & they work great-excellent range,& they bind to my Dx6i Tx with no problems-they work just as well as my (1) 450 Pro &Spektrum 6210 Rx w/satellite fbl conversion.

[jpedersm]

I am thinking about putting this unit in my exi pro. With the motor and the servos would there be enough power to do decent 3D with it if I learned it some day?

[nute53]

Originally Posted by jpedersm

I am thinking about putting this unit in my exi pro. With the motor and the servos would there be enough power to do decent 3D with it if I learned it some day?

I am not a very advanced pilot yet,but have progressed to doing some rolls,loops,& flips. I flew several fb HK 450 Pro's last year with many flights. After converting & testing out (4) of the Tarot ZYX gyro units & fbl head combo's,I was impressed with how they handle ,with maybe 20 or so flights so far. Doing rolls,loops & flips seemed easier with the fbl versions -they were tighter & rolls were more axial. Flips were also easier & went right over without losing altitude. Maybe it's just the way the set-ups are but I would definely recommend these units.
I have the Turnigy 2215 Typhoon outrunner motors in them,along with digital Power HD 2216MG servos on cyclic,& digital Power HD 3688HB servo on tail. Also, would highly recommend either the USB plug for PC ,or the program box-they make setting up,& adjustments at the field much easier.

[jpedersm]

Nute,

I am probably going to go the same route you went for parts. The kit I got has nothing in it so I am going to have to add everything. If I miss anything please let me know.

Motor - same as yours
esc - same as yours
Tarot ZYX gyro units & fbl head - ovcourse this also this has the gyro in it right?
receiver - same as yours
tail and cyclic servos - the same also.
blades- would I need special flybarless blades if so what works good
battery - not a clue yet

This is my first build so I am unsure if there is anything else I am going to need if so please let me know.

[nute53]

Originally Posted by jpedersm

Nute,

I am probably going to go the same route you went for parts. The kit I got has nothing in it so I am going to have to add everything. If I miss anything please let me know.

Motor - same as yours
esc - same as yours
Tarot ZYX gyro units & fbl head - ovcourse this also this has the gyro in it right?
receiver - same as yours
tail and cyclic servos - the same also.
blades- would I need special flybarless blades if so what works good
battery - not a clue yet

This is my first build so I am unsure if there is anything else I am going to need if so please let me know.

I think you'll have good luck with those items. I got a few of the Tarot ZYX gyro unit/Tarot fbl head combo's from Hobbywing a few weeks ago for ($85 plus shipping)-sometimes recently they are showing out-of-stock-probably a pretty popular item at that price. I have been using the low-cost ($7 or 8/per pair?) CF 3D blades- they worked well on my fb versions & seem to perform very nicely on the converted fbl versions. I might of got a few sets from Hobbypartz (been a while-it might of also been X-heli ). Also got (5) sets of SKY 2200mAH 11.1v 40C packs ($18 or so ea.) & (5) sets of Turnigy 2200mAH 11.1v 35C packs from Hobbypartz last year & had a lot of flights on them-maybe over 250 between them all. They are starting to get a little tired-but can still get about 5 min. flights out of them with the fbl 450's. I'll probably be getting a few new packs before Spring for the flying season.Best of luck with your project Mark

[shadco]

Thanks for your posts, encouragement, pics, and vids.

I have a used 450se v2 with

Hitec HS65MG Servos on Cyclic
JR DS3400G Tail Servo
Align RCE-BL35X esc
430L motor
Spek AR6100e rx

I ordered the new Tarot head, flybarless gyro, programmer, usb interface let night from Infinity, Items have shipped out today so I'm looking forward to getting this up in the air.

Your post is very useful to me.

Could you post more close up pics of your setup?

[Busher]

I have an almost identical setup and i am currently waiting for a bit of spare time to get the set dialed in and run through the setup proceedure. I am looking forward to the first flight.

[shadp]

Does anyone know if the 3GX USB adapter will work with the Tarot ZYX software?

[nute53]

Originally Posted by shadco

Thanks for your posts, encouragement, pics, and vids.

I have a used 450se v2 with

Hitec HS65MG Servos on Cyclic
JR DS3400G Tail Servo
Align RCE-BL35X esc
430L motor
Spek AR6100e rx

I ordered the new Tarot head, flybarless gyro, programmer, usb interface let night from Infinity, Items have shipped out today so I'm looking forward to getting this up in the air.

Your post is very useful to me.

Could you post more close up pics of your setup?

Here are some more pic's of the Tarot ZYX Gyro & fbl head conversion. All four ZYX units that I have done so far have performed well & just waiting now for good weather to really fine-tune them.(3) are using "Orange" DSM2 Rx's,(1) is using a Spekrum AR6210 Rx. All have 40amp HK esc's,Turnigy Typhoon 2215 motors,& Power HD 3688 HB tail servos.I am using a few different makes of cyclic servos-mostly digital (on 3 set-ups),& analog servo's on (1 setup).The heli's all started out as HK 450Pro's-some have been upgraded with Align parts,including tail slider,main shafts,bearings,swash,& main gears.
If using analog servo's on cyclic-you may have to lower your cyclic gain on the ZYX gyro. I have one heli set up with low-cost analog T-Pro MG90S servo's on cyclic,& got bad ocillations/shaking testing it out at the default gain settings. After I lowered them (with the program box), it flew fine-just like the digital servo versions.
There are several good threads on RC Groups & HF for this unit,& setting them up,along with some individuals giving their settings. I think it is a matter of starting with the default settings,& tweaking them to your liking & equipment used.

[fixed1313]

Great info, I am thinking about an EXI Pro with this same set up as my first 450. Been following the posts on this controller both here and rc groups, sounds like it is well worth the money.

[beautifulsmall]

Hi, im just waiting to start building a HK450 with a GA250 mems gyro, im interested in the gyro location in relation to the turn axis which applies to in ZYX even more than the single tail hold.
The mems rotational rate gyros have a small error related to the linear acceleration in each axis so the location of the gyro (radius from turn axix) can affect accuracy, but ive no idea to what extent.
Just wondering if anyone has tried locating the gyro on an axis of rotation, as the docs with the GA250 and the zyx online manual dont suggest alignment with rotational centeres of gravity.
Im going to try the GA250 directly under the main shaft cog and im wondering if the ZYX would do well there also.
come on Hobbyking DE , 3 days fingers tapping.

[nute53]

Originally Posted by fixed1313

Great info, I am thinking about an EXI Pro with this same set up as my first 450. Been following the posts on this controller both here and rc groups, sounds like it is well worth the money.

These are my 1st. fbl units,but I have to say I am very pleased with how they fly-all four 450 conversions fly very similiar-in fact I have all four in the same slot on my Dx6i-since the individual settings can be changed in each ZYX unit .My Tx settings include the recommended 40% expo on pitch/roll & 25% on tail. Dual rates are 70/100 on cyclic. My Tx gyro heading hold setting is at (60) .
As long as the correct setup procedure is followed,everything moves in the right direction,throws & endpoints are right,& heli's are mechanically ok-they seem to fly great. On all my initial test flights,I put training gear back on just as a precaution,but they were soon removed after everything checked out.
There is some very minor tail bounce when the tail is turned fast -but I think when the weather improves & I can get them out to the field again-that can be adjusted out. It's really nice to have the program box at the flying site so you can try different settings & see how they work
Mark

[hoelshot]

Is there anyway to eliminate the choppiness of the tail servo using just the Tx and no programming box?

Thanks

[nute53]

Originally Posted by hoelshot

Is there anyway to eliminate the choppiness of the tail servo using just the Tx and no programming box?

Thanks

Before I got the program box,I had set up one of my ZYX gyro's via Tx inputs,ect. & while it flew ok,I couldn't get rid of the "choppy" tail until I had the box to lower the rc deadband setting-I had already put in 25% expo on the TX for the tail too .
By default in 3D mode -it was (60) & I lowered it to (10). It seemed to smooth the tail servo out quite a bit (testing in rate mode) . There have been both pro's & con's on lowering that setting,but it helped on all four of my set-up's on the 450's. The program box is a good investment & makes adjusting at the field so much easier.The USB plug is nice to have also,just to check settings & to keep a file to know your good settings,or if in the future they offer a firmware update-it is fairly inexpensive at around $5-$8. It would also be good at the field with a small laptop or netbook.

[hoelshot]

Where can I find one for $5-$8?

Thanks